-
Articles/Ads
Article UNITED GRAND LODGE. ← Page 3 of 3 Article UNITED GRAND LODGE. Page 3 of 3 Article UNITED GRAND LODGE. Page 3 of 3 Article UNVEILING THE BUILDING COMMITTEES MEMORIAL AT FREEMASONS' HALL. Page 1 of 1
Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.
United Grand Lodge.
Grand Lodge and ask them to make these amendments . This subject come newly before the Board , and he had to express his opinion at the moment . But if he had time he no doubt he could give good reasons for opposing Bro .
Savage ' s motion . He felt he had not had time to make up his mind ; he wanted more experience . He should therefore wish Bro . Savage to suspend his motion , and let the Board go on a little while longer till it had had more
expe-. Bro . Joseph Smtth agreed with Bro . Clabon . He thought it was hardly fair to their president , who had been recently appointed , to require him to pronounce an opinion on the subject . Bro . Savage might first have consulted Bro . Clabon before lie
asked Grand Lodge to make the alteration . He differed altogether in opinion from Bro . Savage , and if he ( Bro . Smith ) thought for one moment that the motion would be carried , he should have a great deal to say upon it . He would ask that the amenament of Bro . Clabon should be carried , ancl
the motion referred hack lo the Committee to bring up a report which he hoped would be satisfactory . Bro . Joshua Nunn reminded Grand Lodge that he , on a former occasion , brought forward a similar proposition , but he asked the Grann Master to allow him to withdraw it , for reasons similar to
those which had been given by the President of the Board . The brethren who attended by the Board of Benevolence would agree with him that that body was hardly in working order yet , and he thought the carrying of such a proposition would be acting injudiciously .
Bro . J . Symonds must say that the result of this law was not contemplated when the alteration was before the Committee by the brother by whom the alteration was suggested . The Board had simply considered whether it was desirable that further powers should be conferred on the Lodge of
Benevolence itself to give larger sums of money than they had hitherto given without the necessity of coming to Grand Lodge . As one of the Committee he felt that it was very desirable if that increased power were granted that there should be an opportunity of recommending the point in the Lodge of
Benevolence itself before the money was paid ; but it never was contemplated—it never entered his mind that it would interfere with the recommendation of the Board of Benevolence to the Grand Lodge . Let them remember if this alteration was maintained they would place every brother , and
the unfortunate widow of any brother , m a very much worse position than they were in before the law was altered . ( Hear , hear . ) As the law stood , if the Board of Benevolence made a recommendation that did not require to be confirmed at the Board itself it was brought up to Grand Lodge ,
and Grand Lodge passed it . If it did not exceed , £ 50 , it was paid at once ; if it exceeded £$ 0 , it came to the next Grand Lodge . In no case would four and a-half months elapse before the money was paid . The accidental alteration of the lawfor he called it accidental because the whole
circumstances were not before the Board—that in cases of grants of ^ 50 sometimes three months and a-half must elapse before the money was paid ; and in cases of larger amounts frequently very nearly seven months must elapse . That really amounted to this : the greater the distress , the
greater the delay . Cerntainly , upon the point of order that had been touched upon , he thought it would have been better if Bro . Savage had consulted the President of the Board before placing the motion on the paper . He ( Bro . Symonds ) quite felt that was a mistake on the part of Bro . Savage ,
which he would admit himself he ought not to have committed . He hoped it would not be allowed to weigh , however ; if it was , they would not be doing justice to the unfortunate brethren and widows of brethren . He would heartily support the motion of Bro . Savage .
