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    Article UNITED GRAND LODGE OF ENGLAND. ← Page 3 of 4
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Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.

United Grand Lodge Of England.

years , and the late lamented Col . Shadwell Clerke , Grand Secretary , was perhaps the only Grand Officer who really knew anything at all about it . It was only in 1 S 89 that he ( Bro . Philbrick ) was first acquainted with it . He was not a member of the Colonial Board ; he never was till last year ; never attended a meeting , and was onl y asked to o-jve a ruling . It was , therefore , inaccurate to insinuate

that the Grand Officers themselves had anything ' to do with this Cambrian Lodge , or any transaction with it except what he ( Bro . Philbrick ) told them . The lodge had actuall y ignored its duties to Grand Lodge for four years ; it had never sent in a return , had never paid its fees ; and as far as Grand Lodge was concerned was left entirely out in the cold . It was quite true that at that time certain brethren belonging to different Constitutions , some

Eng lish , some Scotch , some Irish , in New South Wales had started the formation of a Grand Lodge there which had not been recognised , and was at that time an entirely unrecognised Masonic body . In 18 S 8 they had Lord Carnarvon ' s visit to the Colony , and he endeavoured to promote Masonic harmony there , and the joining of all lodges to the new Grand Lodge . There were 80 of our lod ges there at the time , including this

Cambrian Lodge , and now let him protest emphatically against the fuss sought to be raised on this question . They were told that since 1779 there had been a consistent policy of Grand Lodge that Rule 219 should be read in the way they supposed . What they meant was this , and he asked Grand Lodge carefullv to wei gh it , that any three brethren in a lodge in a p lace where the English jurisdiction came out , and a new jurisdiction came

in , could insist on holding their English warrant . ( Hear , hear ) . As a matter of law , as their legal adviser , he ventured to tell them that was not the law . ( Cries of "No , no . " ) They were not there as a debating Society . Grand Lodge was called upon to exercise one of its greatest and hig hest constitutional functions , namely , to declare by the mouth of the oldest Grand Lodge existing in the worldwhat this Masonic

, law was . He was sure that Grand Lodge was an assembly of men of wise , fair , sober judgment , wishing to act according to the best of their ability , and not to be drawn one way or the other , simply because they thought a case was hard . It was in that spirit he endeavoured to approach the subject . Reference had been made to the case of the Lodge of Antiquityin 1779 . A more unfortunate instance could not have been brour / ht

forward . It was useless telling of what the laws had been unless they appealed tothe laws for the time being . In 1779 therewere two Grand Lodges existing in England , the Ancients and the Moderns . Some members of a lod ge holding under one seceded and went off to the other . That was no case where there was no Grand Lodge , and he wanted the brethren to understand this great principle

underlying the whole question , when these three brethren seceded it was unlawful for the Grand Master in future to grant a warrant . From the moment the Grand Lodge of England recognised the Grand Lodge of New South Wales the jurisdiction and right of the Grand Master of England to grant a warrant ceased . In similar cases it had always been usual to stipulate that when the lod ges wished to remain they

should not be , to use a modern word , boycotted by the brethren of thc new lodge , but that the brethren of the new lodge should receive them and recognise them as brethren . That was the stipulation made here . It was made in thc case of Canada , South Australia , and Ncw South Wales , but they were thc only instances where this question had arisen where the territory had seceded . Let him

say that people who drew resolutions , and put down such words on the face of thc resolution , they were putting before the brethren what was calculated to mislead . They said it wns the uniform practice of Grand Lodge . He said the uniform praetii c—and he challenged them to name a case to the contrary—had been to permit the brethren—always the majority of the lod

ge—to take that lodge over , and it was only where the majority determined to exist under this Constitution that it was allowed . He asked the mover of this resolution , or the seconder , or anyone who was competent to do so , to contradict him . The uniform practice always had been where a majority of the brethren were in favour of taking the lodge over that they had taken the lodge over . Of course , they heard of irrecfular meetiiitrs . In

