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  • July 9, 1870
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The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine, July 9, 1870: Page 10

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    Article GLASGOW ST. JOHN'S AND THE MASONIC PROCESSIOS. ← Page 2 of 2
    Article GLASGOW ST. JOHN'S AND THE MASONIC PROCESSIOS. Page 2 of 2
    Article MASONIC DEMONSTRATION IN GLASGOW AND THE GLASGOW ST. JOHN'S LODGE. Page 1 of 2 →
Page 10

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Glasgow St. John's And The Masonic Processios.

m no instance more so than in the publication of the letter from Bro . M'Guffie , which appears in to-day ' s Uerald . He introduces the remark , ' tempest in a teapot . ' Now , no simile could more aptly represent the conduct of St . John ' s upon the 3 rd inst . than a ' tempest in a teapot . ' I presume that when Thomas M'GuffieLA ., has come to the front'Delta' has

re-, , tired . I should have liked him to haA'e stated his evidence for certain statements he made , and which I called in question before he did so ; until he does so , I consider him mistaken . "As to the members ofthe Glasgow Freemen Operative St . John ' s Lodge carrying the working tools at

several Masonic processions in Glasgow , that Avas sometimes conceded to them for the sake of peace , and they , being members of the GlasgoAv Incorporation of Masons , were always able to bring a great deal of local influence to bear in their favour ; e . g ., at the laying of the foundation stone of the

Jamaicastreet Bridge in 1833 we find that , according to the programme , the St . John ' s Lodge were not to be allowed to occupy the position they wanted . However , they got up a large meeting on the subject , appointed a committee to wait on Dr . Cleland and the Lord Provost to remonstrate Avith them" aud thus by

; means of their local influence , and no doubt by appealing to their privileges as stated in their pretended Malcolm Canmore , Charter , which Dr . Cleland had unluckily published at 2 iage 4 S 5 , vol . ii ., of his 'Annals of Glasgow , ' they managed to carry their point , not because they Avere right , but because they then were

powerful , and the parties they were dealing wdth un-SAvare that the Malcolm document was a comparatively recent forgery . The reason why this pretended Malcolm Canmore Charter was ' discovered' in 1 S 06 Avas this : —At that time , the Grand Lodge of Scotland Had passed a motion that all lodges out of its pale not to

were be allowed to be present at any demonstration at which it Avas acting . Hence in 1806 the St . John ' s brethren Avere in a fix ; they not only Avanted to be present , but also to occupv the first position . However , Malcolm ' s Charter , being most opportunel y 'discovered , ' helped them out of their

difficulties . At that time the St . Mungo resisted them , but local influence , assisted hy a ' roval charter , ' prevailed . So we see that Bro . M'Guffie is mistaken Avhen he says ' there was never any hitch . ' " As to the idea that the GlasgoAv St . John ' s practised speculative Masonry before the institution of

the Grand Lod ge of Scotland in 1736 , I should like to see proof oi that . "I never cither kucAv or heard of any practical Mason—Mason or man—Avho worked the three degrees , and I can only point to one E . W . M . who ever did so , and that was in 1 SGG , and he Avas a painter , and of the other

office bearers who have done so one is a smith and the other a plumber , and it is within the last five years these began to work , - so that Avhen ivo look under the surface , Avhere do all the pretensions of this St . John ' s Ledge go to ? Had all the ' longarray of past office bearers' been put through a ' Civil Service examination , " where would they have all gone to ?

"As to the proof that this pretended Malcolm Charter is a forgery , I may state that the present E . W . M ., Bro . Baird , and another past office bearer of the lodge , were deputed by the lodge to call upon

Glasgow St. John's And The Masonic Processios.

Professor Cosmos Innes at Edinhurgh , and hear his opinion on the matter . Now this opinion is recorded in their own minute book , and he said the thing was a forgery , executed within the last 150 year , and made up of pieces taken out of different charters and stuck together . The late Professor Arnott called it a forgery . The late Mr . Paganeditor of this newspaper ,

, acknoAvledged it to be a forgery , stating that he had been misled hy the remarks of the late Mr . Miller , E . W . M . of St . Mark's Lodge . Our late Pro . G . M ., Bro . Capt . Speirs , M . P ., also says .- —'' Seeing it is an imposition , it is a good thing that it should be shown up . ' One of their own past office bearers who was

giving a sketch of the proceedings of the lodge , as recorded in their oldest extant minute book , iu the Freemasons' Magazine , of date Sth January , 1870 , & c , also says : — 'This charter , forged , as I believe , hy a Mr . C . in 1 S 06 , and by his influence inserted into Dr . Cleland ' s " Annals of GlasgoAv , " is one of the

most disgusting Masonic frauds I have yet met with , and its continued promulgation is not only a disgrace to tbe lodge itself , but also tends to the discredit of the whole Craft at large . The Mr . C . alluded to was , I understand , clever enough , but rather too fond of his dram . ' As the Avhole question is gone into at

length in the columns of the said magazine , I Avould only here say that the forger seems to have used M'fjre ' s " History of Glasgow , " as the style , & c , of the Latin shows . I would also call attention to the absurdity of the assertion that the Glasgow St . John ' s

