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Royal Masonic Institution For Girls.

Bro . Raynham W . Stewart seconded the motion , and said he must endorse every word that had fallen from Bro . Symonds . He did so after having carefully investigated the matter with Bro . Symonds . There , was just cause of complaint on the part of the country subscribers

who contributed their money with the belief that it would be paid to the Secretary , and that no commission would be deducted . He knew , however , that commission was allowed on it to the disgust of the country brethren . To use a vulgar phrase , it was doubly sweated ; a

commission was paid on the collection in the country , and another to the London Collector . He ( Bro . Stewart ) also desired to have credit for wishing to serve the Institution . He thought that if the money was paid to the Secretary they would save a large amount of money , and by that

saving they would be enabled to put three additional children in the Institution , instead of squandering it away . No doubt Bro . Smith had the same idea of benefiting the Institution that he had . It was not likely they would be able to get a Collector to do the London work because it would

not be worth his while ; and if they got a man who collected for other institutions he could not do his duty to all . Let them try the proposed scheme for a twelvemonth , and see whether it would answer . Bro . Joseph Smith , in moving his amendment

for continuing the office of Collector , said he hoped they would not think he was actuated by a desire to raise a factious opposition . ( No , no . ) They were all anxious to do the best they could for the Institution , and if they believed their views were right there was no harm in stating

their views in opposition . ( Hear , hear . ) He had never taken an active part in the management of the Boys' or the Girls' School ; he devoted his time to the Benevolent Institution . The Boys' and Girls' Schools were so well managed they could take care of themselves

without him . But when he did take part in it , it was when he thought the brethren were going to sell the Institution , and he then made a motion , which after all turned out to be the right course , and he had a committee appointed . At a former meeting there was a feeling in favour

of doing away with the Collector , and ho had a committee appointed . They met , and consisted of nine brethren . After their deliberation , ! they were just as near a result as before . At the meeting of the Committee there were four on each side , and the Chairman gave his casting

vote . At the next meeting there were seven ; there were three on one side and three on the other ; and the Chairman again gave his casting vote . It was a new feature to do away with the Collector , and he did not think they would get the same amount of money by the new

proposition . He had moved that a Collector be appointed , and paid only on such sums as be collected . This was the principle the brethren had to decide . He had a great objection to giving a Collector commission on what he did not receive , and he thought the brethren in the

country had good ground for complaint when a Collector was so paid . He did not care what poundage they gave a Collector ; and he did not care if they had another clerk in the office . If they wanted him let them have him ; but if they had a Secretary or clerk , unless they gave

him an inducement in the shape of a com mission he would not try to collect the money . The clerk might be sent out on a fine day to collect , and might think it a good opportunity for taking a holiday . The payment of subscriptions was not like the payment of taxes . If brethren

promised subscriptions to Stewards you might wait a long time before the brethren promising sent the subscription to the office . If a Collector called on them they would pay . He did not stand alone in his opinion ; he had canvassed , and found several brethren entertained the same

views . He thought the Charities would lose by the proposed plan . Bro . H . G . Warren seconded the amendment . He was one of the minority in the Special Committee who voted for a Collector . When he

entered on his duties he expected they were to enquire into something , and take evidence upon it ; The resolutions which were come to were without the slightest attempt to get at any evilence whatever . ( Cries of dissent . ) ( Order ,

Royal Masonic Institution For Girls.

order . ) Bro . Symonds had gone into a statement of what took place at the Committee , and he , Bro . Warren , had a perfect right to do the same . The only tittle of evidence was a statement by the Secretary , which he thought would astonish the brethren as much as it had

astonished him , Bro . Warren , that they had 150 annual subscribers , and it had not been usual to look up the subscriber of one year for his subscription for the next year . With the embryo life subscribers it became a rule in some lodges that before they took office they should become

