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  • Sept. 4, 1869
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The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine, Sept. 4, 1869: Page 9

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    Article MASONIC NOTES AND QUERIES. ← Page 2 of 3 →
Page 9

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Masonic Notes And Queries.

REFORMATION THEORY 01 ? THE ORIGIN OF FREEMASONRY . I have not had the time to digest this point , but I have considered that the Reformation , with its principles and spirit , by clearing away obstructions that might otherwise have impeded its progressenabled

, the pliilosopho-liumano idea of the universal brotherhood of man to take deeper root and spring up into a more really active and living institution . — "W . P . BUCHAN .

BRO . DE SAULCY . H . C . is quite right about Bro . De Sauley , for I find this brother described in the Calendrier of the Grand Orient of France as one of the two Grand Dignitaries ranking next to the Deputy G . M . "De Sauley , Commander of the Legion of Honour , Senator of the Empiremember of the Imperial

, Institute of France , & c , S . G . S . C . 33 ° , member of the Grand College of Rites . " In the Grand College of Rites , representing the Supreme Council , 111 . Bro . De Sauley appears as the third Grand Officer . —N .

MASONIC PROBLEM . Did , or did not , any essential difference exist between the Masons' and other trades' societies previous to * the 18 th century ? I have taken up the negative , asserting that when a gentleman became a fellow of the Masons' society it was similar to another being admitted a fellow of the tailors' or other such society . In one case he became a free-mason in the other a free-tailor , there being about as much ceremony in the one case as in the other . — "W . P . B .

THE CONFLICT OE JURISDICTION . Why does our worthy Bro . " J . A . H ., " at p . 162 , say , — " 1 st . The Grand Chapter and Grand Lodge , " thereby giving preference to Grand Chapter ? I would be inclined to say , — " 1 st . The Grand Lodge and Grand Chapter . " Then , when alluding to Scotlandhe puts the Royal Order into the first

posi-, tion , and " 4 th . The Grand Chapter and Grand Lodge . " I think this is wrong , for in Scotland the Grand Lodge is the head of all Scottish Masonry , and has nothing whatever to do with any " Grand Chapter , " which latter is a separate and distinct body ; furtherthere are Scottish "lod " who look

, ges upon " chapters " and other pretended royal and knightlyorders and degrees with small favour . Then , as to the " Mark Degree , " the Grand Lodge of Scotland authorises all its daughter lodges to practice it , and the chair is sometimes given in lodges as well as in chapters in Scotland .

The legendary connexion of knightly orders or degrees with Freemasonry before last century is all imaginary . Such popular Masonic ideas are simply nonsense ; they are the " rubbish " alias the stock-intrade , as expressed at page 167 , out of which so many mysterious foundationless " Masonic Arabian Ni ghts ' tales " have been manufactured . —PICTUS .

QUALIFICATIONS . If it is improper to impose restrictions on candidates , is it not desirable the whole system of Masonry should be altered or reformed ? Eestrictions are placed on atheists , idolaters , rogues , cheats , swindlers , persons of notoriousl y bad character , people who cannot read and write , & c . Surely a man who is willing to pay up ought not to be excluded because

he is an atheist and because our system is contrary to his , or because he is deaf and cannot hear us , or because he is maimed and cannot help us . Why ara not women , boys , and girls admitted , if they like ?— - PLUMB .

FREEMASONRY ABOUT 152 YEARS OLD ( p . 173 ) . I have read Bro . Sanderson ' s remarks , but I can see no proof that speculative Freemasonry was practiced by the lodge he alludes to at page 109 . It seems to me that said lodge was merely an operative Mason ' s lodge or friendly society into which

operatives were admitted upon easier terms than gentlemen , which was one distinction ; however , I shall have more to say shortly , and I hope to the point , should fortune favour . If I could get a look at these old records for a fewdays—if the lodge would trust me with them—I should he happy to read them carefully and give every consideration to their contents . — "W . P . BUCHAN .

MASONIC BIBLIOGRAPHY . I extract from a catalogue of a bookseller titles and prices of two books : —¦ " 145 FEEEMASONET . —Inwood ( J . ) Sermons in which are Explained the Eeligious , Moral , and Political Virtues of Freemasonry , Svo , boards , uncut , 4 s . Deptford 1799 ,

, " 146 FEEEMASONET . —Eobison ( J . ) Proofs of a Conspiracy against all the Eeligions and Governments of Europe carried on by Freemasons , Illuminati , & c , Svo , calf neat , 4 s . 1797 . " —A .

