-
Articles/Ads
Article CORRESPONDENCE Page 1 of 1 Article CORRESPONDENCE Page 1 of 1
Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.
Correspondence
CORRESPONDENCE .
We do not hold ourselves responsible for tho opinions of our Correspondents . All Letters must boar the name and address of the Writer , not necessarily for publication , but as u , guarantee of good faith . Wo cannot undertake to roturn rejected communications .
LAST APPLICATION CASES . To the Editor of the FREEMASON ' S CHRONICLE . DEAR SIR AND BROTHER , —It is with great pleasure that I notice that the sorutiny claimed on behalf of the boy Kent in concoction with the recent election of the Royal Masonio Institntion for Boys has proved successful for him , and that instead of his having only polled 1958 votes he actually had 2952 votes recorded on his behalf ,
ao that it placea him among the successful cases . So far this is all very well for Master Kent , but aa a writer in your columns recently said , it seems a great pity that worthy applicants for tbe benefits of oar Charities shonid have tbe doors closed against them because they are over age . I am fully aware that the rules of the Institution are such that if a boy is not successful by the time he reaches the age of
twelve he cannot be admitted to farther ballot ; bnt , Bro . Editor , what I want to ask , like many more brethren , is , cannot a means be found wherein last application caBes might stand a better chance of 8 aooes 8 than they do at present ? I have been thinking that a system something like that nied by the Civil Service Commissioners in dealing with the Second Division
Clerkships' examinations might work in this case . I will quote from the Regulationsr fo this examination , so that your readers may see what I mean . The regulations say : " Boy Clerks may , after two years , . . . of good servioe , . . . compete among themselves for so many Second Division Clerkships as shall not exceed one-fourth of the number of competitors . "
Now let us see how this wonld work in the oase of onr Institutions . Suppose there are twenty vacancies at the School ; there ia a list of forty candidates applying for admission to the Sohool , and of these forty ten of them are last application cases . Why oonld we not let five of the twenty vacancies be pat aside for the five last application cases polling the most votes , while , should any of the remaining last application oases poll sufficient votes , let them take their place on the
other successful list . Thia wonld make snre of five last application oases being eleoted , and it wonld give others a better chance to get on the successful list . This , Brother Editor , is only an idea that came into my mind on reading the letter in your issue of the 16 th April , signed " LIFE GOVBKNOB , " bnt I believe it would be workable , and thns do away with the unpleasant task of having to refnse admission in many cases to qualified sons and daughters of worthy Masons .
I am , Daar Sir , yours fraternally , CIVIL SERVANT . Barnsbury , N ., 27 th April 1892 .
THE HOME OF OUR BOYS . To the Editor of the FREEMASON ' S CHRONICLE . DEAR SIR AND BROTHER , —It seems you and I are not to be allowed to entertain our views in regard to the removal of the Boys ' School unopposed . The letter which followed mine in your last issua certainly puts a different construction on the matter than that I had
adopted , bnt I hope " AN OLD SUBSCRIBER " will not mind my saying I am still in favour of removal , in spite of his remarks . The beauty of Freemasonry is , that brethren may differ and disagree on nearly every matter between them , but all tbe same they are brethren , and M suoh are willing to meet in friendly converse and discuss their
differences without let or hindrance , and I hope this feeling will always continue . I disagree with "AN OLD SUBSCRIBER " on the question of a new home for onr Boys , but should probably find him a jovial companion , and enjoy a few hours in his company if I had the chance of meeting him .
Yonra fraternally , ON THE BOAD . Great Yarmouth , 27 th April .
