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  • Dec. 7, 1889
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The Freemason's Chronicle, Dec. 7, 1889: Page 5

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    Article MASONIC ANTIQUITY; ← Page 2 of 2
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Masonic Antiquity;

lord ' s son , having become a working Masnn and dwelling soven years with his Master , hys craft to learne . " Our Bro . Gould , ho \ v 3 ver , deduced from tho fact of the attachment of the poem called " Urbanitatis" to the Ma 3 o : i : c

Poem , that there must have existed at that time a Masonic Guild composed wholly of non-operatives , or Speculative Masons , for whose instruction in good behaviour the " Urbanitatis " Poem was tacked on to tho Regius Poem ,

lie says : — " The conolusion , therefore , to which it seems to un wo ; iro directed by the evidence is , that the peraona to whom tlio u » xt « f t * vj Etgius MS . wa 3 sung or recited were a guild or fraternity from whom all but the memory or traditions of it 3 auoient trade ha 1 dopartod . "

In short , becauso the " Urbanitatis " Poem was tacked on to the Masonic Poem , Bro . Gould came to tho conclusion that a " Speculative Lodge " existed in the 15 th century . But according to my way of reasoning , I think the case was directly the reverse . I have no doubt that tho author of

tho " Urbanitatis " designed his poem for the instruction of tho most rude , ill behaved , and dirtiest class in tho community , who had not sense enough to take off a hat in the presence of a nobleman , who were accustomed to spit and

snot when in company with their betters , who used to clutch the best bit when eating with others from the same tablo , who used to wipe their noses with the table cloth , & c , & o . Hence , if the author of the Masonic Poem was not sure that a large portion , at least , of the Masons of his

day were not equally dirty , rude and ill-mannered with those above described , he would never have insulted the Masonic fraternity by tacking on the Poem " Urbanitatis " to his own . The fact that he did so proves to my mind conclusively that the Regius Poem was intended for the

instruction of a Guild , composed , in a large measuro at least , of anything but well behaved gentlemen . And with regard to the question which puzzled Mr . Furnival , about the allusion of the Masonic poet to the " old

time written , " that " some times great Lords blood took this gemetry , & c . " The poet did not say that in the 15 th century thoro were among Masons members who could bo'ist

of having descended from great lords , but refers to 15 old time written . " Hence , ho doubtless referred to his own invention about tho sons of the Egyptian nobility , whom Euclid taught " gemetry , " and that is all he meant .

In Bro . Gould's lecture , ab Glasgow , he produced iresh arguments in favour of his new theory . He said : —

" But a papor by Profrasor Hajtor Lewis— ' Scotch . Masons' marks compared with those of other countries '—read before tho British A . roh £ oologieal Association , at its recent session in Glasgow , could bo deemed by many persons to have gone a long way towards reinstating the old belief or tradition . "

Here follows a long string of conjectures , inferences , and so forth , but which may be reduced to two points . First , that in the 13 th century was introduced , with the early pointed style of Gothic , an entirely different method of

finishing the surface , and that the source of this method was apparently from the East . Second , that Masons ' marks do not appear to have been commonly used in Europe before late in the twelfth century .

But , in the first place , I heard from an eye witness that the stones of the old Roman aqueducts have Masons' marks on thorn ; and second , what has the " Pointed Style" and Masons' marks to do with Soeculative Masonry ? I have

asked two stonecutters , a German and an Englishman , why they marked the stone they wrought , and the answers in both cases were , " that in case of any fault the overseer tnisht know whoso work it was . " If Bro . Lewis would

take the trouble to question any stonecutter about making marks on the stones , he would receive the same answer I received . Now , I want Bro . Lewis , to inform me by what method of reasoning ho came to tho conclusion that

thousands of years ago Masons had different reasons for marking their stone than Masons to-day have ? But that is not all . In the 13 th century the " Pointed Style " was known iu Germany , aud German stonecutters also mado

marks on the stones m the 13 th century . But for all that Bro . Speth has proved that the German Masons knew nothing about secret sigus , words , secret initiation , or any

kind of Speculative Masonry . Hence , Masons' marks furnish no evidence of the existence of Speculative Masonry before the year 1717 .

