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    Article CORRESPONDENCE. Page 1 of 1
    Article CORRESPONDENCE. Page 1 of 1
Page 5

Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.

Correspondence.

CORRESPONDENCE .

We do not hold , ourselves responsible for the opinions of our Cor . respondents . We cannot undertake to return rejected communications . All Letters must bear the name and address of the Writer , not necessarily for publication , but as a guarantee of good faith .

ROYAL MASONIC INSTITUTION FOR BOYS .

To the Editor of THE FREEMASON ' CHRONICLE . Office : 6 Freemasous' Hall , Great Queen Street , London , W . C . 18 th July 1877 .

DEAR SIR AND BROTHER , —At tho final meeting of the Board of Stewards for the Festival as above , held this afternoon , I had the gratification to announce that the result of the kind efforts of 225 Stewards was the addition to our funds of £ 13 , 535 12 s 6 d . Two lists not received .

With grateful appreciation , I am , yours faithfully and fraternally , FREDERICK BINCKES

HAMPSHIRE AND THE BOYS' SCHOOL .

To the Kditw O / T HE FREEMASON ' S CHRONICLE . SIR , —Your analysis of the recent subscription list is calculated to convey a wrong impression , which I have no doubt you will obligingly correct . Among tho " eight" Lodges contributing from Hampshire you include " one Southampton ( 391 ) . " The Deputy Provincial Grand Master being a member of the " Southampton "

Lodge , may have recorded himself as representing that Lodge , because , among other reasons , it at once identified the town with the cause . But the mother Lodge in that town of the Worshipful brother , of which he is a P . M . and a subscribing member ( the "Royal Gloucester" ) , contributed 25 guineas to his list , its members

numbering about 80 ; the " Peace and Harmony , comprising nearly 200 members , contributed also 25 guineas ; and the Southampton , with about 50 members , 10 guineas . Thanking you by anticipation for this correction , I am , fraternally yours , A SOUTHAMPTON MASON .

REGALIA . To the Editor of THE FREEMASON ' S CHRONICLE . DEAR SIR AND BROTHER , —I regret that a press of engagements bas prevented my replying earlier to the letter of " Q . " in yonr issue of 7 th July . First , let me thank him for his able reply—perhaps tho best that conld be made under the circumstances . I still think that

the whole point turns on the interpretation of the word consistent ; otherwise why was that word inserted at all iu the laws of ttegalia ? According to the argument of " Q ., " the word " appertain" would have been sufficient and explicit . Neither do I think that " Q . " can fairly be entitled to transposo the words of the law as he does thus . The Constitutions sav : —

" No jewel , & c , shall be worn , & c , which shall not appertain to , or be consistent with , those degrees which are recognised , & o . " " Q . " says that this must be interpreted : — "No jewel pertaining to , or consistent with , any unrecognised degree may legally be worn , & c . " I submit that the two readings are mightily difFerent . In tho last part of his letter " Q . " is amusing , but scarcely logical ,

as he declares , since accordiug to his own showing the word " clothing" is used in a technical sense , as referring to sashes aud aprons , just as "jewel" must be understood to mean a medal or badge . However , it is in the second of the laws regarding Regalia that the real > oint at issue is to be found , and in the meaning to be attributed to the word " consistent . " Yours fraternally , R . S . Y . CS .

POWERS'AND PRIVILEGES OL A MASTER

To the Editor of THE FREEMASON ' CHRONICLE . DEAR SIR AND BROTHER , — " Primus ( and Solus ) , " if he will pardon me the liberty iu saying so , is a genial fellow , who enters heard } into the spirit of a little friendly bauter , and 1 trust he will allow me , in the spirit , if not literally , to shake him by the baud . I trust . further , that he will permit me , with all respect for his usuall )

keen judgment , to point out that " VV . M . Regispcns and I are m . more one and the same person than aro " Primus ( and Solus ) " ami '' Comns . " He may be an acquaintance of mine , and so maj " Primus , " for aught I know to the contrary , as I know very man ; . Craftsmen , but until his true name is revealed , I am as much in tbt

dark as to the personality of " VV . M . Regispous " as " Primus " u about that of the Man in the Moon—if there be such an individual . AH to the point at issue between " VV . M . Kegispons" and myself on the one hand , and " Primus ( and Solus ) " on the other , I faucy it is more apparent than real . I did not understand " VV . M . Uegispons" atsuggesting that a Master should invite a Warden or other qualified