Bro . Col . Cole was not aware that there was anything but the motion of Bro . Savage before Grancl Lodge . He had heard a brother second a speech of the President of the Board of Benevolence , but there was no motion or amendment proposed by Bro . Clabon . The motion before Grand Lodge
was the motion of Bro . Savage , who he thought was in the right in the principle lie had advocated . He thought it never was intended that the Board of Benevolence should have the power to do everything without coming to Grancl Lodge , who were . after all , the people to pay the monev . The Board
of Benevolence were the pioneers of Grand Lodge , and he objected to the Board of Benevolence superseding Grand Lodge . If the Board of Benevolence recommended a sum of money to be granted by Grand Lodge it would not be necessary
in the intermediate time to get a second report , which would involve this—that the same brethren should be present at the Board . ( Hear , hear . ) It would give great trouble to members of country lodges , of which the Craft was more numerously
United Grand Lodge.
composed than of London ones . It was no trouble to the London brethren , but those who came from the North of England would find it very inconvenient . Although the rules might not actually oblige them to be at the Board , yet a case to be successful , required brethren to be present who could
speak well upon it . He thought Bro . Savages motion was necessary to carry out the benevolent intentions of this Grancl Lodge , and he should support it . If it was a point of honour between Bro . Savage and the Vice-President in not giving formal notice of the motion , it was really a weak
point . He ( Bro . Cole ) heard the question discussed at the last Board of Benevolence . There might be a certain etiquette which it was necessary to observe , but he did not think it was necessary to follow its rules in cases of this kind where it did not apply . Grand Lodge was asked to put this off ,
but were not told what specific time was required . Bro . Clabon explained that the matter was not discussed at the last Board of Benevolence , but at the Board of Masters . As to putting the matter off , he only wished it until the board had had more experience .
Bro . Horace Lloyd thought that , whether or not it would have been better for Bro . Savage to go to the President and Vice-President of the Lodge of Benevolence before bringing this motion forward , was a small matter ; but Bro . Savage was at least entitled to sav that he had not brought it forward
hastily , without due consideration , or without conferring with , and having the approval of , those whose approval might help him . Nor had he brought it forward without giving reasons , and good reasons , why the change should be made ; or without giving instances , and clear instances , in
which the present law worked harshly and unjustly . Those instances were not picked for the purpose of supporting the case ; but , as it was conceded , actually the last three or four instances were of cases where the law was enforced , and by being enforced was harsher . For himself , he should not
come forward to support the proposition of Bro . Savage if he thought the law , as it stood , led to really more careful consideration of tiie grants , and to more care before a sum of money was given ; but he believed it did not lead to irreater consideration . It led to delay only , and for this reason
—when the matter came up , after being examined , it was debated in the Lodge of Benevolence , and it was duly confirmed at another meeting , at which his practical experience led him to think it was impossible , or almost impossible , to contest it . The functions of Grand Lodge were most important
functions—holding the reins , and when there was too great liberality on the part of the Board of Benevolence , checking it . He believed there would be more real control and supervision if the matters came straight from the Lodge of Bcnevo ' enee lo to this lodge , because it would then be a real court
for the consideration of the matter . It would be their bounden duty to consider the circumstances of each case , and individually lend their minds to the matter . This very circumstance would no doubt render it not very agreeable , though he believed no brother wished to put his own feelings
in the way . It might not be so gratifying to the President and the board to find that they w-rc no longer the dispensers of the larger charities of the Order , which would be under the management and control of the Grand Lotlge ; but the control would be more real . He would support the proposition .
which , he believed , would make the control of Grand Lodge a real thing . The only effect he could see of the present system was this , that the Lodge of Benevolence , instead of Grand Lodge , reconsidered matters which it was desirable should be reconsidered . He thought it desirable that a
second body should be brought in to reconsidci matters . There was also the oilier point suggested by Bro . Cole , of the inconvenience of brethren coming a long distance a second time to support a case . Under these circumstances , after duly considering the matter , he would uphold Bro . Savage
in desiring to take the opinion of this largo assembly ; and he , for one , would give his vote for it . Bro . A . J . M'Intyrc had not intended to speak on the subject were it not for the way the matter had been met by the President of the Board of Benevolence . The new system had not yet had a
fair trial . They had adopted , after consideration , a certain mode of procedure which ought to have a fair trial ; and those brethren who constantly attended the board were able to give better data than those who only attended now and then . The case put by Bro . Horace Lloyd was that in every single
vote brought forward , because the Board of Benevolence had investigated the matter and reported on it , Grand Lodge ought not to reverse that decision . Why , there was one case some time ago where a large sum was granted , and when Grand
Lodge sent the recommendation back for reconsideration , nothing at all was granted . Do not let them be hasty . If they had been hasty in making the law , let them not be hasty in abrogating it , ancl let them be guided by those who had the best
United Grand Lodge.
