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    Article BANQUET TO BROS. BETRAM AND ROBERTS. ← Page 2 of 2
    Article BANQUET TO BROS. BETRAM AND ROBERTS. Page 2 of 2
    Article BANQUET TO BROS. BETRAM AND ROBERTS. Page 2 of 2
    Article Original Correspondence. Page 1 of 2 →
Page 4

Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.

Banquet To Bros. Betram And Roberts.

every expense ; and this I know to be only one of the many acts of beneficence which they have performed . Their liberality has not been confined to Masonry , The bounty our Bro . Bertram has bsen shown towards very many other deserving Institutions ; you , as brethren , know well by

the jewel which now adorns his breast . How nobly have our brothers exemplified the Worshipful Master ' s assertion made at their initiation , that charity was the distinguishing characteristic of a Freemason ' s heart ! Although they are about to remove from their present sphere of action , I

am sure the )* will carry with them the hearty good feelings and wishes of the brethren of the Crystal Palace Lodge —( hear , hear , )—and I trust we shall often have their aid and assistance at our lodge meetings . Brethren , 1 wish you to remember that they were both initiated in the Crystal Palace Lodge ; therefore , we claim

them as belong to us . This is their parent lodge . We shall be most happy to see them at our meetings and at our banquet table , for their presence will always be , as it always has been , a delight to us . Brethren , I ask you now to drink with me , " The Health of Bros . Bertram and Roberts . " The toast havintr been drunk most

enthusiastically , Bro . George Perren , as a constant frequenter of the Crystal Palace , who had innumerable opportunities of testing the quality of the creature

comforts which Bros . Bertram and Roberts supplied , wished to add his own testimony to the unexceptional way in which they were provided . After this he sang the charming ballad " The Thorn . "

Bro . Bertram , who was greeted with a perfect storm of applause when he rose to respond , said , when it had subsided -. Worshipful Master , Brother Past Masters , Brother Wardens , and

Berthren , I cannot attempt on behalf of myself to follow our W . M . in the speech he has made with regard to myself and my esteemed Bro . Roberts , neither can I follow him with regard to our Bro . Perren . When our W . M . and Bro . Perren

had finished their speeches , 1 felt I had something to say ; but after listening to Bro . Perren ' s song I find I have nothing to say , for when I listened to it , it carried me away and made me forget what I intended to tell you . If therefore 1 err in my language 1 trust , you will

not think 1 have erred in my feelings . For your kindness in inviting us here , this evening I can only say I sincerel y thank you . 1 have now been connected with the Crystal J'a lace for I 7 years . 1 feel that it is a long time , as I am now getting grev , for I do not use the lead comb . I was one

ol the first initiates in this lodge : I think 1 was the second initiate , as Bro . Watson will remember . I have had the pleasure , and I may say the honour of passing through every degree and every office in the Crystal Palace Lodge , until 1 became at length its W . M ., and after that , Master

ol the New Concord . With regard to the connection of my Bro . Roberts and myself with the Crystal Palace , we are , 1 may say , to a certain extent sorry to leave , on account of the refreshment contract going from us ; but still , men nf business , ¦¦ - -for it comes back to that after all—can only

remain 111 a certain place so long as it pays them . If 1 were to tell you , brethren , that Bertram and Roberts were philanthropic people , who come here lor the purpose of catering without getting anything out . of it , you would not believe it . Therefore , 1 saw so long as we could tret

anything out of the Crystal Palace we stopped—mind you , I will give you the proviso that we have satisfied the public , ( hear , hear ) , that the public have-acknowledged that satisfaction . ( i I ear , hear . ) I will go even closer than that to our own establishment , —that the Directors in the last report

which they published , said that the proprietors of the Palace and the public had every reason to be satisfied with the way in which Messrs . lie ' . train and Roberts had carried out their engagements , (( 'beers . ) I laving done that , brethren , we are very much obliged to the public . I am now going to tell you we are obliged ( o you . I

cannot express to you the feelings 1 have in my heart with regard to the manner the W . M ., Bro . Thompson , and Bro . Acton have organised this banquet , and interested so many friends in it . When I see so many kind friends around me I feel more than I can express . All I can say , brethren , is , wherever we may go , whatever the

