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  • The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine
  • May 4, 1867
  • Page 10
  • MASONIC NOTES AND QUERIES
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The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine, May 4, 1867: Page 10

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Masonic Notes And Queries

modern English Preemasonry ) were accustomed to meet . —C . P . COOPER . POSITIVE RELIGIONS AND OUR EREEMASONET . In answer to the remark of " Critieus , " I say that in those positive religions whose followers are receivable into our Preemasonry , the great and essential

elements of natural religion are embodied and preserved . Whatever the various new and particular doctrines superinduced may be , there is always a recognition of the Supreme Being , Architect of the Universe , and separate from it . There is always a belief in the soul ' s immortality . There is always the moral law . C . P . COOPER .

TOLERATION IX TRUE PREEMASONRY . In auswer to a correspondent ' s inquiry on this subject , I say that , on the one hand , the Preemasonry which tolerates Atheism or Pantheism of any kind is not true , and that , on the other hand , the Preemasonry which does not tolerate the Theism of natural religion is not true . —C . P . COOPER .

ELEUSINIAN MYSTERIES . The work to wdiieh I referred is Anthony Van Dale , of Haarlem , "De Oraculis Veterum . Ethnicorum Dissortationes Dux . " The edition which I have is the second and enlarged edition , published at Amsterdam , 1700 , with copper plates , aud containing essays on Simon Maguson the Acts of Pilateaud on

Conse-, , cration . The dedication is dated the kalende of September , 1 G 99 . The book is devoted chiefly to oracles and that of Delphi , but it explains many of these mysteries , which have a resemblance to Masonry , and -chiefly the Cave of Trophonius , in chapter vi ' ii ., to which there is a late ( Plate 6 ) which will impress

p , those . who have seen Prench dramatic performances , or are acquainted with the old rites . These are matters which cannot be illustrated in these pages . There is nothing direct in the Eleusinian mysteries heyond these illustrations . —HYDE CLARKE .

JAMES WATT . About 1760 James Watt built an organ for a Preemasons' lodge at Glasgow . —C . H . BRO . STONE . Was Bro . Stone , the first Senior Grand Warden , a member of the Masons' Company of London ? The

solution of this question is of considerable interest in relation to lodge constitutions and administrations . —C . H . DISPENSATIONS POR A & E . In July , 1704 , Bro . James Heseltiue afterwards SS . G . W . aud Grand Treasurerwas admitted by dis

, - pensation at the age of nineteen . —C . H . LECTURES . GRAND STEWARDS' LODGE . It appears that , in 1763 , Bro . Thomas Edwards , -Grand Warden , delivered an address at the Stewards ' Lodge at the Horns Tavern , which appears to have been in Eleetstreet

- . Was this in the nature of the instruction of late given by the Grand Stewards ' Lodge ? There was at that time a Horn Tavern at Westminster . —C . H . MASONIC SONG . ^ In 1793 , Bro . J . Bissett , Steward of the St . Alban ' s 2 / odge , of Birmingham , and Prov . G . Sec . of War-

Masonic Notes And Queries

wickshire , wrote a Masonic song ; "A Mason's life is the life for me . "—C . H . TDZE ORATOR . The institution of the Orator is very old in Prance . The office of Mother Orator existed as far back as 173 S . Did this officer possess the same constitutional

functions then as now , or what were his- duties ? —C . H . MUSSULMAN MASONS . Which is the first record of a Mussulman Mason ? I find that the Princes Omdit ul Omrah and Oraur ul Omrah , sons of the Nabob of Surat , were admitted Masons iu 17 S 0 . —C . H .

Correspondence.

CORRESPONDENCE .

The " Editor is not responsible for the opinions expressed by Correspondents ,, THE PRIVILEGES OP PAST MASTERS .