Life Governors of the Charities , and consequently those who had subscribed for one year were , in the course of three or four years , life subscribers . But surely out of the number of Stewards they had , they ought to have more than 150 annual subscribers . They ought to have

had evidence of that ; and he would like tn have asked Bro . Muggeridge how often he had to call upon them . Nothing of the kind took place . He would pass that over . As regarded the payment of commission , he perfectly agreed , as he

believed every one present did , that they should not pay for work not done ; they should fix a sum to be paid as commission on money collected , and pay no more . He would not put the Stewards' Lists into the hands of the Collector

in the first instance . It had been usual not to let the Collector have those lists until after the first meeting of the Stewards at least . It was so when he was a Steward ; but this was not a matter of so much importance as that they would find it difficult to place it all in one man ' s hands ,

unless they did it by making the Secretary the manager , and the sole manager , of the Institution . ( A Voice : " So he ought to be . " ) That was a matter of opinion ; he was not going to discuss that . He did not see the difficulty discovered by Bro . Raynham Stewart of getting a Collector ,

or that they could not get rid of a Collector with as much ease as they could get rid of a clerk . It did not matter what the title of the officer was ; they could dismiss one as well as the other . There was a difficulty as regarded payment , and this belonged solely to the General

Committee ; but as it was raised at the Special Committee he would not be much out of order if he stated that there was a proposition to pay not only a salary , but commission . ( A Voice : "No ; it was abandoned . " ) It was not abandoned ; it was only abandoned in so far as he

stated that this being a matter for the General Committee they could not go into it ; and the brethren said they should not press it . ( A Voice : " It was abandoned . " ) Then he was perfectly satisfied with that . He was of opinion with Bro . Smith that if they sent out clerks to collect

money in which they had no intcrestthey would not find the same amount como in as they did when they had a Collector . Bro . the Rev . A . F . A . Woodford said that this was a matter which agitated the provinces in past years very considerably , as he knew

perfectly well when acting officiall y for a large and important province . He had listened most attentively to what Bro . Symonds had said , and he felt that after that very lucid and clear Statement he was bound to «» ivr » his snnnnrt '

to the Committee . He had said to Bro . Joseph Smith on more than one occasion that he for one should be quite prepared to consider the question of the employment of a Collector as regarded thc London brethren , if they so wished it , and it would be convenient for them . But

as there were many difficulties in the way , he thought they were going to do the right thing by caking steps to prevent an abuse which had existed for years , and had prevented worth y brethren from becoming Life Governors because they would not pay a percentage for what the

Collector had not done ; they would not pay money , that is , to the institution for work never executed . The proposed plan , he believed , was not only the most business-like and strai ghtforward . but would give large additional subscriptions from the provinces . He would mention a case , a

true case , which a brother at the end of the table would confirm . In a province with which he was connected they sent up some years ago £ 2000 for the Girls' School , and on that they had to pay the Collector a sum which would amount to two life governorships , and not a sixpence of the whole subscription had passed

Royal Masonic Institution For Girls.

through the hands of the Collector . He would ask if that was not an abuse ? He believed the proposal made by the Special Committee would prevent such an abuse ; and as Freemasons did not like anything which was an abuse , he hoped that the brethren would give their

hearty support to the Committee . ( Hear , hear . ) Bro . G . M . E . Snow attacked the existing system , and contrasted it with that of the Merchant Seamen ' s Orphan Asylum and tht ^ Licensed Victuallers ' . Bro . Dr . Ramsay supported the original motion .

Bro . George Powell asked the Chairman whether the new plan was to be permanent or tentative . The Chairman said tentative . Bro . George Powell said he thought it was worth a trial . He also said he deduced from

what Bro . Warren had said , that some of the opposing brethren had not been treated quite with courtesy on the Committee , and Bro . Symonds seemed to imply that the opposing brethren had not the interests of the Institution at

heart . ( No . ) Bro . Henry Venn thought the opinion of the Committee was very evenly balanced ; but he believed that after the long experience they had had of a Collector , they could not do better than give a trial to the new feature .