Correspondence.

brother to fulfil his duties for him . I considered he was pleased with the ruling of the Grand Registrar , because it gave a W . M . the opportunity of allowing other than P . M . ' s , who already know the work , to discharge thoso functions of the chair whioh they may reasonably look forward to discharging at some future time . I pictured to myself the case of a W . M . ivho was well enough to

attend the Lodge and occupy the chair , yet not well enough to do all the business of the evening " . Such being the case , I thonght it would be a good thing that the W . M ., if so minded , should give ono of his Wardens the chance of working one of the ceremonies . I feel that I am taking somewhat of a liberty when I interpret " W . M . Regispons ' s " letter in my own fashion , but this was the kind of idea

it seemed tome he had in his mind when I read it . If I understand him rightly , " Primus ( aud Solus' ) " objection is to a W . M . regularly having his work done by deputy , and so is well founded ; bnt the whole thing , from beginning to end , is exceptional . If , says the Grand Registrar , a W . M . momentarily feels himself unequal to the task of fulfilling his duties , then e may invite any qualified brother

to speak the words for him . If this ruling is correct , says ' W . M . Keifispons , " so much the better , for a Warden or other brother who hopes some day or ether to fill the chair may thus obtain a practical kuowleJue of its duties . And this is the view of your humble servant and brother . I fully recognise the wisdom of the suggestion that a W . M . should do his own work , bnt in the case I have already suggested , or

in that of his having to perform the same ceremony more than two or three times the same evening , I do not think he would be " shirking his duty " if he allowed some one else the opportunity of gaining a little pracical insight into tho work . I am afraid I have trespassed on yonr valuable space , and , therefore , without further com . ment , subscribe myself , Faithfully and fraternally yours , COM us ,

CHEVALIER RAMSAY AND THE ROYAL ARCH

To the Editor of THE FREEMASON S CHRONICLE . DEAR SIR AND BROTHER , —I find in the Gentleman ' s Magazine , page 219 , 1739 , the following interesting news from Rome : — " There was lately burnt here , with great solemnity , by order of the Inquisition , a piece in French , written by Chevalier Ramsay ( author of the Travels of Cyrus ) , an apologetical and historical

relation of the secrets of Freemasons , printed at Dublin , by Patrick Odonoko . This was published at Paris , in answer to a pretended catechism printed there by order of the Lieutenant de Police . " I called attention to above paragraph in the November number of the Canadian News , 1876 . I have also written to Bro . Hughan , to endeavour to hunt up the Dublin pamphlet , and to Bro . Findel , at

Leipsic , to try and find the French edition , but so far thev have met with no success . A few days since , I found in the Freemasons ' Quarterly Review , 1851 , in a note to the Revelations of a Square , by Dr . Oliver , as follows : — " An apolosry for the Free and Accepted Masons , occasioned by their persecution in the Canton of Berno , with the present state of

Masonry in Germany , Italy , France , Flanders , and Holland . By J . G . D . M . F . M . Patrick Odnroko , Dublin , 1739 . " The niinio of the Dublin printer is evidently misspelt in one of the above paragraphs , but in other respects there is no antagonism between theuij . the correspondent from Rome described the French edition of the pamphlet , and Dr . Oliver transcribed the title page of

tho Dublin edition , and did not evidently know that Ramsay was its author , and that a French edition was burned in Rome in 1739 , & c . Now , Dr . Oliver must either have owned a copy of that pamphlet , or he transcribed its title page from a copy in the Museum , or from one in possession of the late Bro . Spencer ; anyhow , there must still be a copy in existence , and I should much like to know some more about

its contents ; for , in the first placo , it may throw new light on the Masonic history of that period ; and , second , it may enlighten us about the movements of Ramsay in those days , which may in its turn throw some light on the origin of the Royal Arch Degree . Dr . Oliver informs us , first , that Ramsay lived in England from 17-10 to 1741 . Second , that the first mention or allusion to the

