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  • June 8, 1872
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  • UNITED GRAND LODGE.
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United Grand Lodge.

draw his amendment , and would rely on Bro . Bennoch ' s . After a few words from Bro . F . Roxburgh ,

Q . C ., in favour of the declaration that Pure and and Ancient Masonry consists of three degrees and no more ,

A Provincial Brother stated , that Masons in the country , when any question arose in their lodges , were in the habit of inquiring what was done in similar cases in Grand Lodge . If Grand

Lodge passed this Report it was equivalent to a resolution that no brother , who happened to be a member of an extraneous Order , should hold office under Grand Lodge . This would impose a great

difficulty in many cases , because before giving office , it would be necessary to inquire whether a man was a member of the prohibited degrees .

All that Provincial Lodges required , was to know whether a man was a good Mason , and . did his duty ; and when they knew that , they knew of nothing which was a disqualification .

Bro . J ohn Havers thought they had got into a great difficulty , they had either to accept or reject the terminal portion of the Report , whic was a most unfortunate one , yet it contained in

it the elements of a great truth . Bro . Gregory had said that we could go beyond the ancient degrees of Masonry . Now he ( Bro . Havers ) denied it We were proud of our old degrees and , more , we meant to maintain them . But at the same

time , while we maintained our ancient degrees , to which we had solemnly sworn fidelity , we would give the l ' reestliberty toothers . He did not agree in

the Report of the Board of General Purposes ; he thought it a mistake ; but at the same time he should defend the Board . It had been said that

they denounced other degrees . They had not They had said that in their opinion it was very undesirable that any subordinate officer in the employment of Grand Lodge should take a

prominent part in any degree or oreler not recognised b y Grand Lodge . And so it was . Ask all the London merchants , bankers , men of business ; ask the Colonel of a regiment , if a

sergeant observant , after having done his duty for the da ; -, employs his leisure evenings in drilling some one else , whether he would allow it . ( Cries of Yes , yes ) . But an Assistant at Grand Lodge ,

though he may belong to any orderhe ' pAeases , should not go and hold a prominent place in that order . A brother had stated that in the provinces they were guieled by the action of the Grand Lodge , and no

doubt if they found that papers , connected with unrecognised degrees , went out from Grand Secretary ' s cilice , ( general expressions of dissent ) they would naturally look upon those

degrees as not being unrecognised . Biij while we were all faithful to our solemn obligations , let us be generous to all those who choose

to amuse themselves with other degrees . Let the proposition now made to Grand Lodge be the last of its kind . Let those who had read

the History of Masonry remember the 50 , 60 , or 70 years of turmoil which prevailed before two Royal Dukes got a Lodge of Rcconcilation . Brethren were to ask themselves whether the

number of elegrees existed at the time of the Union or did not . If they did exist , they were solemnly and intentionally left out . If they had been concocted since , they were of spurious origin . Somebody had said a large proportion

United Grand Lodge.

of these orders were given under spurious organisations . What had those spurious organisations brought us to ? There were not less than six or seven , each claiming to be itself supreme , and let him remind the . brethren that in

srivina ; allegiance to these smaller bodies we forgot to mention the allegiance due to the larger . These organisations , it should be borne in mind , offered no allegiance to our Grand

Master and he entreated the brethren to maintain their own three degrees . He would moreover earnestly entreat them to consider , that if it were just to require subordinate servants to

abstain from taking part in degrees which clashed with Masonry , it was just to require the superior officers . He would say , paid or unpaid , high or low , they should not take a prominent part in

the unrecognised degrees , and though not agreeing with the Report , he recommended its adoption . If it were not adopted , it would be an insult to the Board . With resrard to Bro .

Gabon ' s remark , that many members of Grand Lodge were members of the higher degrees , he would say , in Heaven ' s name let them be . Every Mason had a rig ht to join anything he

liked ; only he must not use the name , and the honour , and the position of Grand Lodge , in such a way as would confound it with them . Bro . Radch '/ le thought it would be illiberal to

prevent any officer from joining other societies , after they had done their work . There was only one point in Bro . Havers ' s address that deserved the attention of Grand Lodge , which was that

people in the country mig ht consider that if offi cers of Grand Lodge sent out papers in the un recognised degrees , those degrees had the appro bation of Grand Lodge . He supported Bro . Gre

gory ' s amendment . The Earl of Limerick took exception to the idea that there were competing jurisdictions in this country . They were independent .