Banquet To Bros. Betram And Roberts.

world may think , we have not made a fortune at the . Crystal Palace ; though we have paid its shareholders £ 20 , 000 a year , there is not an adequate amount left out of it for ' ourselves . The Company are getting the best of it , and still they are going to get the best of it . f wish our successors

were going to give £ 6000 less than wc have been paying ; they mig ht then retire in a few years . If you think you are going to pay our rent and make a fortune , you are mistaken . I have had 17 years' experience . I has answered our purpose , I will say , ( hear , hear ) , but it does not answer

our purpose to pay sL 6 ooo a year more for it . Therefore as men of business I say we cannot take it at that price . We say we are very much obliged to you gentlemen , but we must leave it at that price ; but I trust wherever we hoist our flag ( we are not going out of business ) you will rally round us . I am quite sure , I need not say

that for this expression of your feeling to night we are much obliged to you . If I were to attempt to speak for the next half hour , I could not say more than I say in the next few words I wish to leave something for my partner to say 1 sincerly thank you from my heart . ( Cheers ) . Bro . Roberts : I must first tell you I am in a

regular fix . If I had an order this evening to prepare for 80 , 000 persons to-morrow , I could execute it more easily than I can express to you my sincere thanks for the handsome style in which you have entertained us this evening . We have always felt great pleasure in meeting

members of the Crystal Palace Lodge . I have been here fourteen years . Bro . Acton and I were made on the same day . I have not had time to go into office , but I am very glad to-night to find 1 have passed the chair . ( Laughter . ) [ Bro . Roberts was sitting on the left of the W . M . ] I

am quite sure , brethren , Irom what I have heard you all express , you are satisfied with the way we have supplied your banquets . I know we have had many banquets down here through the recommendation of the brethren of the Crystal Palace Lodge ; and I am happy to say , that with

not one exception , the brethren who have partaken of them have expressed themselves satisfied . I hope , as Bro . Bertram says , you will rall y round us , as we are not going out of business , and that it will not be very long before you see us flourishing again . Though this is the last

time we shall have the pleasure of supplying the banquet for you , I trust we shall be for many years able to come down and enjoy your society . I thank you all , brethren , for the very kind manner in which you have entertained us this evening . ( Cheers . ) Bro . Bertram : It will not be the last time we

shall be down with you . The business of the place has often prevented us dining with you when we should have done . Now , however , if we do not dine with you it will be ' our own fault .

The W . M . then proposed " The Health of the Visitors . " Bro . Kane in reply , said , he was a shareholder in the Crystal Palace Company , and therefore had a wonderful interest in the successor of Messrs .

Bertram and Roberts who was to spend some thousands a-year more than they did . He ( Bro Kane ) had seen Messrs . Bertram and Roberts in a variety of capacities , and he esteemed them in all ; lir .-t as brother Masons ; and secondly as purveyors of a most splendid banquet , whenever

he had had the pleasure to dine with them , lie lelt that they would leave a blank not easily to be lilled up when they quitted the place . He had the fortune or mi-fortune , to be an idle man , and went to the Crystal Palace two , three , or four days a week ; and he knew he should miss them

lor however well their department might be supplied by their successor , he was quite sure it would not be the same thing . The W . M . proposed "The Masonic Charities . " Bro . F . Binckes -replied , and after apologising for the absence of Bros . Farnfield and Patten through ill-hcahh , ( who were well represented however

by Bros . Terry and Lane ) , thanked the brethren of the Crystal Palace Lodge for the support they had given to the Masonic Institutions at various times . Those Institutions were deserving of all the support which brethren might feel disposed to give , inasmuch as they respectively provided for the aged and infirm , to the number of about 232 , and boarded , clothed , and educated , between

Banquet To Bros. Betram And Roberts.

two and three hundred of the youth of both sexes . To Messrs . Bertram and Roberts the Boys' and Girls' Schools were much indebted . They had been warm cncotiragers of those Institutions ; they had provided entertainments for them free of all expense ; and he doubted not that they would still continue to remember them .