Royal Arch occurred in 1710 . Aud third , that Ramsay first offered to sell his R . A . Degree to the Grand Lodge of England ; bnt , as the Grand Lodge would have nothing to do with it , ho sold or gave it to the Ancients . Now , these statements may be true : but as our Doctor gave no authority whence he derived that information , they may be untrue . One thing is certain , viz ., that the R . A . Degree

was worked in Dublin in 1741 ; for this information we are indebted to Bro . Hughan ' s discovery of the pamphlet by Fifield Dassigni , Dublin , 1741 . Now , if the Dublin pamphlet of 1739 , by Odoroko , or Odonoko , was really written by Rsvmsav , it would support the theory that Ramsay visted Ireland in 1739 , and he may also have visited Eng . land in 1740 , as stated by Bro . Oiver , and I may fnrther suggest

' . hat if Ramsay did visit any part of England or Ireland about that ime , it was not for the purpose of disposing of his Masouic bantling , iiut for political purposes ; his nv-ii'i object must have been to confer with the partiz : ins of the Pretender , and in that case , he may havo isited Ireland before Enjxland , and while he was in Dahlia ho irobably published the pamphlet , ending with six mysterious letters , md he may have left there his new Royal Arch Degreo at the same

oime . Honce , a knowledge of the contents of the 1739 pamphlet nay help to solve that puzzle . ^ But , anyhow , a publication of that early Masonic period must be > f some interest to Masonic inquirers , and if a copy of it is still ireseived , it should bo either reprinted in pamphlet form or in a Vlasonic periodical . I h > pe and trnst therefore that the above hints vill not be in vain . Perhaps Bro . W . Spencer knows something tboat it . Fraternally and respectfully your ? , Boston , U . S ., 6 th July 1877 , JACOB NOBIOK ,

“The Freemason's Chronicle: 1877-07-21, Page 5” Masonic Periodicals Online, Library and Museum of Freemasonry, 31 May 2025, django:8000/periodicals/fcn/issues/fcn_21071877/page/5/.
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Title Category Page
OF PROPOSING CANDIDATES. Article 1
MASONIC PORTRAITS. (No. 42.) Article 2
SELF-SUPPORTING HOSPITALS FOR THE WORKING CLASSES. Article 3
PROVINCIAL GRAND MARK LODGE OF MIDDLESEX AND SURREY. Article 4
KEMEYS TYNTE PRECEPTORY Article 4
CORRESPONDENCE. Article 5
OPENING OF THE NEW MASONIC HALL IN SHEFFIELD. Article 6
Old Warrants. Article 7
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OUR WEEKLY BUDGET Article 8
NEW ZEALAND. Article 10
DEDICATION OF THE MASONIC HALL ONEHUNGA. Article 10
PROVINCIAL GRAND LODGE, S.C Article 11
SUMMER ENTERTAINMENT AT THE ROYAL MASONIC BENEVOLENT INSTITUTION. Article 11
CONSECRATION OF BOTHWELL CHAPTER, No. 170. Article 11
DIARY FOR THE WEEK. Article 12
NOTICES OF MEETINGS. Article 12
PERIODICAL LITERATURE Article 14
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Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.

Correspondence.

CORRESPONDENCE .

We do not hold , ourselves responsible for the opinions of our Cor . respondents . We cannot undertake to return rejected communications . All Letters must bear the name and address of the Writer , not necessarily for publication , but as a guarantee of good faith .

ROYAL MASONIC INSTITUTION FOR BOYS .

To the Editor of THE FREEMASON ' CHRONICLE . Office : 6 Freemasous' Hall , Great Queen Street , London , W . C . 18 th July 1877 .

DEAR SIR AND BROTHER , —At tho final meeting of the Board of Stewards for the Festival as above , held this afternoon , I had the gratification to announce that the result of the kind efforts of 225 Stewards was the addition to our funds of £ 13 , 535 12 s 6 d . Two lists not received .

With grateful appreciation , I am , yours faithfully and fraternally , FREDERICK BINCKES

HAMPSHIRE AND THE BOYS' SCHOOL .

To the Kditw O / T HE FREEMASON ' S CHRONICLE . SIR , —Your analysis of the recent subscription list is calculated to convey a wrong impression , which I have no doubt you will obligingly correct . Among tho " eight" Lodges contributing from Hampshire you include " one Southampton ( 391 ) . " The Deputy Provincial Grand Master being a member of the " Southampton "

Lodge , may have recorded himself as representing that Lodge , because , among other reasons , it at once identified the town with the cause . But the mother Lodge in that town of the Worshipful brother , of which he is a P . M . and a subscribing member ( the "Royal Gloucester" ) , contributed 25 guineas to his list , its members

numbering about 80 ; the " Peace and Harmony , comprising nearly 200 members , contributed also 25 guineas ; and the Southampton , with about 50 members , 10 guineas . Thanking you by anticipation for this correction , I am , fraternally yours , A SOUTHAMPTON MASON .