" POPE , FRIENDLY SOCIETIES AND MASONS . " To the Editor of the " Speaker . " SIR , —I did not propose to continue this controversy beyond my last letter , bat certain nnfair assumptions of correspondents in your last issue demand a few final remarks . I do not pretend to havo tha knowledge of Friendly Society matters possessed by either the Right Hon . or the Reverend gentleman , but I do claim that on the
particular points raised they are both decidedly in error ; and recognising how futile is mere assertion to establish a matter of fact , I have procured evidence to support this contention . The original question was simply , Are Catholics in Great Britain free or not to join suoh Friendly Societies as the Foresters , Oddfellows , & o . P Sir Charles Dilke , in his article , asserted that they were not . Let us see
what there is to be said on tbe point by responsible persons . The secretary of the National Foresters writes from Merchant's Quay , Dubliu : — " Our membership iu Ireland is about 5 , 200 , in Scotland about 7 , 300 , and in England about 2 , 400 . Over 95 per cent . of our members are Catholics . " The Eev . Mr . Wilkinson ignores this , evidently ths strongest of the Friendly Societies in Ireland . Why ?
Correspondence
The district seoretary of the Anoient Order of Foresters writes from Drumcondra , co . Dublin : — " We have in Dublin about 1 , 000 members ; of these over 900 are , I should say , Koman Catholics . " How does this bear ont the statement that " some Koman Catholics " only join these soointies ? This district secretary is himself a
Catholic , and ha 3 been a member of the executive council . He was also a member of a committee at Sheffield , which made certain alterations in the Lecture Book , so as to remove Catholic objections . Tho Vicar-Cfipitnlar of Westminster writes : — "There is no prohibition against Oddfellows and Foresters in this diooese . —Daniel Gilbert . "
I cannot imagine why Sir Charles Dilko should characterise as " monstrous" a deoiBion of the Church as to what is or is not consistent with her membership . Surely every properly constituted sooiety must have the right to make its own rules . No one is kept in the Cbnroh by compulsion . Those who voluntarily remain members of a society whose rules are " monstrous " must be fools
or worse . This is the logical outcome of Sir Charles Dilke s diotum in regard to Catholics , and I contend that it is a misuse of words , and shows not a little arrogance to speak so very strongly on a simple matter , and to judge so arbitrarily the conduct of millions of people . In a necessarily brief reference to the Catholic Benefit Sooiety , I inquired what Sir Charles Dilke meant by an " affiliated order " ?
Although I distinctly indicated the legal position of the Sooiety under the Acta and towards the Registrar of Friendly Societies , I am accused of showing " some want of knowledge of the question . " Surely an unwarrantable assumption ? Sir Charles does not say how this society—whioh is not , and has never been called , an " order "—can be one of the " affiliated orders . " No doubt it is all
in the Blue Book ; but even this authority does not justify the use of inaccurate terms by your correspondent , still less does it warrant him charging me with " want of knowledge " for asking the meaning of a very loose description . ' Having often dealt with the reports of the Catholic Benefit Sooiety in my capaoity as a Cat hoi io journalist , I may be presumed
to know as much about it as the Rev . Mr . Wilkinson , who , by the way , attempts in his letter to prove the very points surrendered by Sir Charles Dilke . The fact of the Catholio Benefit Society having received tha Pope's " blessing , " or being sanctioned in a diocese by a bishop , does not make " the Churoh responsible for it "; it merely shows that it
is suoh a Society as Catholics can safely join . The Pope might , if asked , give his blessing to the Foresters , and has , I believe , given it to the Chioago Exhibition , whioh has also , no donbt , the full " consent" of the local Catholic bishop to its establishment ; but need I tell yonr reverend correspondent that this does not make the Church " responsible " for it ? It is so easy to misunderstand and
misrepresent what a " blessing" or a " sanction really implies —just as some people misinterpret the meaning of an " indulgence . " I shall not follow Sir Charles Dilke into the side issues raised in his letter . Whether Catholios " bless" themselves as frequently as High Church folk , and whether Masons and Templars would object to their doing so , have little to do with the question . I mentioned
the former merely as an illustration of how each creed has certain distinctive characteristics that come out in various ways . I also spoke of an " unwritten code , " which is to be found in all organised bodies , whether religions or social . When the Rev . Mr . Wilkinson tells us that " no such thing " exists in the Friendly Societies of Australia , I can only wonder what these societies are like .