MASONIC CEREMONIES . Crux has not understood even yet the bearing of my remarks as to the three officers . I called his attention to the system on which the ceremonies and lectures are composed , which is not the system of the present day , but one which was

handed down during the middle ages and preserved far down in the last century . It is this system which has given us threes , fives , sevens , as it did to many branches of learning . I stated , as to the case in point , first that the answer is ancientandso far as I know , it is the

, , oldest to be found in ceremonies or revelation books here or on the continent . Second , I said that it was correct , according to the system , in making another term of 3 , by excluding the O . G-.

This he cannot admit , because he says there are 4 and not 3 . I still say that his realistic view is not a true interpretation of our ceremonies , the history and tenor of which he has disregarded , * and I say further I like what he considers the errors of the ancient system to corrections such as his , which are innovationsancl which file away the ancient evidences . In

, preserving testimonies as to the mental characteristics of the ceremonies , we may be able to ascertain the true history . The ceremonies show us that to whatever extent Masonry was reconstructed in 1717 , and to whatever extent invention was resorted to , the basis of the

ceremonies is some craft ritual of remote antiquity . In its present state—mutilated and cockneyfied as it is—the E . A . ceremony or ceremonies of the various Grand Lodges and countries contains a great portion of ancient ceremony .

“The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine: 1869-09-04, Page 9” Masonic Periodicals Online, Library and Museum of Freemasonry, 22 June 2025, django:8000/periodicals/mmr/issues/mmr_04091869/page/9/.
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Title Category Page
Untitled Article 1
TOLERATION IN MASONIC ADMINISTRATION. Article 1
"LE MONDE MACONIQUE" AND THE " FREEMASONS' MAGAZINE." Article 2
MASONIC DISCIPLINE. Article 3
CHIPS OF FOREIGN ASHLAR. Article 4
ADDRESS, Article 6
MASONIC NOTES AND QUERIES. Article 8
INELIGIBILITY OF CANDIDATES FOR FREEMASONRY. Article 11
Untitled Article 13
MASONIC MEMS Article 13
GRAND LODGE. Article 13
METROPOLITAN. Article 14
PROVINCIAL. Article 14
IRELAND. Article 15
CANADA. Article 15
MALTA. Article 15
INDIA. Article 16
ROYAL ARCH. Article 17
HIGH KNIGHTS TEMPLAR. Article 17
LITERATURE, SCIENCE, MUSIC, DRAMA, AND THE FINE ARTS. Article 17
THE WALLACE. MONUMENT. Article 18
Poetry. Article 19
LIST OF LODGE, &c., MEETINGS FOR WEEK ENDING 11TH SEPTEMBER, 1869. Article 20
TO CORRESPONDENTS. Article 20
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Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.

Masonic Notes And Queries.

REFORMATION THEORY 01 ? THE ORIGIN OF FREEMASONRY . I have not had the time to digest this point , but I have considered that the Reformation , with its principles and spirit , by clearing away obstructions that might otherwise have impeded its progressenabled

, the pliilosopho-liumano idea of the universal brotherhood of man to take deeper root and spring up into a more really active and living institution . — "W . P . BUCHAN .

BRO . DE SAULCY . H . C . is quite right about Bro . De Sauley , for I find this brother described in the Calendrier of the Grand Orient of France as one of the two Grand Dignitaries ranking next to the Deputy G . M . "De Sauley , Commander of the Legion of Honour , Senator of the Empiremember of the Imperial

, Institute of France , & c , S . G . S . C . 33 ° , member of the Grand College of Rites . " In the Grand College of Rites , representing the Supreme Council , 111 . Bro . De Sauley appears as the third Grand Officer . —N .

MASONIC PROBLEM . Did , or did not , any essential difference exist between the Masons' and other trades' societies previous to * the 18 th century ? I have taken up the negative , asserting that when a gentleman became a fellow of the Masons' society it was similar to another being admitted a fellow of the tailors' or other such society . In one case he became a free-mason in the other a free-tailor , there being about as much ceremony in the one case as in the other . — "W . P . B .