TO THE EDITOH OF THE rREEiTASOyS' MAGAZINE AJfD MASONIC 3 IIBEOB . DEAR SIR AND BROTHER , —My thanks are due to Bro . Stonier Leigh for his attempt to throw light on the question I lately raised in reference to the exclusion of visitors from meetings of a lodge . In the main , he appears to agree with me that visitors cannot legally be shut out at allespeciallduring

, y the reading of the minutes , though he considers that , as they contain the records of previous discussions , if the right to require the withdrawal of strangers during such discussions be conceded , it is but logical to insist on the same course when the minutes are read for confirmation at the next meeting . Though ,

at a first glauce , I may seem to be inconsistent , I confess that I do not quite see the force of this . As far a 3 my experience goes , three cases occur to me when it may be desirable to have only the members of a lodge present , aud when visitors should at once see the propriety of retiring on being requested to

do so , namely , when the conduct of a subscribing brother is impugned , when the discussion is of a nature to call forth the expression of strong personal feeling , and when the finances of the lodge are under

consideration , which can concern none but its members . Even then the consent to withdraw should be considered as a favour . What I complained of was exclusion of myself aud others during the reading of the minutes , not during the discussion of which they contained the result . The " Book of Constitutions " ( p . 75 article IV . aud p . 86 articles I . and

, , , II . ) , recognises the admission of visitors , in the former case recommending it . The general practice of lodges is to give a cordial welcome to brethren from other lodges . So far as I am aware , there is no provision for the exercise of a discretionary power on the subject ; and it appears to me that such visits

are a great safeguard against illegal or irregular proceedings , also tend to produce uniformity in working , and to encourage kindly Masonic feelings . It may further be remarked that the minutes record only the results of discussions , not the details . The former mayI thinkbe considered the common property of

, , the Craft ; the latter , it may in some cases be desirable to keep private . Bro . Hughan ' s publication in your columns of the proceedings of the lodge at Palmouth , as gleaned from the past records of many years , is a case in point . Bro . Leigh diners from me

“The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine: 1867-05-04, Page 10” Masonic Periodicals Online, Library and Museum of Freemasonry, 21 June 2025, django:8000/periodicals/mmr/issues/mmr_04051867/page/10/.
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Title Category Page
THE LATE BRO. DR. OLIVER, D.D. Article 1
NEW GRAND OFFICERS. Article 5
HISTORY OF FREEMASONRY IN CORNWALL. Article 5
THE NEMESIS: A TALE OF THE DAYS OF TRAJAN. Article 7
MASONIC NOTES AND QUERIES Article 9
CORRESPONDENCE. Article 10
THE RED CROSS OF CONSTANTINE. Article 11
MASONIC MEMS. Article 12
METROPOLITAN. Article 12
PROVINCIAL. Article 15
ROYAL ARCH. Article 16
MARK MASONRY. Article 17
FUNERAL LODGES IN HONOUR OF THE LATE BRO. JOHN STEWART, ESQ., OF NATEBY HALL, LANCASTER. Article 17
NOTES ON LITERATURE, SCIENCE, MUSIC, DRAMA, AND THE FINE ARTS. Article 18
Poetry. Article 18
THE WEEK. Article 19
TO CORRESPONDENTS . Article 20
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Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.

Masonic Notes And Queries

modern English Preemasonry ) were accustomed to meet . —C . P . COOPER . POSITIVE RELIGIONS AND OUR EREEMASONET . In answer to the remark of " Critieus , " I say that in those positive religions whose followers are receivable into our Preemasonry , the great and essential

elements of natural religion are embodied and preserved . Whatever the various new and particular doctrines superinduced may be , there is always a recognition of the Supreme Being , Architect of the Universe , and separate from it . There is always a belief in the soul ' s immortality . There is always the moral law . C . P . COOPER .

TOLERATION IX TRUE PREEMASONRY . In auswer to a correspondent ' s inquiry on this subject , I say that , on the one hand , the Preemasonry which tolerates Atheism or Pantheism of any kind is not true , and that , on the other hand , the Preemasonry which does not tolerate the Theism of natural religion is not true . —C . P . COOPER .

ELEUSINIAN MYSTERIES . The work to wdiieh I referred is Anthony Van Dale , of Haarlem , "De Oraculis Veterum . Ethnicorum Dissortationes Dux . " The edition which I have is the second and enlarged edition , published at Amsterdam , 1700 , with copper plates , aud containing essays on Simon Maguson the Acts of Pilateaud on

Conse-, , cration . The dedication is dated the kalende of September , 1 G 99 . The book is devoted chiefly to oracles and that of Delphi , but it explains many of these mysteries , which have a resemblance to Masonry , and -chiefly the Cave of Trophonius , in chapter vi ' ii ., to which there is a late ( Plate 6 ) which will impress

p , those . who have seen Prench dramatic performances , or are acquainted with the old rites . These are matters which cannot be illustrated in these pages . There is nothing direct in the Eleusinian mysteries heyond these illustrations . —HYDE CLARKE .