Yours faithfully , C . DrAAIOND . 276 Strand , W . C .
To the Editor of the " Speaker . " SIR , —Sir Charles Dilke says that " to deny an English Catholio —because he is an English Freemason—the sacraments of the Church must be monstrous to all who know what English Freemasonry is . " It is quite outside the ken of the Catholio Church whether a secret sooiety be for ber or against her , for things
" spiritual" or for things "temporal . " The end the secret society has in view may be both spiritually and temporally good , still the Catholic Church objects . Why ? Because a secret society bound together by secret laws—outside the ken both of Churoh and State —is a danger both to the spiritual and temporal executive . It is the "Imperium in Imperio , " and no Government—spiritual or temporal
—can allow this . If the members of a secret society have anything to say against the spiritual or temporal power , let them state it openly , this is quite allowable ; but to permit a lot of men in secret conclave to override both " Churoh" and " State" would be eventually the destruction of all Government , both spiritual and temporal . No body of men have a right to meet in secret , eithor against Church or State . SACERDOS HIBERNICUS . 11 th April 1892 .
We are glad to find that on Thursday and Friday at the eleotion of candidates to the Boys' and Girls' Mnsonic Schools ( Loudon ) , two candidates from North Wales woro successful in gaining admission to the Schools , a girl named Ethel Issard , of Newtown , who obtained 2641 votes , aud a boy named James Robert Bruce Nevin , of the Portnmdoo Lodge . Bro . C . K . Benson ( chairman of the Charity
Committee , and representative of the North Wales Masonio Cbarituble Association ) , who was present on tho occasion , deserves credit for the manner he managed the whole business , the boy ob aining no less than 2692 votes , and being sixth on tbe poll . Bro . Benson was again re-elected on the Board of Management of the Boys' Sohool . — North Wales Guardian ..
Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.
Correspondence
CORRESPONDENCE .
We do not hold ourselves responsible for tho opinions of our Correspondents . All Letters must boar the name and address of the Writer , not necessarily for publication , but as u , guarantee of good faith . Wo cannot undertake to roturn rejected communications .
LAST APPLICATION CASES . To the Editor of the FREEMASON ' S CHRONICLE . DEAR SIR AND BROTHER , —It is with great pleasure that I notice that the sorutiny claimed on behalf of the boy Kent in concoction with the recent election of the Royal Masonio Institntion for Boys has proved successful for him , and that instead of his having only polled 1958 votes he actually had 2952 votes recorded on his behalf ,
ao that it placea him among the successful cases . So far this is all very well for Master Kent , but aa a writer in your columns recently said , it seems a great pity that worthy applicants for tbe benefits of oar Charities shonid have tbe doors closed against them because they are over age . I am fully aware that the rules of the Institution are such that if a boy is not successful by the time he reaches the age of
twelve he cannot be admitted to farther ballot ; bnt , Bro . Editor , what I want to ask , like many more brethren , is , cannot a means be found wherein last application caBes might stand a better chance of 8 aooes 8 than they do at present ? I have been thinking that a system something like that nied by the Civil Service Commissioners in dealing with the Second Division
Clerkships' examinations might work in this case . I will quote from the Regulationsr fo this examination , so that your readers may see what I mean . The regulations say : " Boy Clerks may , after two years , . . . of good servioe , . . . compete among themselves for so many Second Division Clerkships as shall not exceed one-fourth of the number of competitors . "
Now let us see how this wonld work in the oase of onr Institutions . Suppose there are twenty vacancies at the School ; there ia a list of forty candidates applying for admission to the Sohool , and of these forty ten of them are last application cases . Why oonld we not let five of the twenty vacancies be pat aside for the five last application cases polling the most votes , while , should any of the remaining last application oases poll sufficient votes , let them take their place on the
other successful list . Thia wonld make snre of five last application oases being eleoted , and it wonld give others a better chance to get on the successful list . This , Brother Editor , is only an idea that came into my mind on reading the letter in your issue of the 16 th April , signed " LIFE GOVBKNOB , " bnt I believe it would be workable , and thns do away with the unpleasant task of having to refnse admission in many cases to qualified sons and daughters of worthy Masons .