Lodge and the Incorporation of Masons were chartered in the middle of the eleventh century , while even Glasgow itself was not chartered until near the end of the twelfth . As to the assertion that the Court of Session admitted the authenticity of this pretended charter , that is a mere dream , and pure ' bosh' and I defy Bro . Thomas M'GuffieLA . to prove

, , , his assertion . " As to the E . W . M . receiving a testimonial from some of the office bearers and members of St . John ' s I shall not say much—testimonials are sometimes given for rather queer reasons . " Although , as I mentioned above , Bro . Baird was

one of the deputation who heard Professor Inne's opinion regarding this pretended charter , he has hitherto acted and spoken in defiance of it , and thus catered to the ignorant pretensions of the majority of the members of the lodge ; while the other brother AVIIO accompanied him , and who has since supported

the opinion of Professor Innes , and in the opinion of neutral parties proved him to be correct , is of course ' black-ball'd' and charged with conspiring to lower the dignity of his lodge . However , there is no doubt the truth will be established in the end . "I must apologise for taking up so much of

your valuable space , and sincerely trust that hereafter the St . John ' s will think more of principles than pretensions , perceiving it to he their duty to support what are stated to be the foundations of speculative Masonry—viz ., brotherly love , relief , and truth . —I am , & c , MASONICUS .

Masonic Demonstration In Glasgow And The Glasgow St. John's Lodge.

MASONIC DEMONSTRATION IN GLASGOW AND THE GLASGOW ST . JOHN'S LODGE .

TO THE EDITOE OI ! THE FREEMASONS * MAGAZINE AND MASONIC SIIEEOB . Dear Sir and Brother , —The following letter of " Delta ' s" closes the discussion upon this subject in

“The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine: 1870-07-09, Page 10” Masonic Periodicals Online, Library and Museum of Freemasonry, 15 May 2025, django:8000/periodicals/mmr/issues/mmr_09071870/page/10/.
  • List
  • Grid
Title Category Page
Untitled Article 1
MASONIC RED CROSS ORDER. Article 1
HISTORY OF FREEMASONRY IN WORCESTERSHIRE. Article 5
MASONIC JOTTINGS.—No. 27. Article 7
SPECULATIVE MASONRY OF ANCIENT NATIONS VARIED. Article 7
MASONIC NOTES AND QUERIES. Article 7
"FANO NE PROFANO." Article 8
" GLASGOW FREEMEN OPERATIVE ST. JOHN'S LODGE. Article 9
GLASGOW ST. JOHN'S AND THE MASONIC PROCESSIOS. Article 9
MASONIC DEMONSTRATION IN GLASGOW AND THE GLASGOW ST. JOHN'S LODGE. Article 10
Untitled Article 12
MASONIC MEMS. Article 12
Craft Masonry. Article 12
PROVINCIAL. Article 12
IRELAND. Article 17
INDIA. Article 17
ROYAL ARCH. Article 18
MARK MASONRY. Article 18
ANCIENT AND ACCEPTED RITE. Article 18
THE ROYAL ORDER OF SCOTLAND. Article 18
Poetry. Article 19
Obituary. Article 19
BRO. CAPT. GEORGE FEAL LAMERT. Article 20
LIST OF LODGE, MEETINGS, &c., FOR WEEK ENDING 16TH, JULY 1870. Article 20
TO CORRESPONDENTS. Article 20
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Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.

Glasgow St. John's And The Masonic Processios.

m no instance more so than in the publication of the letter from Bro . M'Guffie , which appears in to-day ' s Uerald . He introduces the remark , ' tempest in a teapot . ' Now , no simile could more aptly represent the conduct of St . John ' s upon the 3 rd inst . than a ' tempest in a teapot . ' I presume that when Thomas M'GuffieLA ., has come to the front'Delta' has

re-, , tired . I should have liked him to haA'e stated his evidence for certain statements he made , and which I called in question before he did so ; until he does so , I consider him mistaken . "As to the members ofthe Glasgow Freemen Operative St . John ' s Lodge carrying the working tools at

several Masonic processions in Glasgow , that Avas sometimes conceded to them for the sake of peace , and they , being members of the GlasgoAv Incorporation of Masons , were always able to bring a great deal of local influence to bear in their favour ; e . g ., at the laying of the foundation stone of the

Jamaicastreet Bridge in 1833 we find that , according to the programme , the St . John ' s Lodge were not to be allowed to occupy the position they wanted . However , they got up a large meeting on the subject , appointed a committee to wait on Dr . Cleland and the Lord Provost to remonstrate Avith them" aud thus by