the case of New Zealand , they met under the English warrant . If they chose to meet thc brethren out of lodge they could do it ; they could not do it in lodge—that was the New South Wales decision , that they could not meet and discuss in a lod ge an act which would be really an act of repudiating the English authority . Unless that were so no Grand bod y could ever exist , and very few lodges here would have gone over , because there were always lodges with 40 , * - < i , or 60 brethren in them , some of whom

would dissent . That human impediment , from which Masons were not free , existed ; there were always two or three who would wish to distinguish themselves . Hc had no doubt there was a minority of three who dissented , out the rule always had been that the majority of a lodge must regulate tlie minority . The brethren knew that there were always brethren more active than the resistcrs . There would be a certain number of

, 'lerents ° ' . a motion , and when they got a majority then those who "ad been waiting , or , as it was called , sitting on thc fence to see how things went , up they came and were apt to go with the majority . That was what "appened in this case . There was an irregular meeting . Three brethren would not vote , and the Chairman had a casting vote . Other members ¦ warcis

"" - * - , gave in their adherence , including some of those who first dissented . Bro . live believed he had made out there was no majority . There was a majority . The last returns showed that 10 did vote . They had done «* nat some lodges abroad , he was sorry to say , did , they wanted some iitiates , and , to enable them to get initiates , they sent the 7 s . 6 d ., but they ' ? pt Grand Lodge without returns until the ouestion had arisen . What t 0

-in 1 1 Sa ^ lhat * " ^ ho se brethren now protesting were 20 in number , 'Cl onl y 20 . There were 26 who were the other way . Of the 20 , four had bi . t i " S istered here at all . It might be the fault of their officers , I od r G names of tl , ese brethren did not appear in the books of Grand li ' oi S ° ' At " 10 St - * lere werc l ? ' ant * now t'lcsc -7 * *> " Grant us recognii ,,- as a . gul'ir Cambrian Lodge . " ( Mear , hear . ) Let him point out what

tool 1 A ' tmvards the Master , rightly or wrongly , and the Wardens , t * , r t ' 1 warr a'it to the District Grand Secretary , who was the new Secrevvho v Dislrict Gr : wd Lodge of New South Wales . Thc brethren , „ dissented asked to have the warrant back ; they could not satisi * Vi ° lt " " * lley werc tl , c , ninority * ' J- | lc Grand Secretary *' nd " - < se 'f that thc majority had desired to give up the warrant , I acl " *> g on the distinct authority which was given to the new Grand < Jth T ? ' ' - to be permitted to retain their old warrant . On December Gr .- [ nd orders of his Roynl Hi ghness , . ** loiter was written that the lod ' ce 1 C ' 4 kccn recognised on the usual conditions , that should any t > under the English jurisdiction desire to retain its position under the

United Grand Lodge Of England.

English jurisdiction it should do so . ( Hear , hear . ) That was perfectly true . If the majority wished it —}* cs ; if the minority wished it—no . ( Cries of " No , no . " ) Now , there was the point of difference . Addressed to Lord Carrington was a letter to say that there was no objection to this course provided thoy endorsed 011 the margin a memorandum to that effect . A proper cancelling stamp was provided and it was applied to the margin of

every one of those warrants so sent in . When he came to the notice of a wrong done it was done under the sanction of the lodge of New South Wales . It had been done ; it could not be helped ; neither the Grand Master nor any Masonic body could grant a warrant with New South Wales now . No working could take place under it ; and when the Colonial Board passed the recommendation for a warrant of confirmation , let him point out that a

warrant of confirmation could only be granted where a warrant had been lost or stolen . As a matter of fact , the brethren said that this warrant had been taken from them surreptitiously , and they would not be able , after trying everything , to get it . After enquiry had been made by the authority of the Grand Lodge of New South Wales to see what would become of it , it came out that the warrant bad been sent in and was cancelled , so that