JAMES WATT . About 1760 James Watt built an organ for a Preemasons' lodge at Glasgow . —C . H . BRO . STONE . Was Bro . Stone , the first Senior Grand Warden , a member of the Masons' Company of London ? The

solution of this question is of considerable interest in relation to lodge constitutions and administrations . —C . H . DISPENSATIONS POR A & E . In July , 1704 , Bro . James Heseltiue afterwards SS . G . W . aud Grand Treasurerwas admitted by dis

, - pensation at the age of nineteen . —C . H . LECTURES . GRAND STEWARDS' LODGE . It appears that , in 1763 , Bro . Thomas Edwards , -Grand Warden , delivered an address at the Stewards ' Lodge at the Horns Tavern , which appears to have been in Eleetstreet

- . Was this in the nature of the instruction of late given by the Grand Stewards ' Lodge ? There was at that time a Horn Tavern at Westminster . —C . H . MASONIC SONG . ^ In 1793 , Bro . J . Bissett , Steward of the St . Alban ' s 2 / odge , of Birmingham , and Prov . G . Sec . of War-

Masonic Notes And Queries

wickshire , wrote a Masonic song ; "A Mason's life is the life for me . "—C . H . TDZE ORATOR . The institution of the Orator is very old in Prance . The office of Mother Orator existed as far back as 173 S . Did this officer possess the same constitutional

functions then as now , or what were his- duties ? —C . H . MUSSULMAN MASONS . Which is the first record of a Mussulman Mason ? I find that the Princes Omdit ul Omrah and Oraur ul Omrah , sons of the Nabob of Surat , were admitted Masons iu 17 S 0 . —C . H .

Correspondence.

CORRESPONDENCE .

The " Editor is not responsible for the opinions expressed by Correspondents ,, THE PRIVILEGES OP PAST MASTERS .

TO THE EDITOH OF THE rREEiTASOyS' MAGAZINE AJfD MASONIC 3 IIBEOB . DEAR SIR AND BROTHER , —My thanks are due to Bro . Stonier Leigh for his attempt to throw light on the question I lately raised in reference to the exclusion of visitors from meetings of a lodge . In the main , he appears to agree with me that visitors cannot legally be shut out at allespeciallduring

, y the reading of the minutes , though he considers that , as they contain the records of previous discussions , if the right to require the withdrawal of strangers during such discussions be conceded , it is but logical to insist on the same course when the minutes are read for confirmation at the next meeting . Though ,

at a first glauce , I may seem to be inconsistent , I confess that I do not quite see the force of this . As far a 3 my experience goes , three cases occur to me when it may be desirable to have only the members of a lodge present , aud when visitors should at once see the propriety of retiring on being requested to

do so , namely , when the conduct of a subscribing brother is impugned , when the discussion is of a nature to call forth the expression of strong personal feeling , and when the finances of the lodge are under

consideration , which can concern none but its members . Even then the consent to withdraw should be considered as a favour . What I complained of was exclusion of myself aud others during the reading of the minutes , not during the discussion of which they contained the result . The " Book of Constitutions " ( p . 75 article IV . aud p . 86 articles I . and

, , , II . ) , recognises the admission of visitors , in the former case recommending it . The general practice of lodges is to give a cordial welcome to brethren from other lodges . So far as I am aware , there is no provision for the exercise of a discretionary power on the subject ; and it appears to me that such visits

are a great safeguard against illegal or irregular proceedings , also tend to produce uniformity in working , and to encourage kindly Masonic feelings . It may further be remarked that the minutes record only the results of discussions , not the details . The former mayI thinkbe considered the common property of

, , the Craft ; the latter , it may in some cases be desirable to keep private . Bro . Hughan ' s publication in your columns of the proceedings of the lodge at Palmouth , as gleaned from the past records of many years , is a case in point . Bro . Leigh diners from me

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