Bro . Symonds , in replying upon the different arguments , said that with regard to want of courtesy that had never been suggested , and he had never meant to say that brethren not entertaining his own views were not solicitous for the welfare of the Institution . Bro . Smith had said

several times m the course of his speech that they were going to do away with the Collector . They did not propose to do a way with the Collector , They proposed to make the Secretary the Collector , as he was now the Collector of the larger portion of the subscriptions . The Committee

were precluded from going into an enquiry on the subject by Bro . Smith proposing that a Collector should be appointed . They were rather in a hurry . Bro . Smith was taking his observation about going into detail in very good part , and he ( Bro . Symonds ) did not intend certainly

to deceive him , and he thought it desirable that Bro . Smith should define what he meant . If they adopted what Bro . Smith proposed b y his amendment , if a Collector was to be paid onl y on what he received , and he applied several times for a subscription , and that subscription was

after all paid to the office , they would be bound by the resolution , and could not give him a sixpence commission . There seemed to be an impression that if the subscriptions were collected by thc Secretary personally , or through his clerks , there would not be an inducement to

them to get the subscriptions in if there was no commission paid . Bro . Little had never been paid by commission ; Bro . Binckes was so paid at one time , and a certain small salary as well . That was afterwards altered , and a suitable salary was paid to him .

The amendment of Bro . ' Joseph Smith was then put and negatived , and the original motion of Bro . John Symonds was afterwards put and carried by a large majority . A vote of thanks to the Chairman concluded the proceedings .

Consecration Of The Era Chapter, No. 1423.

CONSECRATION OF THE ERA CHAPTER , No . 1423 .

On Saturday last , November 2 , 5 th , at the King ' s Arms Hotel , Hampton Court , a seventh chapter W 3 S added to the Royal Arch Masonic roll of Middlesex . The interesting ceremonies of consecration and installation were exceedingly well performed bv the M . E . P . G . S . of MirlHl ^ v

Comp . Col . Francis Burdett , aided by Comps . J . Boyd , R . W . Little , P . G . H ., and H . G . Buss , P . G . T . of Middlesex . The chapter was opened by the M . E . P . G . S ., assisted by Comps . Boyd , acting H . ; Little , acting J . Amongst the numerous and brilliant gathering present

were Comps . Stedwell , P . G . J , of Middlesex ; Roebuck , P . P . G . H . of Middlesex ; Cubitt , P . Z ., P . S . E . of Middlesex ; Woodman , P . Z ., P . G . D . C . of England , and P . P . First A . G . S . of Middlesex ; Laxton , P . Z ., P . G . R . of Middlesex ; W . Hammond , P . Second A . G . S . of Middle-

