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  • April 1, 1857
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The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine, April 1, 1857: Page 26

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fact , and I will mow read the letter which I received from him upon that subject . " ( Hear , hear ; and cries of "No , no ! " ) [ The letter was dated December 13 , and his lordship after an apology

for not having sooner answered his letter , said that he was startled and annoyed very much at his name having been proposed without his haying first been consulted ; and that he knew nothing of the matter till the writer had informed him . Lord Southampton concluded by begging that a notification to this effect might be made to the Grand Secretary . ] Bro . Warren said : " Most worshipful Grand Master ,- —I feel that I have some

reason to complain of the way in which I have been treated on this subject . I am present to withdraw my nomination of Lord Southampton . ( Hear , hear , and ironical cheerings . ) I , too , have had a letter from Lord Southampton , couched in somewhat different terms , and written in a very different tone from that which has just been read to Grand Lodge . ( Hear , hear ! cheers , and cries of ' Head , read . ' ) I will read the letter . It is as follows : —

' Whittlebury , Towcester , Dec . 15 th , 1856 . ' Sir , — -I beg to apologize for not having sooner answered your letter of the 4 th December ; I sincerely regret to find that I have been put in nomination as a candidate for the office of Grand Master , without my sanction having been first obtained , more especially under existing circumstances . I feel much flattered by the very kind expressions which you make use of towards me , and by the very high compliment which you propose to pay me , but I must beg you , for the present , not to take any further steps in the matter . I am , Sir and Brother , faithfully yours , : ¦ , ' Southampton . '

"'On the receipt of that letter , of course I took no further steps in the matter . ( Hear , hear . ) Nor did I ever intend to go beyond simply withdrawing the name , if it was at all objected to ; and I may repeat now what I said when making the proposition , that it was out of no disrespect towards yourself . ( Oh , oh ; hear , hear and cheers . ) I say , it was out of no want of respect towards your lordship , but simply as a protest against the continual re-election of the same Brother as Grand Master ( hear ); because I am strongly convinced that an infusion of new blood , occasionally , is very desirable . ( Applause , and cries of

' Question , question . ' ) This is the question . " Bro . Dobie begged Grand Lodge not to allow this debate to go on , and expressed a hope that not a word of it would be recorded upon the minutes . He considered that it was a great insult to the respected nobleman whose name had been mentioned , that it should have been brought forward in the Grand Lodge of England in the way that it had been , He knew him too well to suppose for

one moment that he would give his consent to such proceedings . ( Ones of " Order , order , " and confusion . ) A Brother : " Most worshipful Sir , —I rise to order . A Brother was on his legs , apologizing . ( Oh , oh , and No , no . ) Well , at any rate , if he was not apologizing , he was withdrawing the name he had proposed , and what right has the Grand Begistrar to interrupt him in the way he has done ?'' ( Hear , hear , and cheers . )

Bro . Warren : " Had I been allowed to proceed I should have concluded long before this . What I wanted to say was , that it would add honour to the dais , and materially contribute to the usefulness of the Grand Officers , if they had the advantage of Fast Grand Masters to whom reference could be made in cases of difficulty . " ( Hear , hear , laughter , and cheers . ) Lord Panmure : " On these occasions , instead of smiling at what occurs , we

should consider whether we are not bringing Grand Lodge into discredit . ( Hear , hear . ) I am not one of those who would destroy the right of any Brother to name a fresh Grand Master , and to infuse , if it was thought right , fresh blood into Grand Lodge every year . The Grand Lodge of England differs from the Grand Lodge of Scotland in this essential particular . You have the power annually of re-electing a new Grand Master , if necessary ; whereas we , in Scotland , look upon our Grand Master as a kind of fixUxre . ( Hear , hear , and laughter . ) I do