nothing possibly could be done . ' The Colonial Board could do nothing ;• the Grand Master could not grant a warrant of confirmation ; it was not in the Constitutions ; he could not . give a new warrant ; and , therefore , what could be done ? The truth was , the majority of the brethren , acting on the wish of the majority , got that warrant cancelled . The matter stood in that way . In matters of this kind , the only person who granted warrants

was the Grand Master . Grand Lodge itself had no power to granta warrant ; Grand Lodge was the only body to take away a warrant , but only for Masonic offences ; but when Grand Lodge recognised a foreign jurisdiction all the warrants of Grand Lodge in that jurisdiction came to an end ; it could only send warrants in parts where the English Masonic jurisdiction went . Therefore he failed to see how possibly any resolution of Grand Lodge

could affect the matter . It had been done ; they could not put the Grand Master , who was the patron of Grand Lodge of New South Wales , in that position ; that would not be the desire of Grand Lodge , nor would it be the desire of the Grand Master , for it could not be done under the Constitutions . 1 he article said most distinctly when attention had been called to it— " the brethren desiring to retain their allegiance . "

Those words which were in the book of 1 853 were struck out in 1 SS 3 , because it was thought the ) ' were useless , and possibly they might give rise to some misunderstanding . ( Cries of " No , no . " ) First of all the alterations showed that it was not a question of allegiance to Grand Lodge , nor allegiance to their own lodge , but a question of uniform usage of Grand Lodge . By law a majority of the

brethren of a lodge could determine whether they would secede or not . When a warrant was sent back that warrant was cancelled ; it was impossible for anything further to be done . This resolution he ventured to tell Grand Lodge . A change of jurisdiction was quite a question of Masonic as of international law . Neither Article 219 nor any article of the Book of Constitutions could change it . Hc therefore appealed to Grand Lodge to deal

with the question as within the meaning of the Book of Constitutions . In 1891 Grand Lodge endorsed that view , and it could not that night pass that resolution without stultifying itself . Hc apologised to Grand Lodge for occupying so much of its time , but he did most earnestly beg them to consider that that was not a personal question at all . If it could have possibly been arranged by any accommodation he was sure the late Col . Shadwell

Clerke , than whom a more kind-hearted Mason or man never served the Craft , would have done it . To use a vulgar phrase , it was now past praying for ; nothing could be done ; any resolution of Grand Lodge in that sense could not have any effect , because the territory was ceded . He most earnestly asked Grand Lodge to pause , and not to put a construction on the

Book of Constitutions which would hamper Grand Lodge in future in other cases . It might have the unhappy effect of influencing the Grand Master with regard to ncw lodges in different parts of thc world . ( Cries of "Vote , vote . " ) Bro . the Rev . R . J . Simpson rose to speak , and a large number of brethren proceeded to leave the hall .

I he Earl of MOUNT EDGCUMBE appealed to thebrethren to stay ; the matter was very important . Bro . the Rev . R . J . SIMPSON said he would occupy but very few minutes . He expressed deep regret that there should have been any personalities , but hc wanted the matter looked at in a clear , dry , legal , just way . All who had listened to Bro . Philbrick must give him the credit ol looking at thc

matter in a kind and generous point of view . He felt , however—it might be from his own want of intelligence—a great difficulty as to which way to vote , and this resolution could not be passed without more or less of a certain amount of justice . Under such circumstances , and looking at the matter from both sides , and giving the brethren full credit for courageous convictions , aud for a desire to uphold the lawful authority of Grand Lodge ,

he would move the previous question . ( Cries of " No , no , " and " Vote , vote . " ) Bro . S . R . BA . SKETT did not propose to follow the heap of arguments that had fallen from Bro . Eve and Bro . Philbrick . Bro . Eve had put the case of the lodge clearly and distinctly . On behalf of the Cambrian Lodge , he must say Bro . Eve had well put the facts before Grand Lodge . This was not a new question ; it had been discussed since it lirst arose in 1888 ,