opportunity of seeing the mode in which the system worked . He approved of Bro . Cole ' s oninions , which , he thought . w- > ro entitled to consideration . Bro . Savage would not consent to withdraw his motion . The Acting Grand Master : Brethren , you have
had this question now verv fullv argued . After hearing the arguments on both sides . I think it is really one on which am- brother may exercise a perfectly fair' and impartial iudgrnent . I can see myself very good reasons both for accenting the view of the proposer of this motion , nnd also for
deferring your decision to another Grand Lodge . I mccly wish to sav that T am satisfied , on the one hand , that no discourtesy has been intended—Hi ear , hear ) : I am satisfied , on the other hand , that the opposition to this prposal arises simply from a not unreasonable feeling on the part of those
who are responsible for the management of the Lodge of Bonovolenco in the proper and adequate discharge of their duties : and I . would point out to Grand Lodge that when I shall nut this question to the vote , no amendment has been moved . It will therefore be for thos" . on the one hand , who
accept this , simply to signify their assent ; on the other hand , for those who are in opposition when their turn comes , to hold up their hands to signify their dissent . No amendment whatever has been moved . I understand , and I also think it fair to sav so . the only objection of those who object to
this , to be , not that the motion should be negatived , nor again that if should be indefinitely postponed , hut that it should be adjourned simply till they , the President and the officers of the Board of Benevolence have had a little time to look round them to see the working of the new system —( hear ,
hear)and to bring themselves either to accept this pronositizn . or to make some proposal in substitution fur it . Whilst T feel that this is so open a question that I really hesitate to express any opinion of my own on the subject , I do also feel that in such a
ease as this T fear to give too great a latitude to those who arc charged with the responsibility of such a board : and T would nnt needlessly hamper them in the exercise of their duty . The motion was then nut and carried , and Grand Lodge was closed in ample form and adjourned . '
( To the Editor of The Freemason . ) SIR AND BROTHER , —Will you permit mc to state , for the information of my brethren of the Mark Decree , that I have
no connection whatever with the so-called " Oniric ! Lod ^ e of Roval Ark Mariners ;" ancl that neither I , nor Colonel Burdett , have any intention of holding office in that bodv .
I shall be glnd if matters can be so arranged with those brethren who have , in mv opinion , unadvisedly committed themselves to that organisation , as that it may snecdilv be bronrrht to an end , and a
Lodge of Advice he formed instead to assist the Grand Mark Master in working the Ark as a side degree to the Mark , which is , I think , its proper position . But whether this result be , or be not , arrived at ,
I am desirous that the members of Mark lodges , who wish to work the Ark Degree under the Mark G . L ., should be made aware that they crm do so by applying to
the Grand Mirk Secretary for authority . I am . Sir nnd Brother , Yours faithfully rud fraternally , G . R . PORTAL , Grand Mark Master .
Unveiling The Building Committees Memorial At Freemasons' Hall.
UNVEILING THE BUILDING COMMITTEES MEMORIAL AT FREEMASONS' HALL .
A full report of this ceremony is in type , but owing to the extraordinary length of our Grancl Lodge report , we must defer its insertion ( ill next week .
CIIAKI . I-. S II . IIUIW . N , chemist , Ottse Sl . Goole , writes , Feb ., 1 M 70 : — ' •Your I' .-iin Killer is one of the few patent , medicine :, 1 keep which I can confidently recommend , and I am bound to say that wherever it has been fairly tried it seems to have invariably answered its purpose well . —To Perry Davis & Son 17 , Sc-. thaniplon-row , London , W . Ci"
Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.