REGALIA . To the Editor of THE FREEMASON ' S CHRONICLE . DEAR SIR AND BROTHER , —I regret that a press of engagements bas prevented my replying earlier to the letter of " Q . " in yonr issue of 7 th July . First , let me thank him for his able reply—perhaps tho best that conld be made under the circumstances . I still think that

the whole point turns on the interpretation of the word consistent ; otherwise why was that word inserted at all iu the laws of ttegalia ? According to the argument of " Q ., " the word " appertain" would have been sufficient and explicit . Neither do I think that " Q . " can fairly be entitled to transposo the words of the law as he does thus . The Constitutions sav : —

" No jewel , & c , shall be worn , & c , which shall not appertain to , or be consistent with , those degrees which are recognised , & o . " " Q . " says that this must be interpreted : — "No jewel pertaining to , or consistent with , any unrecognised degree may legally be worn , & c . " I submit that the two readings are mightily difFerent . In tho last part of his letter " Q . " is amusing , but scarcely logical ,

as he declares , since accordiug to his own showing the word " clothing" is used in a technical sense , as referring to sashes aud aprons , just as "jewel" must be understood to mean a medal or badge . However , it is in the second of the laws regarding Regalia that the real > oint at issue is to be found , and in the meaning to be attributed to the word " consistent . " Yours fraternally , R . S . Y . CS .

POWERS'AND PRIVILEGES OL A MASTER

To the Editor of THE FREEMASON ' CHRONICLE . DEAR SIR AND BROTHER , — " Primus ( and Solus ) , " if he will pardon me the liberty iu saying so , is a genial fellow , who enters heard } into the spirit of a little friendly bauter , and 1 trust he will allow me , in the spirit , if not literally , to shake him by the baud . I trust . further , that he will permit me , with all respect for his usuall )

keen judgment , to point out that " VV . M . Regispcns and I are m . more one and the same person than aro " Primus ( and Solus ) " ami '' Comns . " He may be an acquaintance of mine , and so maj " Primus , " for aught I know to the contrary , as I know very man ; . Craftsmen , but until his true name is revealed , I am as much in tbt

dark as to the personality of " VV . M . Regispous " as " Primus " u about that of the Man in the Moon—if there be such an individual . AH to the point at issue between " VV . M . Kegispons" and myself on the one hand , and " Primus ( and Solus ) " on the other , I faucy it is more apparent than real . I did not understand " VV . M . Uegispons" atsuggesting that a Master should invite a Warden or other qualified

Correspondence.

brother to fulfil his duties for him . I considered he was pleased with the ruling of the Grand Registrar , because it gave a W . M . the opportunity of allowing other than P . M . ' s , who already know the work , to discharge thoso functions of the chair whioh they may reasonably look forward to discharging at some future time . I pictured to myself the case of a W . M . ivho was well enough to

attend the Lodge and occupy the chair , yet not well enough to do all the business of the evening " . Such being the case , I thonght it would be a good thing that the W . M ., if so minded , should give ono of his Wardens the chance of working one of the ceremonies . I feel that I am taking somewhat of a liberty when I interpret " W . M . Regispons ' s " letter in my own fashion , but this was the kind of idea

it seemed tome he had in his mind when I read it . If I understand him rightly , " Primus ( aud Solus' ) " objection is to a W . M . regularly having his work done by deputy , and so is well founded ; bnt the whole thing , from beginning to end , is exceptional . If , says the Grand Registrar , a W . M . momentarily feels himself unequal to the task of fulfilling his duties , then e may invite any qualified brother

to speak the words for him . If this ruling is correct , says ' W . M . Keifispons , " so much the better , for a Warden or other brother who hopes some day or ether to fill the chair may thus obtain a practical kuowleJue of its duties . And this is the view of your humble servant and brother . I fully recognise the wisdom of the suggestion that a W . M . should do his own work , bnt in the case I have already suggested , or

in that of his having to perform the same ceremony more than two or three times the same evening , I do not think he would be " shirking his duty " if he allowed some one else the opportunity of gaining a little pracical insight into tho work . I am afraid I have trespassed on yonr valuable space , and , therefore , without further com . ment , subscribe myself , Faithfully and fraternally yours , COM us ,