both in the colony and in New Zealand . It had been discussed in District Grand Lodge , and under the sister jurisdictions of Scotland and Ireland . They might say Scotland was nothing to us ; but the wording of thc Constitutions of Scotland was precisely the same as of the English Constitutions . It was put before the Grand Lodge of Scotland , and they gave their entire approval of the ruling of Sir F . Whitaker , in favour

of the protection of the loyal minority , lhey decided that the minority of three in any case could hold their own . To hold otherwise would bring us in conllict with both thc Sister Grand Lodges of Scotland and Ireland , At thc time the Cambrian Lodge sent their first appeal there was an unrecognised Grand Body in the colony . They wrote for advice and assistance of Grand Lodge in maintaining their rights . It was sent on November

Sth , 188 S . Thc warrant was handed over surreptitiousl y by an unauthorised person . Without going into every personal matter was it not an extraordinary thing lhat four years and-a-half had elapsed before this matter was brought forward ' . ' He had himself tried to bring it forward , but every time he had been prevented . They did not wish to raise any question

which might seem to go against the Grand Registrar , but they thought hc had misread the law , and they appealed to Grand Lodge , whicli was thc body to decide such questions and to assist brethren in maintaining their rights . Now they were here he hoped they would not be sent away emptyhanded . It was a distinctly parallel case to the case of Quebec . It was

“The Freemason: 1893-06-10, Page 3” Masonic Periodicals Online, Library and Museum of Freemasonry, 4 Aug. 2025, django:8000/periodicals/fvl/issues/fvl_10061893/page/3/.
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Title Category Page
UNITED GRAND LODGE OF ENGLAND. Article 1
GRAND LODGE OF MARK MASTER MASONS. Article 4
CONSECRATION OF THE MOLESEY LODGE,No.2473. Article 5
Untitled Article 6
CONSECRATION OF THE ROYAL ALFRED CHAPTER, No. 777. Article 6
A MASONIC CONGRESS. Article 7
OUR BOYS. Article 7
RESUSCITATION OF THE DOYLE CONCLAVE. No. 7. GUERNSEY. Article 7
The Craft Abroad. Article 7
Untitled Ad 8
Untitled Ad 8
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To Correspondents. Article 9
Untitled Article 9
Masonic Notes. Article 9
Masonic Notes and Queries. Article 10
REPORTS OF MASONIC MEETINGS. Article 10
PROVINCIAL MEETINGS. Article 10
Ancient and Accepted Rite. Article 12
ANNUAL SUPPER OF THE BROWNRIGG LODGE OF INSTRUCTION. Article 12
Obituary. Article 12
TABLE D'HOTE DINNERS IN RAILWAY TRAINS. Article 12
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Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.

United Grand Lodge Of England.

years , and the late lamented Col . Shadwell Clerke , Grand Secretary , was perhaps the only Grand Officer who really knew anything at all about it . It was only in 1 S 89 that he ( Bro . Philbrick ) was first acquainted with it . He was not a member of the Colonial Board ; he never was till last year ; never attended a meeting , and was onl y asked to o-jve a ruling . It was , therefore , inaccurate to insinuate

that the Grand Officers themselves had anything ' to do with this Cambrian Lodge , or any transaction with it except what he ( Bro . Philbrick ) told them . The lodge had actuall y ignored its duties to Grand Lodge for four years ; it had never sent in a return , had never paid its fees ; and as far as Grand Lodge was concerned was left entirely out in the cold . It was quite true that at that time certain brethren belonging to different Constitutions , some

Eng lish , some Scotch , some Irish , in New South Wales had started the formation of a Grand Lodge there which had not been recognised , and was at that time an entirely unrecognised Masonic body . In 18 S 8 they had Lord Carnarvon ' s visit to the Colony , and he endeavoured to promote Masonic harmony there , and the joining of all lodges to the new Grand Lodge . There were 80 of our lod ges there at the time , including this