"The Worshipful Master , " "The Past Masters , " and " The Lodge Officers , " having been severall y honoured , The " Ty ler ' s Toast " brought the proceedings to a close , and the brethren separated at a late hour , and returned to town .

The evening ' s entertainment was a great success , and the company expressed themselves hi ghly delighted with the hospitality which was extended to them . The W . M . was most happy anel courteous , and -won all hearts by the warmth and frankness of his reception . The officers also

exerted themselves praiseworthilyto render everyone comfortable , and Bro . Thompson , the Secretary , with his customary geniality , afforded whatever information was required . The ease and grace with which everything was conducted convinced the visitors that the Crystal Palace

Lodge is no novice at entertaining guests . Ihe quietness and readiness observed by the attendants added greatly to the general comfort . Intermingled with the toasts were numerous songs , which were charmingl y executed by Bros . George Perren and Seymour Smith . Bro . Seymour Smith presided at the pianoforte .

Original Correspondence.

Original Correspondence .

MASONIC BALLS .

( To the Editor nf the Freemason . ) DI :. \ R SIR AXD BROTHER , — 1 am glad to offer a further reply to your correspondent , W . L . A . 30 . 1 st . I certainl y cannot affirm what may be the special view of the Prov . G . M . for Somerset , as I

have had no communication " with that distinguished and most worthy brother ; but I think it is clear , as a Masonic law , that when a P . G . M . give's his lodges permission to hold a Masonic Ball it is within his power to stipulate that it shall be carried out as a daft Ball , pure and

simple—this is a dill ' erent position to that of /> rohiFttiug the decorations of members of the high grades . 2 nd . The P . G . M . for Somerset , I rejoice to say is doubtless a member of the Supreme Grand

Council 33 ° ; but it is well-known that the present head of the high grades is our kindly-hearted and illustrious brother , C . J . Vigne ; from him any prohibitions , or other formal edicts must , naturally , emanate .

3 rd . W . L . A . 30 has slightly mistaken me here ; 1 said no permission was required for wearing the decorations of the high degrees , or of the Temple , anywhere or at any time , /' / ' //¦<¦¦/ were lint dejected la ( or to this effect ) .

They are niastmiralli / illegal in a Craft lodge , because they are o / jeeted to and forbidden by the Book of Constitutions . And I would parenthetically remark , as I have done before , that this clause of the Constitutions requires a complete interpretation ; especially after the publication of

paragraph 4 of the report of the Board 01 General Purposes , ( p . Jj . J of your last issue ) . Does it mean all Masonic Orders or Degrees not recognised as part of pure " Ancient Masonry ? " Or does it include in the prohibition all orders and decorations of a public and non-masonic description ?

4 th . Probably 1 am not able to speak of the , the views of the S . C . p , - f with the same wei ght of authority as your correspondent , but I can safel y say that I know of no statute , regulation , or order , by which the use of the decorations of the High Grades is in any way restricted . I am

sure that the S . G . C . desires to be as circumspect as possible in making additions to the roll of those grades , and very properly wishes to receive members whose discretion may be trusted ; consequently I cannot think it probahle that the Council is likely to narrow the basis upon which the constitution of these degrees was established , by enacting a prohibitory regula . ion of this de «