I am , Daar Sir , yours fraternally , CIVIL SERVANT . Barnsbury , N ., 27 th April 1892 .
THE HOME OF OUR BOYS . To the Editor of the FREEMASON ' S CHRONICLE . DEAR SIR AND BROTHER , —It seems you and I are not to be allowed to entertain our views in regard to the removal of the Boys ' School unopposed . The letter which followed mine in your last issua certainly puts a different construction on the matter than that I had
adopted , bnt I hope " AN OLD SUBSCRIBER " will not mind my saying I am still in favour of removal , in spite of his remarks . The beauty of Freemasonry is , that brethren may differ and disagree on nearly every matter between them , but all tbe same they are brethren , and M suoh are willing to meet in friendly converse and discuss their
differences without let or hindrance , and I hope this feeling will always continue . I disagree with "AN OLD SUBSCRIBER " on the question of a new home for onr Boys , but should probably find him a jovial companion , and enjoy a few hours in his company if I had the chance of meeting him .
Yonra fraternally , ON THE BOAD . Great Yarmouth , 27 th April .
" POPE , FRIENDLY SOCIETIES AND MASONS . " To the Editor of the " Speaker . " SIR , —I did not propose to continue this controversy beyond my last letter , bat certain nnfair assumptions of correspondents in your last issue demand a few final remarks . I do not pretend to havo tha knowledge of Friendly Society matters possessed by either the Right Hon . or the Reverend gentleman , but I do claim that on the
particular points raised they are both decidedly in error ; and recognising how futile is mere assertion to establish a matter of fact , I have procured evidence to support this contention . The original question was simply , Are Catholics in Great Britain free or not to join suoh Friendly Societies as the Foresters , Oddfellows , & o . P Sir Charles Dilke , in his article , asserted that they were not . Let us see
what there is to be said on tbe point by responsible persons . The secretary of the National Foresters writes from Merchant's Quay , Dubliu : — " Our membership iu Ireland is about 5 , 200 , in Scotland about 7 , 300 , and in England about 2 , 400 . Over 95 per cent . of our members are Catholics . " The Eev . Mr . Wilkinson ignores this , evidently ths strongest of the Friendly Societies in Ireland . Why ?
Correspondence
The district seoretary of the Anoient Order of Foresters writes from Drumcondra , co . Dublin : — " We have in Dublin about 1 , 000 members ; of these over 900 are , I should say , Koman Catholics . " How does this bear ont the statement that " some Koman Catholics " only join these soointies ? This district secretary is himself a
Catholic , and ha 3 been a member of the executive council . He was also a member of a committee at Sheffield , which made certain alterations in the Lecture Book , so as to remove Catholic objections . Tho Vicar-Cfipitnlar of Westminster writes : — "There is no prohibition against Oddfellows and Foresters in this diooese . —Daniel Gilbert . "
I cannot imagine why Sir Charles Dilko should characterise as " monstrous" a deoiBion of the Church as to what is or is not consistent with her membership . Surely every properly constituted sooiety must have the right to make its own rules . No one is kept in the Cbnroh by compulsion . Those who voluntarily remain members of a society whose rules are " monstrous " must be fools
or worse . This is the logical outcome of Sir Charles Dilke s diotum in regard to Catholics , and I contend that it is a misuse of words , and shows not a little arrogance to speak so very strongly on a simple matter , and to judge so arbitrarily the conduct of millions of people . In a necessarily brief reference to the Catholic Benefit Sooiety , I inquired what Sir Charles Dilke meant by an " affiliated order " ?