Cambrian Lodge , and now let him protest emphatically against the fuss sought to be raised on this question . They were told that since 1779 there had been a consistent policy of Grand Lodge that Rule 219 should be read in the way they supposed . What they meant was this , and he asked Grand Lodge carefullv to wei gh it , that any three brethren in a lodge in a p lace where the English jurisdiction came out , and a new jurisdiction came

in , could insist on holding their English warrant . ( Hear , hear ) . As a matter of law , as their legal adviser , he ventured to tell them that was not the law . ( Cries of "No , no . " ) They were not there as a debating Society . Grand Lodge was called upon to exercise one of its greatest and hig hest constitutional functions , namely , to declare by the mouth of the oldest Grand Lodge existing in the worldwhat this Masonic

, law was . He was sure that Grand Lodge was an assembly of men of wise , fair , sober judgment , wishing to act according to the best of their ability , and not to be drawn one way or the other , simply because they thought a case was hard . It was in that spirit he endeavoured to approach the subject . Reference had been made to the case of the Lodge of Antiquityin 1779 . A more unfortunate instance could not have been brour / ht

forward . It was useless telling of what the laws had been unless they appealed tothe laws for the time being . In 1779 therewere two Grand Lodges existing in England , the Ancients and the Moderns . Some members of a lod ge holding under one seceded and went off to the other . That was no case where there was no Grand Lodge , and he wanted the brethren to understand this great principle

underlying the whole question , when these three brethren seceded it was unlawful for the Grand Master in future to grant a warrant . From the moment the Grand Lodge of England recognised the Grand Lodge of New South Wales the jurisdiction and right of the Grand Master of England to grant a warrant ceased . In similar cases it had always been usual to stipulate that when the lod ges wished to remain they

should not be , to use a modern word , boycotted by the brethren of thc new lodge , but that the brethren of the new lodge should receive them and recognise them as brethren . That was the stipulation made here . It was made in thc case of Canada , South Australia , and Ncw South Wales , but they were thc only instances where this question had arisen where the territory had seceded . Let him

say that people who drew resolutions , and put down such words on the face of thc resolution , they were putting before the brethren what was calculated to mislead . They said it wns the uniform practice of Grand Lodge . He said the uniform praetii c—and he challenged them to name a case to the contrary—had been to permit the brethren—always the majority of the lod

ge—to take that lodge over , and it was only where the majority determined to exist under this Constitution that it was allowed . He asked the mover of this resolution , or the seconder , or anyone who was competent to do so , to contradict him . The uniform practice always had been where a majority of the brethren were in favour of taking the lodge over that they had taken the lodge over . Of course , they heard of irrecfular meetiiitrs . In

the case of New Zealand , they met under the English warrant . If they chose to meet thc brethren out of lodge they could do it ; they could not do it in lodge—that was the New South Wales decision , that they could not meet and discuss in a lod ge an act which would be really an act of repudiating the English authority . Unless that were so no Grand bod y could ever exist , and very few lodges here would have gone over , because there were always lodges with 40 , * - < i , or 60 brethren in them , some of whom

would dissent . That human impediment , from which Masons were not free , existed ; there were always two or three who would wish to distinguish themselves . Hc had no doubt there was a minority of three who dissented , out the rule always had been that the majority of a lodge must regulate tlie minority . The brethren knew that there were always brethren more active than the resistcrs . There would be a certain number of

, 'lerents ° ' . a motion , and when they got a majority then those who "ad been waiting , or , as it was called , sitting on thc fence to see how things went , up they came and were apt to go with the majority . That was what "appened in this case . There was an irregular meeting . Three brethren would not vote , and the Chairman had a casting vote . Other members ¦ warcis

"" - * - , gave in their adherence , including some of those who first dissented . Bro . live believed he had made out there was no majority . There was a majority . The last returns showed that 10 did vote . They had done «* nat some lodges abroad , he was sorry to say , did , they wanted some iitiates , and , to enable them to get initiates , they sent the 7 s . 6 d ., but they ' ? pt Grand Lodge without returns until the ouestion had arisen . What t 0