“The Freemason: 1872-03-16, Page 4” Masonic Periodicals Online, Library and Museum of Freemasonry, 23 Dec. 2025, django:8000/periodicals/fvl/issues/fvl_16031872/page/4/.
  • List
  • Grid
Title Category Page
TABLE OF CONTENTS. Article 1
UNITED GRAND LODGE. Article 1
BANQUET TO BROS. BETRAM AND ROBERTS. Article 3
Original Correspondence. Article 4
DIVISION OF THE PROVINCE OF WEST LANCASHIRE. Article 5
Masonic Tidings. Article 5
Untitled Article 6
Untitled Article 6
Untitled Article 6
Untitled Article 6
ROYAL MASONIC INSTITUTION FOR BOYS. Article 6
REPORTS OF MASONIC MEETINGS. Article 8
Royal Arch. Article 8
Mark Masonry. Article 9
Knights Templar. Article 9
Ancient and Accepted Rite. Article 9
Red Cross of constantine. Article 10
Scotland. Article 10
Multum in Parbo, Masonic Notes and Queries. Article 10
PRESENTATION TO BRO. W. C. OKE, P.M., 131, TRURO. Article 11
METROPOLITAN MASONIC MEETINGS. Article 11
Untitled Ad 11
Untitled Ad 12
Untitled Ad 12
Untitled Ad 12
Untitled Ad 12
Untitled Ad 12
Untitled Ad 12
Untitled Ad 12
Untitled Ad 12
Untitled Ad 12
Untitled Ad 12
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Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.

Banquet To Bros. Betram And Roberts.

every expense ; and this I know to be only one of the many acts of beneficence which they have performed . Their liberality has not been confined to Masonry , The bounty our Bro . Bertram has bsen shown towards very many other deserving Institutions ; you , as brethren , know well by

the jewel which now adorns his breast . How nobly have our brothers exemplified the Worshipful Master ' s assertion made at their initiation , that charity was the distinguishing characteristic of a Freemason ' s heart ! Although they are about to remove from their present sphere of action , I

am sure the )* will carry with them the hearty good feelings and wishes of the brethren of the Crystal Palace Lodge —( hear , hear , )—and I trust we shall often have their aid and assistance at our lodge meetings . Brethren , 1 wish you to remember that they were both initiated in the Crystal Palace Lodge ; therefore , we claim

them as belong to us . This is their parent lodge . We shall be most happy to see them at our meetings and at our banquet table , for their presence will always be , as it always has been , a delight to us . Brethren , I ask you now to drink with me , " The Health of Bros . Bertram and Roberts . " The toast havintr been drunk most

enthusiastically , Bro . George Perren , as a constant frequenter of the Crystal Palace , who had innumerable opportunities of testing the quality of the creature

comforts which Bros . Bertram and Roberts supplied , wished to add his own testimony to the unexceptional way in which they were provided . After this he sang the charming ballad " The Thorn . "

Bro . Bertram , who was greeted with a perfect storm of applause when he rose to respond , said , when it had subsided -. Worshipful Master , Brother Past Masters , Brother Wardens , and

Berthren , I cannot attempt on behalf of myself to follow our W . M . in the speech he has made with regard to myself and my esteemed Bro . Roberts , neither can I follow him with regard to our Bro . Perren . When our W . M . and Bro . Perren

had finished their speeches , 1 felt I had something to say ; but after listening to Bro . Perren ' s song I find I have nothing to say , for when I listened to it , it carried me away and made me forget what I intended to tell you . If therefore 1 err in my language 1 trust , you will

not think 1 have erred in my feelings . For your kindness in inviting us here , this evening I can only say I sincerel y thank you . 1 have now been connected with the Crystal J'a lace for I 7 years . 1 feel that it is a long time , as I am now getting grev , for I do not use the lead comb . I was one

ol the first initiates in this lodge : I think 1 was the second initiate , as Bro . Watson will remember . I have had the pleasure , and I may say the honour of passing through every degree and every office in the Crystal Palace Lodge , until 1 became at length its W . M ., and after that , Master

ol the New Concord . With regard to the connection of my Bro . Roberts and myself with the Crystal Palace , we are , 1 may say , to a certain extent sorry to leave , on account of the refreshment contract going from us ; but still , men nf business , ¦¦ - -for it comes back to that after all—can only

remain 111 a certain place so long as it pays them . If 1 were to tell you , brethren , that Bertram and Roberts were philanthropic people , who come here lor the purpose of catering without getting anything out . of it , you would not believe it . Therefore , 1 saw so long as we could tret