Freemasons were subject to the Grand Master 111 Grand Lodge ; and if they were elsewhere , they were subject to whomsoever mig ht be their President . He himself belonged to other societies ,

but he did not less attend to the interests of the Craft , of which he was most proud to be a member , and which was the orig inal source and fount from which all the brethren seeking other

degrees must spring . He did not think himself a less worthy member of the Craft for belonging to other degrees . He objected to the Report , and would support Bro . Bennoch ' s amendment .

Bro . Stebbing , in a powerful speech , also opposed the report . Bros . Horace Lloyd and F . A . l'hilhrick

supported the Board , and after a few words from Bros . Rev . R . J . Simpson , Lord Tenterden , and James Mason ,

The Grand Master said : —Before this question is put to tiie vote , I am desirous of addressing one or two observations to Grand Lodge . It appears that the question which is raised by the

paragraph of this Report , which it is proposed not to receive , is one which is entirely within the province and authority of this Grand Lodge themselves to deal , and I do not , therefore desire that

any observations which I may make , and they will be very brief , should tend in any way to influence the vote to which Grand Lodge may come , or the view which may lie taken , in < he

United Grand Lodge.

exercise of their judgment , on this question ; because the question that is raised really by this paragraph is what , in the opinion of this Grand Lodge , ought to be laid down as regulations for

guidance and conduct of certain persons who hold salaried offices under the Grand Lodge . Now , brethren , this question is not new ; it has been now for some months before the Craft and

this Grand Loelge ; and as far back as the month of February Iast . the question having been then brought under the notice of Grand Lod ge , and consequently under my own notice , I thought itright to express

an opinion upon the subject , and to require that those who hold office in the Secretarial offices of this Lodge should conform to the views which were

so expressed . Those views were embodied in a minute , which I am now about to read . Tha minute was to the following effect . "The

Grand Master has directed that no meeting connected with unrecognised elegrees be permitted to take place on the premises restricted to the use of the Craft , and that no business relating to

such degrees be transacted by any gentleman employed in the Grand Secretary ' s office during office hours . " That minute lam prepared strictly

and fully to enforce and it would unquestionably be my duty to do so . The question before Grand Lodge now considered freely w ith regard to those of our servants—I use the term with all

respect—in our employ , is whether it is thought desirable or not desirable to impose jfurther restrictions upon those servants than are contained in this minute , which has been strictly and entirely

adhered to since the day it was issued . The question , brethren , is this " That the Grand Lodge do not receive the following words contained in the Report . ' The Board , however , are clearly of

opinion , and submit to Grand Lodge , that no clerk or other subordinate of officer in the employment of Grand Lodge should take a prominent part in any degree or Order not recognised by Grand Lodge . '"

Let Grand Loelge clearly understand . The original question was , " That this Report be received and entered upon the Minutes , " since which the amendment or resolution has been

moved , which I have read , the effect of which is to decline to receive the last sentence of that Report— " The Board , however , are clearly of opinion , and submit to Grand Lodge , that no clerk

or other subordinate officer in the employment of Grand Lodge , should take a prominent part in any degree or Order not recognised by Grand Lodge . "

On a show of hands , the Grand Master declared the amendment lost , the numbers however appearing to be nearly equal . The motion for receiving and entering the Report on the Minutes was then carried .

The Grand Master then announced that Bro , LI . Evans , the President of the Board , had requested him to relieve him of his office , which he accordingly did , and appointed and invested

Bro . Horace Lloyd , Q . C ., P . G . D ., in his place . The Scrutineers having returned , the result of the election was announced . The Annual Report of the " Royal Masonic

Benevolent Institution for Aged Freemasons and the Widows of Freemasons , " was laid before Grand Lodge , and the following alterations of the Laws , which were agreed to at the Annual General Meetinsr of the Institution held on Fri-