-in 1 1 Sa ^ lhat * " ^ ho se brethren now protesting were 20 in number , 'Cl onl y 20 . There were 26 who were the other way . Of the 20 , four had bi . t i " S istered here at all . It might be the fault of their officers , I od r G names of tl , ese brethren did not appear in the books of Grand li ' oi S ° ' At " 10 St - * lere werc l ? ' ant * now t'lcsc -7 * *> " Grant us recognii ,,- as a . gul'ir Cambrian Lodge . " ( Mear , hear . ) Let him point out what

tool 1 A ' tmvards the Master , rightly or wrongly , and the Wardens , t * , r t ' 1 warr a'it to the District Grand Secretary , who was the new Secrevvho v Dislrict Gr : wd Lodge of New South Wales . Thc brethren , „ dissented asked to have the warrant back ; they could not satisi * Vi ° lt " " * lley werc tl , c , ninority * ' J- | lc Grand Secretary *' nd " - < se 'f that thc majority had desired to give up the warrant , I acl " *> g on the distinct authority which was given to the new Grand < Jth T ? ' ' - to be permitted to retain their old warrant . On December Gr .- [ nd orders of his Roynl Hi ghness , . ** loiter was written that the lod ' ce 1 C ' 4 kccn recognised on the usual conditions , that should any t > under the English jurisdiction desire to retain its position under the

United Grand Lodge Of England.

English jurisdiction it should do so . ( Hear , hear . ) That was perfectly true . If the majority wished it —}* cs ; if the minority wished it—no . ( Cries of " No , no . " ) Now , there was the point of difference . Addressed to Lord Carrington was a letter to say that there was no objection to this course provided thoy endorsed 011 the margin a memorandum to that effect . A proper cancelling stamp was provided and it was applied to the margin of

every one of those warrants so sent in . When he came to the notice of a wrong done it was done under the sanction of the lodge of New South Wales . It had been done ; it could not be helped ; neither the Grand Master nor any Masonic body could grant a warrant with New South Wales now . No working could take place under it ; and when the Colonial Board passed the recommendation for a warrant of confirmation , let him point out that a

warrant of confirmation could only be granted where a warrant had been lost or stolen . As a matter of fact , the brethren said that this warrant had been taken from them surreptitiously , and they would not be able , after trying everything , to get it . After enquiry had been made by the authority of the Grand Lodge of New South Wales to see what would become of it , it came out that the warrant bad been sent in and was cancelled , so that

nothing possibly could be done . ' The Colonial Board could do nothing ;• the Grand Master could not grant a warrant of confirmation ; it was not in the Constitutions ; he could not . give a new warrant ; and , therefore , what could be done ? The truth was , the majority of the brethren , acting on the wish of the majority , got that warrant cancelled . The matter stood in that way . In matters of this kind , the only person who granted warrants

was the Grand Master . Grand Lodge itself had no power to granta warrant ; Grand Lodge was the only body to take away a warrant , but only for Masonic offences ; but when Grand Lodge recognised a foreign jurisdiction all the warrants of Grand Lodge in that jurisdiction came to an end ; it could only send warrants in parts where the English Masonic jurisdiction went . Therefore he failed to see how possibly any resolution of Grand Lodge

could affect the matter . It had been done ; they could not put the Grand Master , who was the patron of Grand Lodge of New South Wales , in that position ; that would not be the desire of Grand Lodge , nor would it be the desire of the Grand Master , for it could not be done under the Constitutions . 1 he article said most distinctly when attention had been called to it— " the brethren desiring to retain their allegiance . "