anything out of the Crystal Palace we stopped—mind you , I will give you the proviso that we have satisfied the public , ( hear , hear ) , that the public have-acknowledged that satisfaction . ( i I ear , hear . ) I will go even closer than that to our own establishment , —that the Directors in the last report

which they published , said that the proprietors of the Palace and the public had every reason to be satisfied with the way in which Messrs . lie ' . train and Roberts had carried out their engagements , (( 'beers . ) I laving done that , brethren , we are very much obliged to the public . I am now going to tell you we are obliged ( o you . I

cannot express to you the feelings 1 have in my heart with regard to the manner the W . M ., Bro . Thompson , and Bro . Acton have organised this banquet , and interested so many friends in it . When I see so many kind friends around me I feel more than I can express . All I can say , brethren , is , wherever we may go , whatever the

Banquet To Bros. Betram And Roberts.

world may think , we have not made a fortune at the . Crystal Palace ; though we have paid its shareholders £ 20 , 000 a year , there is not an adequate amount left out of it for ' ourselves . The Company are getting the best of it , and still they are going to get the best of it . f wish our successors

were going to give £ 6000 less than wc have been paying ; they mig ht then retire in a few years . If you think you are going to pay our rent and make a fortune , you are mistaken . I have had 17 years' experience . I has answered our purpose , I will say , ( hear , hear ) , but it does not answer

our purpose to pay sL 6 ooo a year more for it . Therefore as men of business I say we cannot take it at that price . We say we are very much obliged to you gentlemen , but we must leave it at that price ; but I trust wherever we hoist our flag ( we are not going out of business ) you will rally round us . I am quite sure , I need not say

that for this expression of your feeling to night we are much obliged to you . If I were to attempt to speak for the next half hour , I could not say more than I say in the next few words I wish to leave something for my partner to say 1 sincerly thank you from my heart . ( Cheers ) . Bro . Roberts : I must first tell you I am in a

regular fix . If I had an order this evening to prepare for 80 , 000 persons to-morrow , I could execute it more easily than I can express to you my sincere thanks for the handsome style in which you have entertained us this evening . We have always felt great pleasure in meeting

members of the Crystal Palace Lodge . I have been here fourteen years . Bro . Acton and I were made on the same day . I have not had time to go into office , but I am very glad to-night to find 1 have passed the chair . ( Laughter . ) [ Bro . Roberts was sitting on the left of the W . M . ] I

am quite sure , brethren , Irom what I have heard you all express , you are satisfied with the way we have supplied your banquets . I know we have had many banquets down here through the recommendation of the brethren of the Crystal Palace Lodge ; and I am happy to say , that with

not one exception , the brethren who have partaken of them have expressed themselves satisfied . I hope , as Bro . Bertram says , you will rall y round us , as we are not going out of business , and that it will not be very long before you see us flourishing again . Though this is the last

time we shall have the pleasure of supplying the banquet for you , I trust we shall be for many years able to come down and enjoy your society . I thank you all , brethren , for the very kind manner in which you have entertained us this evening . ( Cheers . ) Bro . Bertram : It will not be the last time we

shall be down with you . The business of the place has often prevented us dining with you when we should have done . Now , however , if we do not dine with you it will be ' our own fault .

The W . M . then proposed " The Health of the Visitors . " Bro . Kane in reply , said , he was a shareholder in the Crystal Palace Company , and therefore had a wonderful interest in the successor of Messrs .

Bertram and Roberts who was to spend some thousands a-year more than they did . He ( Bro Kane ) had seen Messrs . Bertram and Roberts in a variety of capacities , and he esteemed them in all ; lir .-t as brother Masons ; and secondly as purveyors of a most splendid banquet , whenever

he had had the pleasure to dine with them , lie lelt that they would leave a blank not easily to be lilled up when they quitted the place . He had the fortune or mi-fortune , to be an idle man , and went to the Crystal Palace two , three , or four days a week ; and he knew he should miss them

lor however well their department might be supplied by their successor , he was quite sure it would not be the same thing . The W . M . proposed "The Masonic Charities . " Bro . F . Binckes -replied , and after apologising for the absence of Bros . Farnfield and Patten through ill-hcahh , ( who were well represented however

by Bros . Terry and Lane ) , thanked the brethren of the Crystal Palace Lodge for the support they had given to the Masonic Institutions at various times . Those Institutions were deserving of all the support which brethren might feel disposed to give , inasmuch as they respectively provided for the aged and infirm , to the number of about 232 , and boarded , clothed , and educated , between