The last argument ( as far as I can understand ) of Bro . Gould is based upon a supposition that the three degrees after 1717 were received without a murmur , hence the said degrees must have been inherited from

olden times , & c . But in the first p lace , it is well known

Masonic Antiquity;

that the Grand Lodge would not allow Lodges to comer the 2 nd and 3 rd degrees before 1725 , hence if the three desrrees had beon an old " inheritance , " tho Lodges would

never have submitted to being deprived of their time immemorial privilege for a moment . Second , when the Grand Lodge repealed that law in 1725 but very few Lodges availed themselves of it . This was one of the

arguments of Bro . Gould in the Keystone of 1886 , he stated that even as late as 1752 there was still a Lodge in England whose W . M . was only a Fellow Craft . And third , if the mere fact ( supposing it to be a fact ) , that

because there was no murmur against the three degroea after 1717 , is to be received as a proof that the three degrees were an old inheritance , then Bro . MacCalla may with equal reason prove that Templarism is an old

inheritance ; Bro . Yarker may prove that Memphisism is an old inheritance ; Bro . Edwin A . Sherman may prove that Uosy Orossism was inherited from Robert Bruce , and

other members of that " school" ( as Bro . Gould styled them ) may prove that every moonshine Rite or Degree that has been palmed off on credulous Masons from the beginning , up or doivn , to the inventiou of the Mystic

Shrine and the American Masonic something known as " No . 101 , " are all old inheritances . To which I may add Hiram Abiff ' s monument , and St . John the Evangelist ' s Grand Mastership , when upwards of ninety years of age , If , therefore , my good Bro . Gould wants to convert us to his new embraced belief he must furnish better arguments than he yet has done ; and until then I must

continue to believe that neither " Speculative Masonry " nor Masonic Degrees existed before 1717 . BOSTON , U . S . 28 th October 1889 .

Obituary.

Obituary .

BROTHER JOHN LAVER , P . M . 211 .

BY the sudden death of this highly respected brother the St . Michael ' s Lodge , No . 211 , has lost another of its most devoted members , while the Craft in him will miss one of its most consistent supporters . Brother Layer died on Thursday , the 28 th ultimo , at bis residence , Sutherland

Gardens , Paddington . He was initiated in the St . M * chael's Lodge , in the year 1855 , at its then headquarters , the Blue Boar , High Holborn . He filled tho chair of No . 211 in the year 1860 , and it was during his year that

the St . Michael's Lodge removed to the hostelry where it now meets , —the Albion , Aldersgate Street . Bro . John Laver , since the death of his old comrade Brother Charles Greenwood , has filled the position of Father of his Lodge .

He was held in the highest esteem by his brother members , who invariably gave full consideration to any suggestion he thought fit to offer . His funeral took place on Wednesday , at the Old Churchyard , Walthamstow , in a family

grave that contains the remains of his father . Amongst those who attended to pay a last tribute of affection to a worthy man were his son , Mr . Francis Laver , Messrs . R . H . Aveling and Charles Capper ( sons-in-law ) , Mr . R .

Sedgwick ( executor ) . Mr . H . Stephens ( solicitor ) , Mr . F . Harvey and Mr . Robert Davey ( representing Messrs . Peters and Sons , the firm with which our deceased brother was associated ) . St . Michael ' s Lodge was represented by its W . M . Bro . Henry Lindtield , and by Bros . Alfred Green

P . M . ( Treasurer ) and W . W . Morgan P . M . Several of our late Bro . Laver's tenants ( he hold some house property at Walthamstow ) also were in attendance to pay their last respects to a kind and considerate landlord .

BRO . WILLIAM BALL .

THE remains of the late Bro . Ball , of tho Stockwell Lodge and Chapter , No . 1339 , were interred on Tuesday last , the 3 rd inst ., at Kensal Green ( the oldest Cemetery around London ) , In addition to the relatives of the deceased , there were present Bros . A . G . Boswell W . M ., H . Moss P . M ., E . H . Minns S . W ., Frances P . P . G . D . Surrey P . M .

Secretary , and several other members of tho Lodge . At the close of tho funeral service , the family and Ma 3 onic brethren gathered round the grave and dropped their sprigs of acacia on the coffin . One brother was the bearer of a Masonic wreath . The courso of the hi to Bro . Bill's life was conducted on true Masonic principles .