Those words which were in the book of 1 853 were struck out in 1 SS 3 , because it was thought the ) ' were useless , and possibly they might give rise to some misunderstanding . ( Cries of " No , no . " ) First of all the alterations showed that it was not a question of allegiance to Grand Lodge , nor allegiance to their own lodge , but a question of uniform usage of Grand Lodge . By law a majority of the

brethren of a lodge could determine whether they would secede or not . When a warrant was sent back that warrant was cancelled ; it was impossible for anything further to be done . This resolution he ventured to tell Grand Lodge . A change of jurisdiction was quite a question of Masonic as of international law . Neither Article 219 nor any article of the Book of Constitutions could change it . Hc therefore appealed to Grand Lodge to deal

with the question as within the meaning of the Book of Constitutions . In 1891 Grand Lodge endorsed that view , and it could not that night pass that resolution without stultifying itself . Hc apologised to Grand Lodge for occupying so much of its time , but he did most earnestly beg them to consider that that was not a personal question at all . If it could have possibly been arranged by any accommodation he was sure the late Col . Shadwell

Clerke , than whom a more kind-hearted Mason or man never served the Craft , would have done it . To use a vulgar phrase , it was now past praying for ; nothing could be done ; any resolution of Grand Lodge in that sense could not have any effect , because the territory was ceded . He most earnestly asked Grand Lodge to pause , and not to put a construction on the

Book of Constitutions which would hamper Grand Lodge in future in other cases . It might have the unhappy effect of influencing the Grand Master with regard to ncw lodges in different parts of thc world . ( Cries of "Vote , vote . " ) Bro . the Rev . R . J . Simpson rose to speak , and a large number of brethren proceeded to leave the hall .

I he Earl of MOUNT EDGCUMBE appealed to thebrethren to stay ; the matter was very important . Bro . the Rev . R . J . SIMPSON said he would occupy but very few minutes . He expressed deep regret that there should have been any personalities , but hc wanted the matter looked at in a clear , dry , legal , just way . All who had listened to Bro . Philbrick must give him the credit ol looking at thc

matter in a kind and generous point of view . He felt , however—it might be from his own want of intelligence—a great difficulty as to which way to vote , and this resolution could not be passed without more or less of a certain amount of justice . Under such circumstances , and looking at the matter from both sides , and giving the brethren full credit for courageous convictions , aud for a desire to uphold the lawful authority of Grand Lodge ,

he would move the previous question . ( Cries of " No , no , " and " Vote , vote . " ) Bro . S . R . BA . SKETT did not propose to follow the heap of arguments that had fallen from Bro . Eve and Bro . Philbrick . Bro . Eve had put the case of the lodge clearly and distinctly . On behalf of the Cambrian Lodge , he must say Bro . Eve had well put the facts before Grand Lodge . This was not a new question ; it had been discussed since it lirst arose in 1888 ,

both in the colony and in New Zealand . It had been discussed in District Grand Lodge , and under the sister jurisdictions of Scotland and Ireland . They might say Scotland was nothing to us ; but the wording of thc Constitutions of Scotland was precisely the same as of the English Constitutions . It was put before the Grand Lodge of Scotland , and they gave their entire approval of the ruling of Sir F . Whitaker , in favour

of the protection of the loyal minority , lhey decided that the minority of three in any case could hold their own . To hold otherwise would bring us in conllict with both thc Sister Grand Lodges of Scotland and Ireland , At thc time the Cambrian Lodge sent their first appeal there was an unrecognised Grand Body in the colony . They wrote for advice and assistance of Grand Lodge in maintaining their rights . It was sent on November

Sth , 188 S . Thc warrant was handed over surreptitiousl y by an unauthorised person . Without going into every personal matter was it not an extraordinary thing lhat four years and-a-half had elapsed before this matter was brought forward ' . ' He had himself tried to bring it forward , but every time he had been prevented . They did not wish to raise any question

which might seem to go against the Grand Registrar , but they thought hc had misread the law , and they appealed to Grand Lodge , whicli was thc body to decide such questions and to assist brethren in maintaining their rights . Now they were here he hoped they would not be sent away emptyhanded . It was a distinctly parallel case to the case of Quebec . It was

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