“The Freemason: 1872-06-08, Page 8” Masonic Periodicals Online, Library and Museum of Freemasonry, 26 May 2025, django:8000/periodicals/fvl/issues/fvl_08061872/page/8/.
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Title Category Page
TABLE OF CONTENTS Article 1
AIDS TO STUDY. Article 1
CONSECRATION OF THE FRIENDS IN COUNCIL LODGE, No. 1383. Article 2
HISTORICAL NOTICE OF THE ST. CLAIRS OF ROSSLYN, GRAND MASTER MASONS OF SCOTLAND. Article 3
Untitled Article 6
Untitled Article 6
Untitled Article 6
Untitled Article 6
UNITED GRAND LODGE. Article 6
GRAND LODGE OF MARK MASTER MASONS. Article 9
REPORTS OF MASONIC MEETINGS. Article 10
CHANNEL ISLANDS. Article 10
Royal Arch. Article 11
Obituary. Article 11
Original Correspondence. Article 12
ROYAL MASONIC INSTITUTION FOR BOYS. Article 12
METROPOLITAN MASONIC MEETINGS. Article 12
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United Grand Lodge.

draw his amendment , and would rely on Bro . Bennoch ' s . After a few words from Bro . F . Roxburgh ,

Q . C ., in favour of the declaration that Pure and and Ancient Masonry consists of three degrees and no more ,

A Provincial Brother stated , that Masons in the country , when any question arose in their lodges , were in the habit of inquiring what was done in similar cases in Grand Lodge . If Grand

Lodge passed this Report it was equivalent to a resolution that no brother , who happened to be a member of an extraneous Order , should hold office under Grand Lodge . This would impose a great

difficulty in many cases , because before giving office , it would be necessary to inquire whether a man was a member of the prohibited degrees .

All that Provincial Lodges required , was to know whether a man was a good Mason , and . did his duty ; and when they knew that , they knew of nothing which was a disqualification .

Bro . J ohn Havers thought they had got into a great difficulty , they had either to accept or reject the terminal portion of the Report , whic was a most unfortunate one , yet it contained in

it the elements of a great truth . Bro . Gregory had said that we could go beyond the ancient degrees of Masonry . Now he ( Bro . Havers ) denied it We were proud of our old degrees and , more , we meant to maintain them . But at the same

time , while we maintained our ancient degrees , to which we had solemnly sworn fidelity , we would give the l ' reestliberty toothers . He did not agree in

the Report of the Board of General Purposes ; he thought it a mistake ; but at the same time he should defend the Board . It had been said that

they denounced other degrees . They had not They had said that in their opinion it was very undesirable that any subordinate officer in the employment of Grand Lodge should take a

prominent part in any degree or oreler not recognised b y Grand Lodge . And so it was . Ask all the London merchants , bankers , men of business ; ask the Colonel of a regiment , if a

sergeant observant , after having done his duty for the da ; -, employs his leisure evenings in drilling some one else , whether he would allow it . ( Cries of Yes , yes ) . But an Assistant at Grand Lodge ,

though he may belong to any orderhe ' pAeases , should not go and hold a prominent place in that order . A brother had stated that in the provinces they were guieled by the action of the Grand Lodge , and no

doubt if they found that papers , connected with unrecognised degrees , went out from Grand Secretary ' s cilice , ( general expressions of dissent ) they would naturally look upon those

degrees as not being unrecognised . Biij while we were all faithful to our solemn obligations , let us be generous to all those who choose

to amuse themselves with other degrees . Let the proposition now made to Grand Lodge be the last of its kind . Let those who had read

the History of Masonry remember the 50 , 60 , or 70 years of turmoil which prevailed before two Royal Dukes got a Lodge of Rcconcilation . Brethren were to ask themselves whether the

number of elegrees existed at the time of the Union or did not . If they did exist , they were solemnly and intentionally left out . If they had been concocted since , they were of spurious origin . Somebody had said a large proportion

United Grand Lodge.

of these orders were given under spurious organisations . What had those spurious organisations brought us to ? There were not less than six or seven , each claiming to be itself supreme , and let him remind the . brethren that in

srivina ; allegiance to these smaller bodies we forgot to mention the allegiance due to the larger . These organisations , it should be borne in mind , offered no allegiance to our Grand

Master and he entreated the brethren to maintain their own three degrees . He would moreover earnestly entreat them to consider , that if it were just to require subordinate servants to

abstain from taking part in degrees which clashed with Masonry , it was just to require the superior officers . He would say , paid or unpaid , high or low , they should not take a prominent part in

the unrecognised degrees , and though not agreeing with the Report , he recommended its adoption . If it were not adopted , it would be an insult to the Board . With resrard to Bro .