“The Freemason: 1876-12-02, Page 11” Masonic Periodicals Online, Library and Museum of Freemasonry, 24 July 2025, django:8000/periodicals/fvl/issues/fvl_02121876/page/11/.
  • List
  • Grid
Title Category Page
CONTENTS. Article 1
REPORTS OF MASONIC MEETINGS. Article 1
Ancient and Accepted Rite. Article 3
EMULATION LODGE OF IMPROVEMENT. Article 3
LAYING THE FOUNDATION STONE OF NEW MASONIC BUILDINGS AT CHACEWATER. Article 5
UNITED GRAND LODGE. Article 5
PROVINCIAL GRAND LODGE OF LEICESTERSHIRE AND RUTLAND Article 6
ROYAL MASONIC INSTITUTION FOR GIRLS. Article 6
LONDON MASONIC CLU3 COMPANY (LIMITED.) Article 6
CHARLES HARBORD, BARON SUFFIELD. Article 6
Masonic and General Tidings. Article 6
THE CONGRESS OF LAUSANNE. Article 7
CONSECRATION OF THE KENNARD CHAPTER AT PONTYPOOL. Article 7
IMPORTANT NOTICE. Article 8
REMITTANCES RECEIVED. Article 8
TO OUR READERS. Article 8
TO ADVERTISERS. Article 8
Answers to Correspondents. Article 8
Births, Marriages, and Deaths. Article 8
Untitled Article 8
PRINCE LEOPOLD IN WILTSHIRE. Article 8
THE EMULATION FESTIVAL. Article 8
FREEMASONRY IN BELGIUM. Article 8
ANOTHER RELIGIOUS MASONIC PERSECUTION. Article 8
THE LAST LODGE OF BENEVOLENCE. Article 8
THE LONDON CABMEN. Article 8
Original Correspondence. Article 9
ROYAL MASONIC INSTITUTION FOR GIRLS. Article 9
CONSECRATION OF THE ERA CHAPTER, No. 1423. Article 11
PROVINCIAL GRAND LODGE OF EAST LANCASHIRE. Article 12
Obituary. Article 12
MASONIC BALL AT CAMBRIDGE. Article 13
Untitled Article 13
METROPOLITAN MASONIC MEETINGS. Article 13
MASONIC MEETINGS IN WEST LANCASHIRE AND CHESHIRE. Article 13
MASONIC MEETINGS IN GLASGOW AND WEST OF SCOTLAND. Article 13
MASONIC MEETINGS IN EDINBURGH AND VICINITY. Article 14
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Royal Masonic Institution For Girls.

Bro . Raynham W . Stewart seconded the motion , and said he must endorse every word that had fallen from Bro . Symonds . He did so after having carefully investigated the matter with Bro . Symonds . There , was just cause of complaint on the part of the country subscribers

who contributed their money with the belief that it would be paid to the Secretary , and that no commission would be deducted . He knew , however , that commission was allowed on it to the disgust of the country brethren . To use a vulgar phrase , it was doubly sweated ; a

commission was paid on the collection in the country , and another to the London Collector . He ( Bro . Stewart ) also desired to have credit for wishing to serve the Institution . He thought that if the money was paid to the Secretary they would save a large amount of money , and by that

saving they would be enabled to put three additional children in the Institution , instead of squandering it away . No doubt Bro . Smith had the same idea of benefiting the Institution that he had . It was not likely they would be able to get a Collector to do the London work because it would

not be worth his while ; and if they got a man who collected for other institutions he could not do his duty to all . Let them try the proposed scheme for a twelvemonth , and see whether it would answer . Bro . Joseph Smith , in moving his amendment

for continuing the office of Collector , said he hoped they would not think he was actuated by a desire to raise a factious opposition . ( No , no . ) They were all anxious to do the best they could for the Institution , and if they believed their views were right there was no harm in stating

their views in opposition . ( Hear , hear . ) He had never taken an active part in the management of the Boys' or the Girls' School ; he devoted his time to the Benevolent Institution . The Boys' and Girls' Schools were so well managed they could take care of themselves

without him . But when he did take part in it , it was when he thought the brethren were going to sell the Institution , and he then made a motion , which after all turned out to be the right course , and he had a committee appointed . At a former meeting there was a feeling in favour

of doing away with the Collector , and ho had a committee appointed . They met , and consisted of nine brethren . After their deliberation , ! they were just as near a result as before . At the meeting of the Committee there were four on each side , and the Chairman gave his casting

vote . At the next meeting there were seven ; there were three on one side and three on the other ; and the Chairman again gave his casting vote . It was a new feature to do away with the Collector , and he did not think they would get the same amount of money by the new

proposition . He had moved that a Collector be appointed , and paid only on such sums as be collected . This was the principle the brethren had to decide . He had a great objection to giving a Collector commission on what he did not receive , and he thought the brethren in the

country had good ground for complaint when a Collector was so paid . He did not care what poundage they gave a Collector ; and he did not care if they had another clerk in the office . If they wanted him let them have him ; but if they had a Secretary or clerk , unless they gave

him an inducement in the shape of a com mission he would not try to collect the money . The clerk might be sent out on a fine day to collect , and might think it a good opportunity for taking a holiday . The payment of subscriptions was not like the payment of taxes . If brethren