Banquet To Bros. Betram And Roberts.

two and three hundred of the youth of both sexes . To Messrs . Bertram and Roberts the Boys' and Girls' Schools were much indebted . They had been warm cncotiragers of those Institutions ; they had provided entertainments for them free of all expense ; and he doubted not that they would still continue to remember them .

"The Worshipful Master , " "The Past Masters , " and " The Lodge Officers , " having been severall y honoured , The " Ty ler ' s Toast " brought the proceedings to a close , and the brethren separated at a late hour , and returned to town .

The evening ' s entertainment was a great success , and the company expressed themselves hi ghly delighted with the hospitality which was extended to them . The W . M . was most happy anel courteous , and -won all hearts by the warmth and frankness of his reception . The officers also

exerted themselves praiseworthilyto render everyone comfortable , and Bro . Thompson , the Secretary , with his customary geniality , afforded whatever information was required . The ease and grace with which everything was conducted convinced the visitors that the Crystal Palace

Lodge is no novice at entertaining guests . Ihe quietness and readiness observed by the attendants added greatly to the general comfort . Intermingled with the toasts were numerous songs , which were charmingl y executed by Bros . George Perren and Seymour Smith . Bro . Seymour Smith presided at the pianoforte .

Original Correspondence.

Original Correspondence .

MASONIC BALLS .

( To the Editor nf the Freemason . ) DI :. \ R SIR AXD BROTHER , — 1 am glad to offer a further reply to your correspondent , W . L . A . 30 . 1 st . I certainl y cannot affirm what may be the special view of the Prov . G . M . for Somerset , as I

have had no communication " with that distinguished and most worthy brother ; but I think it is clear , as a Masonic law , that when a P . G . M . give's his lodges permission to hold a Masonic Ball it is within his power to stipulate that it shall be carried out as a daft Ball , pure and

simple—this is a dill ' erent position to that of /> rohiFttiug the decorations of members of the high grades . 2 nd . The P . G . M . for Somerset , I rejoice to say is doubtless a member of the Supreme Grand

Council 33 ° ; but it is well-known that the present head of the high grades is our kindly-hearted and illustrious brother , C . J . Vigne ; from him any prohibitions , or other formal edicts must , naturally , emanate .

3 rd . W . L . A . 30 has slightly mistaken me here ; 1 said no permission was required for wearing the decorations of the high degrees , or of the Temple , anywhere or at any time , /' / ' //¦<¦¦/ were lint dejected la ( or to this effect ) .

They are niastmiralli / illegal in a Craft lodge , because they are o / jeeted to and forbidden by the Book of Constitutions . And I would parenthetically remark , as I have done before , that this clause of the Constitutions requires a complete interpretation ; especially after the publication of

paragraph 4 of the report of the Board 01 General Purposes , ( p . Jj . J of your last issue ) . Does it mean all Masonic Orders or Degrees not recognised as part of pure " Ancient Masonry ? " Or does it include in the prohibition all orders and decorations of a public and non-masonic description ?

4 th . Probably 1 am not able to speak of the , the views of the S . C . p , - f with the same wei ght of authority as your correspondent , but I can safel y say that I know of no statute , regulation , or order , by which the use of the decorations of the High Grades is in any way restricted . I am

sure that the S . G . C . desires to be as circumspect as possible in making additions to the roll of those grades , and very properly wishes to receive members whose discretion may be trusted ; consequently I cannot think it probahle that the Council is likely to narrow the basis upon which the constitution of these degrees was established , by enacting a prohibitory regula . ion of this de «

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