“The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine: 1857-04-01, Page 26” Masonic Periodicals Online, Library and Museum of Freemasonry, 2 June 2025, django:8000/periodicals/mmr/issues/frm_01041857/page/26/.
  • List
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Title Category Page
ELECTION OF GRAND MASTER. Article 1
THE CANADAS. Article 2
THE EIGHT OF REPORTING IN GRAND LODGE. Article 3
NOTICE OF GRAND LODGE BUISNESS. Article 5
THE CANADIAN MOVEMENT. Article 5
THE QUARRYMAN OF ST. POINT. Article 15
REVIEWS OF NEW BOOKS. Article 16
CORRESPONDENCE. Article 18
THE MASONIC MIRROR. Article 23
METROPOLITAN. Article 40
PROVINCIAL. Article 51
ROYAL ARCH. Article 59
KNIGHTS TEMPLAR. Article 63
THE HIGH GRADES. Article 68
MARK MASONRY. Article 68
SCOTLAND. Article 69
COLONIAL Article 75
INDIA Article 79
MASONIC FESTIVITIES Article 80
SUMMARY OF NEWS FOR MARCH Article 83
MASONIC ARCHITECTURE. Article 89
Obituary. Article 90
NOTICE. Article 91
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Page 26

Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.

™

fact , and I will mow read the letter which I received from him upon that subject . " ( Hear , hear ; and cries of "No , no ! " ) [ The letter was dated December 13 , and his lordship after an apology

for not having sooner answered his letter , said that he was startled and annoyed very much at his name having been proposed without his haying first been consulted ; and that he knew nothing of the matter till the writer had informed him . Lord Southampton concluded by begging that a notification to this effect might be made to the Grand Secretary . ] Bro . Warren said : " Most worshipful Grand Master ,- —I feel that I have some

reason to complain of the way in which I have been treated on this subject . I am present to withdraw my nomination of Lord Southampton . ( Hear , hear , and ironical cheerings . ) I , too , have had a letter from Lord Southampton , couched in somewhat different terms , and written in a very different tone from that which has just been read to Grand Lodge . ( Hear , hear ! cheers , and cries of ' Head , read . ' ) I will read the letter . It is as follows : —

' Whittlebury , Towcester , Dec . 15 th , 1856 . ' Sir , — -I beg to apologize for not having sooner answered your letter of the 4 th December ; I sincerely regret to find that I have been put in nomination as a candidate for the office of Grand Master , without my sanction having been first obtained , more especially under existing circumstances . I feel much flattered by the very kind expressions which you make use of towards me , and by the very high compliment which you propose to pay me , but I must beg you , for the present , not to take any further steps in the matter . I am , Sir and Brother , faithfully yours , : ¦ , ' Southampton . '

"'On the receipt of that letter , of course I took no further steps in the matter . ( Hear , hear . ) Nor did I ever intend to go beyond simply withdrawing the name , if it was at all objected to ; and I may repeat now what I said when making the proposition , that it was out of no disrespect towards yourself . ( Oh , oh ; hear , hear and cheers . ) I say , it was out of no want of respect towards your lordship , but simply as a protest against the continual re-election of the same Brother as Grand Master ( hear ); because I am strongly convinced that an infusion of new blood , occasionally , is very desirable . ( Applause , and cries of

' Question , question . ' ) This is the question . " Bro . Dobie begged Grand Lodge not to allow this debate to go on , and expressed a hope that not a word of it would be recorded upon the minutes . He considered that it was a great insult to the respected nobleman whose name had been mentioned , that it should have been brought forward in the Grand Lodge of England in the way that it had been , He knew him too well to suppose for

one moment that he would give his consent to such proceedings . ( Ones of " Order , order , " and confusion . ) A Brother : " Most worshipful Sir , —I rise to order . A Brother was on his legs , apologizing . ( Oh , oh , and No , no . ) Well , at any rate , if he was not apologizing , he was withdrawing the name he had proposed , and what right has the Grand Begistrar to interrupt him in the way he has done ?'' ( Hear , hear , and cheers . )

Bro . Warren : " Had I been allowed to proceed I should have concluded long before this . What I wanted to say was , that it would add honour to the dais , and materially contribute to the usefulness of the Grand Officers , if they had the advantage of Fast Grand Masters to whom reference could be made in cases of difficulty . " ( Hear , hear , laughter , and cheers . ) Lord Panmure : " On these occasions , instead of smiling at what occurs , we

should consider whether we are not bringing Grand Lodge into discredit . ( Hear , hear . ) I am not one of those who would destroy the right of any Brother to name a fresh Grand Master , and to infuse , if it was thought right , fresh blood into Grand Lodge every year . The Grand Lodge of England differs from the Grand Lodge of Scotland in this essential particular . You have the power annually of re-electing a new Grand Master , if necessary ; whereas we , in Scotland , look upon our Grand Master as a kind of fixUxre . ( Hear , hear , and laughter . ) I do

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