promised subscriptions to Stewards you might wait a long time before the brethren promising sent the subscription to the office . If a Collector called on them they would pay . He did not stand alone in his opinion ; he had canvassed , and found several brethren entertained the same

views . He thought the Charities would lose by the proposed plan . Bro . H . G . Warren seconded the amendment . He was one of the minority in the Special Committee who voted for a Collector . When he

entered on his duties he expected they were to enquire into something , and take evidence upon it ; The resolutions which were come to were without the slightest attempt to get at any evilence whatever . ( Cries of dissent . ) ( Order ,

Royal Masonic Institution For Girls.

order . ) Bro . Symonds had gone into a statement of what took place at the Committee , and he , Bro . Warren , had a perfect right to do the same . The only tittle of evidence was a statement by the Secretary , which he thought would astonish the brethren as much as it had

astonished him , Bro . Warren , that they had 150 annual subscribers , and it had not been usual to look up the subscriber of one year for his subscription for the next year . With the embryo life subscribers it became a rule in some lodges that before they took office they should become

Life Governors of the Charities , and consequently those who had subscribed for one year were , in the course of three or four years , life subscribers . But surely out of the number of Stewards they had , they ought to have more than 150 annual subscribers . They ought to have

had evidence of that ; and he would like tn have asked Bro . Muggeridge how often he had to call upon them . Nothing of the kind took place . He would pass that over . As regarded the payment of commission , he perfectly agreed , as he

believed every one present did , that they should not pay for work not done ; they should fix a sum to be paid as commission on money collected , and pay no more . He would not put the Stewards' Lists into the hands of the Collector

in the first instance . It had been usual not to let the Collector have those lists until after the first meeting of the Stewards at least . It was so when he was a Steward ; but this was not a matter of so much importance as that they would find it difficult to place it all in one man ' s hands ,

unless they did it by making the Secretary the manager , and the sole manager , of the Institution . ( A Voice : " So he ought to be . " ) That was a matter of opinion ; he was not going to discuss that . He did not see the difficulty discovered by Bro . Raynham Stewart of getting a Collector ,

or that they could not get rid of a Collector with as much ease as they could get rid of a clerk . It did not matter what the title of the officer was ; they could dismiss one as well as the other . There was a difficulty as regarded payment , and this belonged solely to the General

Committee ; but as it was raised at the Special Committee he would not be much out of order if he stated that there was a proposition to pay not only a salary , but commission . ( A Voice : "No ; it was abandoned . " ) It was not abandoned ; it was only abandoned in so far as he

stated that this being a matter for the General Committee they could not go into it ; and the brethren said they should not press it . ( A Voice : " It was abandoned . " ) Then he was perfectly satisfied with that . He was of opinion with Bro . Smith that if they sent out clerks to collect

money in which they had no intcrestthey would not find the same amount como in as they did when they had a Collector . Bro . the Rev . A . F . A . Woodford said that this was a matter which agitated the provinces in past years very considerably , as he knew

perfectly well when acting officiall y for a large and important province . He had listened most attentively to what Bro . Symonds had said , and he felt that after that very lucid and clear Statement he was bound to «» ivr » his snnnnrt '

to the Committee . He had said to Bro . Joseph Smith on more than one occasion that he for one should be quite prepared to consider the question of the employment of a Collector as regarded thc London brethren , if they so wished it , and it would be convenient for them . But

as there were many difficulties in the way , he thought they were going to do the right thing by caking steps to prevent an abuse which had existed for years , and had prevented worth y brethren from becoming Life Governors because they would not pay a percentage for what the

Collector had not done ; they would not pay money , that is , to the institution for work never executed . The proposed plan , he believed , was not only the most business-like and strai ghtforward . but would give large additional subscriptions from the provinces . He would mention a case , a

true case , which a brother at the end of the table would confirm . In a province with which he was connected they sent up some years ago £ 2000 for the Girls' School , and on that they had to pay the Collector a sum which would amount to two life governorships , and not a sixpence of the whole subscription had passed