“The Freemason's Chronicle: 1889-12-07, Page 5” Masonic Periodicals Online, Library and Museum of Freemasonry, 30 June 2025, django:8000/periodicals/fcn/issues/fcn_07121889/page/5/.
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LODGE HISTORIES. Article 1
UNITED GRAND LODGE. Article 2
Untitled Article 3
MASONIC ANTIQUITY; Article 4
Obituary. Article 5
ROYAL ARCH. Article 6
MARK MASONRY. Article 6
MARRIAGE. Article 6
THE THEATRES, &c. Article 6
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P.G. LODGE OF EAST LANCASHIRE. Article 8
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DIARY FOR THE WEEK. Article 11
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LIST OF RARE AND VALUABLE WORKS ON FREEMASONRY Article 14
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Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.

Masonic Antiquity;

lord ' s son , having become a working Masnn and dwelling soven years with his Master , hys craft to learne . " Our Bro . Gould , ho \ v 3 ver , deduced from tho fact of the attachment of the poem called " Urbanitatis" to the Ma 3 o : i : c

Poem , that there must have existed at that time a Masonic Guild composed wholly of non-operatives , or Speculative Masons , for whose instruction in good behaviour the " Urbanitatis " Poem was tacked on to tho Regius Poem ,

lie says : — " The conolusion , therefore , to which it seems to un wo ; iro directed by the evidence is , that the peraona to whom tlio u » xt « f t * vj Etgius MS . wa 3 sung or recited were a guild or fraternity from whom all but the memory or traditions of it 3 auoient trade ha 1 dopartod . "

In short , becauso the " Urbanitatis " Poem was tacked on to the Masonic Poem , Bro . Gould came to tho conclusion that a " Speculative Lodge " existed in the 15 th century . But according to my way of reasoning , I think the case was directly the reverse . I have no doubt that tho author of

tho " Urbanitatis " designed his poem for the instruction of tho most rude , ill behaved , and dirtiest class in tho community , who had not sense enough to take off a hat in the presence of a nobleman , who were accustomed to spit and

snot when in company with their betters , who used to clutch the best bit when eating with others from the same tablo , who used to wipe their noses with the table cloth , & c , & o . Hence , if the author of the Masonic Poem was not sure that a large portion , at least , of the Masons of his

day were not equally dirty , rude and ill-mannered with those above described , he would never have insulted the Masonic fraternity by tacking on the Poem " Urbanitatis " to his own . The fact that he did so proves to my mind conclusively that the Regius Poem was intended for the

instruction of a Guild , composed , in a large measuro at least , of anything but well behaved gentlemen . And with regard to the question which puzzled Mr . Furnival , about the allusion of the Masonic poet to the " old

time written , " that " some times great Lords blood took this gemetry , & c . " The poet did not say that in the 15 th century thoro were among Masons members who could bo'ist

of having descended from great lords , but refers to 15 old time written . " Hence , ho doubtless referred to his own invention about tho sons of the Egyptian nobility , whom Euclid taught " gemetry , " and that is all he meant .

In Bro . Gould's lecture , ab Glasgow , he produced iresh arguments in favour of his new theory . He said : —

" But a papor by Profrasor Hajtor Lewis— ' Scotch . Masons' marks compared with those of other countries '—read before tho British A . roh £ oologieal Association , at its recent session in Glasgow , could bo deemed by many persons to have gone a long way towards reinstating the old belief or tradition . "

Here follows a long string of conjectures , inferences , and so forth , but which may be reduced to two points . First , that in the 13 th century was introduced , with the early pointed style of Gothic , an entirely different method of

finishing the surface , and that the source of this method was apparently from the East . Second , that Masons ' marks do not appear to have been commonly used in Europe before late in the twelfth century .

But , in the first place , I heard from an eye witness that the stones of the old Roman aqueducts have Masons' marks on thorn ; and second , what has the " Pointed Style" and Masons' marks to do with Soeculative Masonry ? I have

asked two stonecutters , a German and an Englishman , why they marked the stone they wrought , and the answers in both cases were , " that in case of any fault the overseer tnisht know whoso work it was . " If Bro . Lewis would

take the trouble to question any stonecutter about making marks on the stones , he would receive the same answer I received . Now , I want Bro . Lewis , to inform me by what method of reasoning ho came to tho conclusion that

thousands of years ago Masons had different reasons for marking their stone than Masons to-day have ? But that is not all . In the 13 th century the " Pointed Style " was known iu Germany , aud German stonecutters also mado

marks on the stones m the 13 th century . But for all that Bro . Speth has proved that the German Masons knew nothing about secret sigus , words , secret initiation , or any

kind of Speculative Masonry . Hence , Masons' marks furnish no evidence of the existence of Speculative Masonry before the year 1717 .