United Grand Lodge.
Grand Lodge and ask them to make these amendments . This subject come newly before the Board , and he had to express his opinion at the moment . But if he had time he no doubt he could give good reasons for opposing Bro .
Savage ' s motion . He felt he had not had time to make up his mind ; he wanted more experience . He should therefore wish Bro . Savage to suspend his motion , and let the Board go on a little while longer till it had had more
expe-. Bro . Joseph Smtth agreed with Bro . Clabon . He thought it was hardly fair to their president , who had been recently appointed , to require him to pronounce an opinion on the subject . Bro . Savage might first have consulted Bro . Clabon before lie
asked Grand Lodge to make the alteration . He differed altogether in opinion from Bro . Savage , and if he ( Bro . Smith ) thought for one moment that the motion would be carried , he should have a great deal to say upon it . He would ask that the amenament of Bro . Clabon should be carried , ancl
the motion referred hack lo the Committee to bring up a report which he hoped would be satisfactory . Bro . Joshua Nunn reminded Grand Lodge that he , on a former occasion , brought forward a similar proposition , but he asked the Grann Master to allow him to withdraw it , for reasons similar to
those which had been given by the President of the Board . The brethren who attended by the Board of Benevolence would agree with him that that body was hardly in working order yet , and he thought the carrying of such a proposition would be acting injudiciously .
Bro . J . Symonds must say that the result of this law was not contemplated when the alteration was before the Committee by the brother by whom the alteration was suggested . The Board had simply considered whether it was desirable that further powers should be conferred on the Lodge of
Benevolence itself to give larger sums of money than they had hitherto given without the necessity of coming to Grand Lodge . As one of the Committee he felt that it was very desirable if that increased power were granted that there should be an opportunity of recommending the point in the Lodge of
Benevolence itself before the money was paid ; but it never was contemplated—it never entered his mind that it would interfere with the recommendation of the Board of Benevolence to the Grand Lodge . Let them remember if this alteration was maintained they would place every brother , and
the unfortunate widow of any brother , m a very much worse position than they were in before the law was altered . ( Hear , hear . ) As the law stood , if the Board of Benevolence made a recommendation that did not require to be confirmed at the Board itself it was brought up to Grand Lodge ,
and Grand Lodge passed it . If it did not exceed , £ 50 , it was paid at once ; if it exceeded £$ 0 , it came to the next Grand Lodge . In no case would four and a-half months elapse before the money was paid . The accidental alteration of the lawfor he called it accidental because the whole
circumstances were not before the Board—that in cases of grants of ^ 50 sometimes three months and a-half must elapse before the money was paid ; and in cases of larger amounts frequently very nearly seven months must elapse . That really amounted to this : the greater the distress , the
greater the delay . Cerntainly , upon the point of order that had been touched upon , he thought it would have been better if Bro . Savage had consulted the President of the Board before placing the motion on the paper . He ( Bro . Symonds ) quite felt that was a mistake on the part of Bro . Savage ,
which he would admit himself he ought not to have committed . He hoped it would not be allowed to weigh , however ; if it was , they would not be doing justice to the unfortunate brethren and widows of brethren . He would heartily support the motion of Bro . Savage .