Although I distinctly indicated the legal position of the Sooiety under the Acta and towards the Registrar of Friendly Societies , I am accused of showing " some want of knowledge of the question . " Surely an unwarrantable assumption ? Sir Charles does not say how this society—whioh is not , and has never been called , an " order "—can be one of the " affiliated orders . " No doubt it is all
in the Blue Book ; but even this authority does not justify the use of inaccurate terms by your correspondent , still less does it warrant him charging me with " want of knowledge " for asking the meaning of a very loose description . ' Having often dealt with the reports of the Catholic Benefit Sooiety in my capaoity as a Cat hoi io journalist , I may be presumed
to know as much about it as the Rev . Mr . Wilkinson , who , by the way , attempts in his letter to prove the very points surrendered by Sir Charles Dilke . The fact of the Catholio Benefit Society having received tha Pope's " blessing , " or being sanctioned in a diocese by a bishop , does not make " the Churoh responsible for it "; it merely shows that it
is suoh a Society as Catholics can safely join . The Pope might , if asked , give his blessing to the Foresters , and has , I believe , given it to the Chioago Exhibition , whioh has also , no donbt , the full " consent" of the local Catholic bishop to its establishment ; but need I tell yonr reverend correspondent that this does not make the Church " responsible " for it ? It is so easy to misunderstand and
misrepresent what a " blessing" or a " sanction really implies —just as some people misinterpret the meaning of an " indulgence . " I shall not follow Sir Charles Dilke into the side issues raised in his letter . Whether Catholios " bless" themselves as frequently as High Church folk , and whether Masons and Templars would object to their doing so , have little to do with the question . I mentioned
the former merely as an illustration of how each creed has certain distinctive characteristics that come out in various ways . I also spoke of an " unwritten code , " which is to be found in all organised bodies , whether religions or social . When the Rev . Mr . Wilkinson tells us that " no such thing " exists in the Friendly Societies of Australia , I can only wonder what these societies are like .
Yours faithfully , C . DrAAIOND . 276 Strand , W . C .
To the Editor of the " Speaker . " SIR , —Sir Charles Dilke says that " to deny an English Catholio —because he is an English Freemason—the sacraments of the Church must be monstrous to all who know what English Freemasonry is . " It is quite outside the ken of the Catholio Church whether a secret sooiety be for ber or against her , for things
" spiritual" or for things "temporal . " The end the secret society has in view may be both spiritually and temporally good , still the Catholic Church objects . Why ? Because a secret society bound together by secret laws—outside the ken both of Churoh and State —is a danger both to the spiritual and temporal executive . It is the "Imperium in Imperio , " and no Government—spiritual or temporal
—can allow this . If the members of a secret society have anything to say against the spiritual or temporal power , let them state it openly , this is quite allowable ; but to permit a lot of men in secret conclave to override both " Churoh" and " State" would be eventually the destruction of all Government , both spiritual and temporal . No body of men have a right to meet in secret , eithor against Church or State . SACERDOS HIBERNICUS . 11 th April 1892 .
We are glad to find that on Thursday and Friday at the eleotion of candidates to the Boys' and Girls' Mnsonic Schools ( Loudon ) , two candidates from North Wales woro successful in gaining admission to the Schools , a girl named Ethel Issard , of Newtown , who obtained 2641 votes , aud a boy named James Robert Bruce Nevin , of the Portnmdoo Lodge . Bro . C . K . Benson ( chairman of the Charity
Committee , and representative of the North Wales Masonio Cbarituble Association ) , who was present on tho occasion , deserves credit for the manner he managed the whole business , the boy ob aining no less than 2692 votes , and being sixth on tbe poll . Bro . Benson was again re-elected on the Board of Management of the Boys' Sohool . — North Wales Guardian ..