CHEVALIER RAMSAY AND THE ROYAL ARCH

To the Editor of THE FREEMASON S CHRONICLE . DEAR SIR AND BROTHER , —I find in the Gentleman ' s Magazine , page 219 , 1739 , the following interesting news from Rome : — " There was lately burnt here , with great solemnity , by order of the Inquisition , a piece in French , written by Chevalier Ramsay ( author of the Travels of Cyrus ) , an apologetical and historical

relation of the secrets of Freemasons , printed at Dublin , by Patrick Odonoko . This was published at Paris , in answer to a pretended catechism printed there by order of the Lieutenant de Police . " I called attention to above paragraph in the November number of the Canadian News , 1876 . I have also written to Bro . Hughan , to endeavour to hunt up the Dublin pamphlet , and to Bro . Findel , at

Leipsic , to try and find the French edition , but so far thev have met with no success . A few days since , I found in the Freemasons ' Quarterly Review , 1851 , in a note to the Revelations of a Square , by Dr . Oliver , as follows : — " An apolosry for the Free and Accepted Masons , occasioned by their persecution in the Canton of Berno , with the present state of

Masonry in Germany , Italy , France , Flanders , and Holland . By J . G . D . M . F . M . Patrick Odnroko , Dublin , 1739 . " The niinio of the Dublin printer is evidently misspelt in one of the above paragraphs , but in other respects there is no antagonism between theuij . the correspondent from Rome described the French edition of the pamphlet , and Dr . Oliver transcribed the title page of

tho Dublin edition , and did not evidently know that Ramsay was its author , and that a French edition was burned in Rome in 1739 , & c . Now , Dr . Oliver must either have owned a copy of that pamphlet , or he transcribed its title page from a copy in the Museum , or from one in possession of the late Bro . Spencer ; anyhow , there must still be a copy in existence , and I should much like to know some more about

its contents ; for , in the first placo , it may throw new light on the Masonic history of that period ; and , second , it may enlighten us about the movements of Ramsay in those days , which may in its turn throw some light on the origin of the Royal Arch Degree . Dr . Oliver informs us , first , that Ramsay lived in England from 17-10 to 1741 . Second , that the first mention or allusion to the

Royal Arch occurred in 1710 . Aud third , that Ramsay first offered to sell his R . A . Degree to the Grand Lodge of England ; bnt , as the Grand Lodge would have nothing to do with it , ho sold or gave it to the Ancients . Now , these statements may be true : but as our Doctor gave no authority whence he derived that information , they may be untrue . One thing is certain , viz ., that the R . A . Degree

was worked in Dublin in 1741 ; for this information we are indebted to Bro . Hughan ' s discovery of the pamphlet by Fifield Dassigni , Dublin , 1741 . Now , if the Dublin pamphlet of 1739 , by Odoroko , or Odonoko , was really written by Rsvmsav , it would support the theory that Ramsay visted Ireland in 1739 , and he may also have visited Eng . land in 1740 , as stated by Bro . Oiver , and I may fnrther suggest

' . hat if Ramsay did visit any part of England or Ireland about that ime , it was not for the purpose of disposing of his Masouic bantling , iiut for political purposes ; his nv-ii'i object must have been to confer with the partiz : ins of the Pretender , and in that case , he may havo isited Ireland before Enjxland , and while he was in Dahlia ho irobably published the pamphlet , ending with six mysterious letters , md he may have left there his new Royal Arch Degreo at the same

oime . Honce , a knowledge of the contents of the 1739 pamphlet nay help to solve that puzzle . ^ But , anyhow , a publication of that early Masonic period must be > f some interest to Masonic inquirers , and if a copy of it is still ireseived , it should bo either reprinted in pamphlet form or in a Vlasonic periodical . I h > pe and trnst therefore that the above hints vill not be in vain . Perhaps Bro . W . Spencer knows something tboat it . Fraternally and respectfully your ? , Boston , U . S ., 6 th July 1877 , JACOB NOBIOK ,

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