Bro . Col . Cole was not aware that there was anything but the motion of Bro . Savage before Grancl Lodge . He had heard a brother second a speech of the President of the Board of Benevolence , but there was no motion or amendment proposed by Bro . Clabon . The motion before Grand Lodge
was the motion of Bro . Savage , who he thought was in the right in the principle lie had advocated . He thought it never was intended that the Board of Benevolence should have the power to do everything without coming to Grancl Lodge , who were . after all , the people to pay the monev . The Board
of Benevolence were the pioneers of Grand Lodge , and he objected to the Board of Benevolence superseding Grand Lodge . If the Board of Benevolence recommended a sum of money to be granted by Grand Lodge it would not be necessary
in the intermediate time to get a second report , which would involve this—that the same brethren should be present at the Board . ( Hear , hear . ) It would give great trouble to members of country lodges , of which the Craft was more numerously
United Grand Lodge.
composed than of London ones . It was no trouble to the London brethren , but those who came from the North of England would find it very inconvenient . Although the rules might not actually oblige them to be at the Board , yet a case to be successful , required brethren to be present who could
speak well upon it . He thought Bro . Savages motion was necessary to carry out the benevolent intentions of this Grancl Lodge , and he should support it . If it was a point of honour between Bro . Savage and the Vice-President in not giving formal notice of the motion , it was really a weak
point . He ( Bro . Cole ) heard the question discussed at the last Board of Benevolence . There might be a certain etiquette which it was necessary to observe , but he did not think it was necessary to follow its rules in cases of this kind where it did not apply . Grand Lodge was asked to put this off ,
but were not told what specific time was required . Bro . Clabon explained that the matter was not discussed at the last Board of Benevolence , but at the Board of Masters . As to putting the matter off , he only wished it until the board had had more experience .
Bro . Horace Lloyd thought that , whether or not it would have been better for Bro . Savage to go to the President and Vice-President of the Lodge of Benevolence before bringing this motion forward , was a small matter ; but Bro . Savage was at least entitled to sav that he had not brought it forward
hastily , without due consideration , or without conferring with , and having the approval of , those whose approval might help him . Nor had he brought it forward without giving reasons , and good reasons , why the change should be made ; or without giving instances , and clear instances , in
which the present law worked harshly and unjustly . Those instances were not picked for the purpose of supporting the case ; but , as it was conceded , actually the last three or four instances were of cases where the law was enforced , and by being enforced was harsher . For himself , he should not
come forward to support the proposition of Bro . Savage if he thought the law , as it stood , led to really more careful consideration of tiie grants , and to more care before a sum of money was given ; but he believed it did not lead to irreater consideration . It led to delay only , and for this reason
—when the matter came up , after being examined , it was debated in the Lodge of Benevolence , and it was duly confirmed at another meeting , at which his practical experience led him to think it was impossible , or almost impossible , to contest it . The functions of Grand Lodge were most important
functions—holding the reins , and when there was too great liberality on the part of the Board of Benevolence , checking it . He believed there would be more real control and supervision if the matters came straight from the Lodge of Bcnevo ' enee lo to this lodge , because it would then be a real court
for the consideration of the matter . It would be their bounden duty to consider the circumstances of each case , and individually lend their minds to the matter . This very circumstance would no doubt render it not very agreeable , though he believed no brother wished to put his own feelings
in the way . It might not be so gratifying to the President and the board to find that they w-rc no longer the dispensers of the larger charities of the Order , which would be under the management and control of the Grand Lotlge ; but the control would be more real . He would support the proposition .
which , he believed , would make the control of Grand Lodge a real thing . The only effect he could see of the present system was this , that the Lodge of Benevolence , instead of Grand Lodge , reconsidered matters which it was desirable should be reconsidered . He thought it desirable that a
second body should be brought in to reconsidci matters . There was also the oilier point suggested by Bro . Cole , of the inconvenience of brethren coming a long distance a second time to support a case . Under these circumstances , after duly considering the matter , he would uphold Bro . Savage
in desiring to take the opinion of this largo assembly ; and he , for one , would give his vote for it . Bro . A . J . M'Intyrc had not intended to speak on the subject were it not for the way the matter had been met by the President of the Board of Benevolence . The new system had not yet had a
fair trial . They had adopted , after consideration , a certain mode of procedure which ought to have a fair trial ; and those brethren who constantly attended the board were able to give better data than those who only attended now and then . The case put by Bro . Horace Lloyd was that in every single
vote brought forward , because the Board of Benevolence had investigated the matter and reported on it , Grand Lodge ought not to reverse that decision . Why , there was one case some time ago where a large sum was granted , and when Grand
Lodge sent the recommendation back for reconsideration , nothing at all was granted . Do not let them be hasty . If they had been hasty in making the law , let them not be hasty in abrogating it , ancl let them be guided by those who had the best
United Grand Lodge.