Gabon ' s remark , that many members of Grand Lodge were members of the higher degrees , he would say , in Heaven ' s name let them be . Every Mason had a rig ht to join anything he

liked ; only he must not use the name , and the honour , and the position of Grand Lodge , in such a way as would confound it with them . Bro . Radch '/ le thought it would be illiberal to

prevent any officer from joining other societies , after they had done their work . There was only one point in Bro . Havers ' s address that deserved the attention of Grand Lodge , which was that

people in the country mig ht consider that if offi cers of Grand Lodge sent out papers in the un recognised degrees , those degrees had the appro bation of Grand Lodge . He supported Bro . Gre

gory ' s amendment . The Earl of Limerick took exception to the idea that there were competing jurisdictions in this country . They were independent .

Freemasons were subject to the Grand Master 111 Grand Lodge ; and if they were elsewhere , they were subject to whomsoever mig ht be their President . He himself belonged to other societies ,

but he did not less attend to the interests of the Craft , of which he was most proud to be a member , and which was the orig inal source and fount from which all the brethren seeking other

degrees must spring . He did not think himself a less worthy member of the Craft for belonging to other degrees . He objected to the Report , and would support Bro . Bennoch ' s amendment .

Bro . Stebbing , in a powerful speech , also opposed the report . Bros . Horace Lloyd and F . A . l'hilhrick

supported the Board , and after a few words from Bros . Rev . R . J . Simpson , Lord Tenterden , and James Mason ,

The Grand Master said : —Before this question is put to tiie vote , I am desirous of addressing one or two observations to Grand Lodge . It appears that the question which is raised by the

paragraph of this Report , which it is proposed not to receive , is one which is entirely within the province and authority of this Grand Lodge themselves to deal , and I do not , therefore desire that

any observations which I may make , and they will be very brief , should tend in any way to influence the vote to which Grand Lodge may come , or the view which may lie taken , in < he

United Grand Lodge.

exercise of their judgment , on this question ; because the question that is raised really by this paragraph is what , in the opinion of this Grand Lodge , ought to be laid down as regulations for

guidance and conduct of certain persons who hold salaried offices under the Grand Lodge . Now , brethren , this question is not new ; it has been now for some months before the Craft and

this Grand Loelge ; and as far back as the month of February Iast . the question having been then brought under the notice of Grand Lod ge , and consequently under my own notice , I thought itright to express

an opinion upon the subject , and to require that those who hold office in the Secretarial offices of this Lodge should conform to the views which were

so expressed . Those views were embodied in a minute , which I am now about to read . Tha minute was to the following effect . "The

Grand Master has directed that no meeting connected with unrecognised elegrees be permitted to take place on the premises restricted to the use of the Craft , and that no business relating to

such degrees be transacted by any gentleman employed in the Grand Secretary ' s office during office hours . " That minute lam prepared strictly

and fully to enforce and it would unquestionably be my duty to do so . The question before Grand Lodge now considered freely w ith regard to those of our servants—I use the term with all

respect—in our employ , is whether it is thought desirable or not desirable to impose jfurther restrictions upon those servants than are contained in this minute , which has been strictly and entirely

adhered to since the day it was issued . The question , brethren , is this " That the Grand Lodge do not receive the following words contained in the Report . ' The Board , however , are clearly of

opinion , and submit to Grand Lodge , that no clerk or other subordinate of officer in the employment of Grand Lodge should take a prominent part in any degree or Order not recognised by Grand Lodge . '"

Let Grand Loelge clearly understand . The original question was , " That this Report be received and entered upon the Minutes , " since which the amendment or resolution has been

moved , which I have read , the effect of which is to decline to receive the last sentence of that Report— " The Board , however , are clearly of opinion , and submit to Grand Lodge , that no clerk

or other subordinate officer in the employment of Grand Lodge , should take a prominent part in any degree or Order not recognised by Grand Lodge . "

On a show of hands , the Grand Master declared the amendment lost , the numbers however appearing to be nearly equal . The motion for receiving and entering the Report on the Minutes was then carried .

The Grand Master then announced that Bro , LI . Evans , the President of the Board , had requested him to relieve him of his office , which he accordingly did , and appointed and invested

Bro . Horace Lloyd , Q . C ., P . G . D ., in his place . The Scrutineers having returned , the result of the election was announced . The Annual Report of the " Royal Masonic

Benevolent Institution for Aged Freemasons and the Widows of Freemasons , " was laid before Grand Lodge , and the following alterations of the Laws , which were agreed to at the Annual General Meetinsr of the Institution held on Fri-

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