THE CONFLICT OE JURISDICTION . Why does our worthy Bro . " J . A . H ., " at p . 162 , say , — " 1 st . The Grand Chapter and Grand Lodge , " thereby giving preference to Grand Chapter ? I would be inclined to say , — " 1 st . The Grand Lodge and Grand Chapter . " Then , when alluding to Scotlandhe puts the Royal Order into the first

posi-, tion , and " 4 th . The Grand Chapter and Grand Lodge . " I think this is wrong , for in Scotland the Grand Lodge is the head of all Scottish Masonry , and has nothing whatever to do with any " Grand Chapter , " which latter is a separate and distinct body ; furtherthere are Scottish "lod " who look

, ges upon " chapters " and other pretended royal and knightlyorders and degrees with small favour . Then , as to the " Mark Degree , " the Grand Lodge of Scotland authorises all its daughter lodges to practice it , and the chair is sometimes given in lodges as well as in chapters in Scotland .

The legendary connexion of knightly orders or degrees with Freemasonry before last century is all imaginary . Such popular Masonic ideas are simply nonsense ; they are the " rubbish " alias the stock-intrade , as expressed at page 167 , out of which so many mysterious foundationless " Masonic Arabian Ni ghts ' tales " have been manufactured . —PICTUS .

QUALIFICATIONS . If it is improper to impose restrictions on candidates , is it not desirable the whole system of Masonry should be altered or reformed ? Eestrictions are placed on atheists , idolaters , rogues , cheats , swindlers , persons of notoriousl y bad character , people who cannot read and write , & c . Surely a man who is willing to pay up ought not to be excluded because

he is an atheist and because our system is contrary to his , or because he is deaf and cannot hear us , or because he is maimed and cannot help us . Why ara not women , boys , and girls admitted , if they like ?— - PLUMB .

FREEMASONRY ABOUT 152 YEARS OLD ( p . 173 ) . I have read Bro . Sanderson ' s remarks , but I can see no proof that speculative Freemasonry was practiced by the lodge he alludes to at page 109 . It seems to me that said lodge was merely an operative Mason ' s lodge or friendly society into which

operatives were admitted upon easier terms than gentlemen , which was one distinction ; however , I shall have more to say shortly , and I hope to the point , should fortune favour . If I could get a look at these old records for a fewdays—if the lodge would trust me with them—I should he happy to read them carefully and give every consideration to their contents . — "W . P . BUCHAN .

MASONIC BIBLIOGRAPHY . I extract from a catalogue of a bookseller titles and prices of two books : —¦ " 145 FEEEMASONET . —Inwood ( J . ) Sermons in which are Explained the Eeligious , Moral , and Political Virtues of Freemasonry , Svo , boards , uncut , 4 s . Deptford 1799 ,

, " 146 FEEEMASONET . —Eobison ( J . ) Proofs of a Conspiracy against all the Eeligions and Governments of Europe carried on by Freemasons , Illuminati , & c , Svo , calf neat , 4 s . 1797 . " —A .

MASONIC CEREMONIES . Crux has not understood even yet the bearing of my remarks as to the three officers . I called his attention to the system on which the ceremonies and lectures are composed , which is not the system of the present day , but one which was

handed down during the middle ages and preserved far down in the last century . It is this system which has given us threes , fives , sevens , as it did to many branches of learning . I stated , as to the case in point , first that the answer is ancientandso far as I know , it is the

, , oldest to be found in ceremonies or revelation books here or on the continent . Second , I said that it was correct , according to the system , in making another term of 3 , by excluding the O . G-.

This he cannot admit , because he says there are 4 and not 3 . I still say that his realistic view is not a true interpretation of our ceremonies , the history and tenor of which he has disregarded , * and I say further I like what he considers the errors of the ancient system to corrections such as his , which are innovationsancl which file away the ancient evidences . In

, preserving testimonies as to the mental characteristics of the ceremonies , we may be able to ascertain the true history . The ceremonies show us that to whatever extent Masonry was reconstructed in 1717 , and to whatever extent invention was resorted to , the basis of the

ceremonies is some craft ritual of remote antiquity . In its present state—mutilated and cockneyfied as it is—the E . A . ceremony or ceremonies of the various Grand Lodges and countries contains a great portion of ancient ceremony .

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