opportunity of seeing the mode in which the system worked . He approved of Bro . Cole ' s oninions , which , he thought . w- > ro entitled to consideration . Bro . Savage would not consent to withdraw his motion . The Acting Grand Master : Brethren , you have
had this question now verv fullv argued . After hearing the arguments on both sides . I think it is really one on which am- brother may exercise a perfectly fair' and impartial iudgrnent . I can see myself very good reasons both for accenting the view of the proposer of this motion , nnd also for
deferring your decision to another Grand Lodge . I mccly wish to sav that T am satisfied , on the one hand , that no discourtesy has been intended—Hi ear , hear ) : I am satisfied , on the other hand , that the opposition to this prposal arises simply from a not unreasonable feeling on the part of those
who are responsible for the management of the Lodge of Bonovolenco in the proper and adequate discharge of their duties : and I . would point out to Grand Lodge that when I shall nut this question to the vote , no amendment has been moved . It will therefore be for thos" . on the one hand , who
accept this , simply to signify their assent ; on the other hand , for those who are in opposition when their turn comes , to hold up their hands to signify their dissent . No amendment whatever has been moved . I understand , and I also think it fair to sav so . the only objection of those who object to
this , to be , not that the motion should be negatived , nor again that if should be indefinitely postponed , hut that it should be adjourned simply till they , the President and the officers of the Board of Benevolence have had a little time to look round them to see the working of the new system —( hear ,
hear)and to bring themselves either to accept this pronositizn . or to make some proposal in substitution fur it . Whilst T feel that this is so open a question that I really hesitate to express any opinion of my own on the subject , I do also feel that in such a
ease as this T fear to give too great a latitude to those who arc charged with the responsibility of such a board : and T would nnt needlessly hamper them in the exercise of their duty . The motion was then nut and carried , and Grand Lodge was closed in ample form and adjourned . '
( To the Editor of The Freemason . ) SIR AND BROTHER , —Will you permit mc to state , for the information of my brethren of the Mark Decree , that I have
no connection whatever with the so-called " Oniric ! Lod ^ e of Roval Ark Mariners ;" ancl that neither I , nor Colonel Burdett , have any intention of holding office in that bodv .
I shall be glnd if matters can be so arranged with those brethren who have , in mv opinion , unadvisedly committed themselves to that organisation , as that it may snecdilv be bronrrht to an end , and a
Lodge of Advice he formed instead to assist the Grand Mark Master in working the Ark as a side degree to the Mark , which is , I think , its proper position . But whether this result be , or be not , arrived at ,
I am desirous that the members of Mark lodges , who wish to work the Ark Degree under the Mark G . L ., should be made aware that they crm do so by applying to
the Grand Mirk Secretary for authority . I am . Sir nnd Brother , Yours faithfully rud fraternally , G . R . PORTAL , Grand Mark Master .
Unveiling The Building Committees Memorial At Freemasons' Hall.
UNVEILING THE BUILDING COMMITTEES MEMORIAL AT FREEMASONS' HALL .
A full report of this ceremony is in type , but owing to the extraordinary length of our Grancl Lodge report , we must defer its insertion ( ill next week .
CIIAKI . I-. S II . IIUIW . N , chemist , Ottse Sl . Goole , writes , Feb ., 1 M 70 : — ' •Your I' .-iin Killer is one of the few patent , medicine :, 1 keep which I can confidently recommend , and I am bound to say that wherever it has been fairly tried it seems to have invariably answered its purpose well . —To Perry Davis & Son 17 , Sc-. thaniplon-row , London , W . Ci"