Royal Masonic Institution For Girls.

through the hands of the Collector . He would ask if that was not an abuse ? He believed the proposal made by the Special Committee would prevent such an abuse ; and as Freemasons did not like anything which was an abuse , he hoped that the brethren would give their

hearty support to the Committee . ( Hear , hear . ) Bro . G . M . E . Snow attacked the existing system , and contrasted it with that of the Merchant Seamen ' s Orphan Asylum and tht ^ Licensed Victuallers ' . Bro . Dr . Ramsay supported the original motion .

Bro . George Powell asked the Chairman whether the new plan was to be permanent or tentative . The Chairman said tentative . Bro . George Powell said he thought it was worth a trial . He also said he deduced from

what Bro . Warren had said , that some of the opposing brethren had not been treated quite with courtesy on the Committee , and Bro . Symonds seemed to imply that the opposing brethren had not the interests of the Institution at

heart . ( No . ) Bro . Henry Venn thought the opinion of the Committee was very evenly balanced ; but he believed that after the long experience they had had of a Collector , they could not do better than give a trial to the new feature .

Bro . Symonds , in replying upon the different arguments , said that with regard to want of courtesy that had never been suggested , and he had never meant to say that brethren not entertaining his own views were not solicitous for the welfare of the Institution . Bro . Smith had said

several times m the course of his speech that they were going to do away with the Collector . They did not propose to do a way with the Collector , They proposed to make the Secretary the Collector , as he was now the Collector of the larger portion of the subscriptions . The Committee

were precluded from going into an enquiry on the subject by Bro . Smith proposing that a Collector should be appointed . They were rather in a hurry . Bro . Smith was taking his observation about going into detail in very good part , and he ( Bro . Symonds ) did not intend certainly

to deceive him , and he thought it desirable that Bro . Smith should define what he meant . If they adopted what Bro . Smith proposed b y his amendment , if a Collector was to be paid onl y on what he received , and he applied several times for a subscription , and that subscription was

after all paid to the office , they would be bound by the resolution , and could not give him a sixpence commission . There seemed to be an impression that if the subscriptions were collected by thc Secretary personally , or through his clerks , there would not be an inducement to

them to get the subscriptions in if there was no commission paid . Bro . Little had never been paid by commission ; Bro . Binckes was so paid at one time , and a certain small salary as well . That was afterwards altered , and a suitable salary was paid to him .

The amendment of Bro . ' Joseph Smith was then put and negatived , and the original motion of Bro . John Symonds was afterwards put and carried by a large majority . A vote of thanks to the Chairman concluded the proceedings .

Consecration Of The Era Chapter, No. 1423.

CONSECRATION OF THE ERA CHAPTER , No . 1423 .

On Saturday last , November 2 , 5 th , at the King ' s Arms Hotel , Hampton Court , a seventh chapter W 3 S added to the Royal Arch Masonic roll of Middlesex . The interesting ceremonies of consecration and installation were exceedingly well performed bv the M . E . P . G . S . of MirlHl ^ v

Comp . Col . Francis Burdett , aided by Comps . J . Boyd , R . W . Little , P . G . H ., and H . G . Buss , P . G . T . of Middlesex . The chapter was opened by the M . E . P . G . S ., assisted by Comps . Boyd , acting H . ; Little , acting J . Amongst the numerous and brilliant gathering present

were Comps . Stedwell , P . G . J , of Middlesex ; Roebuck , P . P . G . H . of Middlesex ; Cubitt , P . Z ., P . S . E . of Middlesex ; Woodman , P . Z ., P . G . D . C . of England , and P . P . First A . G . S . of Middlesex ; Laxton , P . Z ., P . G . R . of Middlesex ; W . Hammond , P . Second A . G . S . of Middle-

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