The last argument ( as far as I can understand ) of Bro . Gould is based upon a supposition that the three degrees after 1717 were received without a murmur , hence the said degrees must have been inherited from

olden times , & c . But in the first p lace , it is well known

Masonic Antiquity;

that the Grand Lodge would not allow Lodges to comer the 2 nd and 3 rd degrees before 1725 , hence if the three desrrees had beon an old " inheritance , " tho Lodges would

never have submitted to being deprived of their time immemorial privilege for a moment . Second , when the Grand Lodge repealed that law in 1725 but very few Lodges availed themselves of it . This was one of the

arguments of Bro . Gould in the Keystone of 1886 , he stated that even as late as 1752 there was still a Lodge in England whose W . M . was only a Fellow Craft . And third , if the mere fact ( supposing it to be a fact ) , that

because there was no murmur against the three degroea after 1717 , is to be received as a proof that the three degrees were an old inheritance , then Bro . MacCalla may with equal reason prove that Templarism is an old

inheritance ; Bro . Yarker may prove that Memphisism is an old inheritance ; Bro . Edwin A . Sherman may prove that Uosy Orossism was inherited from Robert Bruce , and

other members of that " school" ( as Bro . Gould styled them ) may prove that every moonshine Rite or Degree that has been palmed off on credulous Masons from the beginning , up or doivn , to the inventiou of the Mystic

Shrine and the American Masonic something known as " No . 101 , " are all old inheritances . To which I may add Hiram Abiff ' s monument , and St . John the Evangelist ' s Grand Mastership , when upwards of ninety years of age , If , therefore , my good Bro . Gould wants to convert us to his new embraced belief he must furnish better arguments than he yet has done ; and until then I must

continue to believe that neither " Speculative Masonry " nor Masonic Degrees existed before 1717 . BOSTON , U . S . 28 th October 1889 .

Obituary.

Obituary .

BROTHER JOHN LAVER , P . M . 211 .

BY the sudden death of this highly respected brother the St . Michael ' s Lodge , No . 211 , has lost another of its most devoted members , while the Craft in him will miss one of its most consistent supporters . Brother Layer died on Thursday , the 28 th ultimo , at bis residence , Sutherland

Gardens , Paddington . He was initiated in the St . M * chael's Lodge , in the year 1855 , at its then headquarters , the Blue Boar , High Holborn . He filled tho chair of No . 211 in the year 1860 , and it was during his year that

the St . Michael's Lodge removed to the hostelry where it now meets , —the Albion , Aldersgate Street . Bro . John Laver , since the death of his old comrade Brother Charles Greenwood , has filled the position of Father of his Lodge .

He was held in the highest esteem by his brother members , who invariably gave full consideration to any suggestion he thought fit to offer . His funeral took place on Wednesday , at the Old Churchyard , Walthamstow , in a family

grave that contains the remains of his father . Amongst those who attended to pay a last tribute of affection to a worthy man were his son , Mr . Francis Laver , Messrs . R . H . Aveling and Charles Capper ( sons-in-law ) , Mr . R .

Sedgwick ( executor ) . Mr . H . Stephens ( solicitor ) , Mr . F . Harvey and Mr . Robert Davey ( representing Messrs . Peters and Sons , the firm with which our deceased brother was associated ) . St . Michael ' s Lodge was represented by its W . M . Bro . Henry Lindtield , and by Bros . Alfred Green

P . M . ( Treasurer ) and W . W . Morgan P . M . Several of our late Bro . Laver's tenants ( he hold some house property at Walthamstow ) also were in attendance to pay their last respects to a kind and considerate landlord .

BRO . WILLIAM BALL .

THE remains of the late Bro . Ball , of tho Stockwell Lodge and Chapter , No . 1339 , were interred on Tuesday last , the 3 rd inst ., at Kensal Green ( the oldest Cemetery around London ) , In addition to the relatives of the deceased , there were present Bros . A . G . Boswell W . M ., H . Moss P . M ., E . H . Minns S . W ., Frances P . P . G . D . Surrey P . M .

Secretary , and several other members of tho Lodge . At the close of tho funeral service , the family and Ma 3 onic brethren gathered round the grave and dropped their sprigs of acacia on the coffin . One brother was the bearer of a Masonic wreath . The courso of the hi to Bro . Bill's life was conducted on true Masonic principles .

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