; means of their local influence , and no doubt by appealing to their privileges as stated in their pretended Malcolm Canmore , Charter , which Dr . Cleland had unluckily published at 2 iage 4 S 5 , vol . ii ., of his 'Annals of Glasgow , ' they managed to carry their point , not because they Avere right , but because they then were

powerful , and the parties they were dealing wdth un-SAvare that the Malcolm document was a comparatively recent forgery . The reason why this pretended Malcolm Canmore Charter was ' discovered' in 1 S 06 Avas this : —At that time , the Grand Lodge of Scotland Had passed a motion that all lodges out of its pale not to

were be allowed to be present at any demonstration at which it Avas acting . Hence in 1806 the St . John ' s brethren Avere in a fix ; they not only Avanted to be present , but also to occupv the first position . However , Malcolm ' s Charter , being most opportunel y 'discovered , ' helped them out of their

difficulties . At that time the St . Mungo resisted them , but local influence , assisted hy a ' roval charter , ' prevailed . So we see that Bro . M'Guffie is mistaken Avhen he says ' there was never any hitch . ' " As to the idea that the GlasgoAv St . John ' s practised speculative Masonry before the institution of

the Grand Lod ge of Scotland in 1736 , I should like to see proof oi that . "I never cither kucAv or heard of any practical Mason—Mason or man—Avho worked the three degrees , and I can only point to one E . W . M . who ever did so , and that was in 1 SGG , and he Avas a painter , and of the other

office bearers who have done so one is a smith and the other a plumber , and it is within the last five years these began to work , - so that Avhen ivo look under the surface , Avhere do all the pretensions of this St . John ' s Ledge go to ? Had all the ' longarray of past office bearers' been put through a ' Civil Service examination , " where would they have all gone to ?

"As to the proof that this pretended Malcolm Charter is a forgery , I may state that the present E . W . M ., Bro . Baird , and another past office bearer of the lodge , were deputed by the lodge to call upon

Glasgow St. John's And The Masonic Processios.

Professor Cosmos Innes at Edinhurgh , and hear his opinion on the matter . Now this opinion is recorded in their own minute book , and he said the thing was a forgery , executed within the last 150 year , and made up of pieces taken out of different charters and stuck together . The late Professor Arnott called it a forgery . The late Mr . Paganeditor of this newspaper ,

, acknoAvledged it to be a forgery , stating that he had been misled hy the remarks of the late Mr . Miller , E . W . M . of St . Mark's Lodge . Our late Pro . G . M ., Bro . Capt . Speirs , M . P ., also says .- —'' Seeing it is an imposition , it is a good thing that it should be shown up . ' One of their own past office bearers who was

giving a sketch of the proceedings of the lodge , as recorded in their oldest extant minute book , iu the Freemasons' Magazine , of date Sth January , 1870 , & c , also says : — 'This charter , forged , as I believe , hy a Mr . C . in 1 S 06 , and by his influence inserted into Dr . Cleland ' s " Annals of GlasgoAv , " is one of the

most disgusting Masonic frauds I have yet met with , and its continued promulgation is not only a disgrace to tbe lodge itself , but also tends to the discredit of the whole Craft at large . The Mr . C . alluded to was , I understand , clever enough , but rather too fond of his dram . ' As the Avhole question is gone into at

length in the columns of the said magazine , I Avould only here say that the forger seems to have used M'fjre ' s " History of Glasgow , " as the style , & c , of the Latin shows . I would also call attention to the absurdity of the assertion that the Glasgow St . John ' s

Lodge and the Incorporation of Masons were chartered in the middle of the eleventh century , while even Glasgow itself was not chartered until near the end of the twelfth . As to the assertion that the Court of Session admitted the authenticity of this pretended charter , that is a mere dream , and pure ' bosh' and I defy Bro . Thomas M'GuffieLA . to prove

, , , his assertion . " As to the E . W . M . receiving a testimonial from some of the office bearers and members of St . John ' s I shall not say much—testimonials are sometimes given for rather queer reasons . " Although , as I mentioned above , Bro . Baird was

one of the deputation who heard Professor Inne's opinion regarding this pretended charter , he has hitherto acted and spoken in defiance of it , and thus catered to the ignorant pretensions of the majority of the members of the lodge ; while the other brother AVIIO accompanied him , and who has since supported

the opinion of Professor Innes , and in the opinion of neutral parties proved him to be correct , is of course ' black-ball'd' and charged with conspiring to lower the dignity of his lodge . However , there is no doubt the truth will be established in the end . "I must apologise for taking up so much of

your valuable space , and sincerely trust that hereafter the St . John ' s will think more of principles than pretensions , perceiving it to he their duty to support what are stated to be the foundations of speculative Masonry—viz ., brotherly love , relief , and truth . —I am , & c , MASONICUS .

Masonic Demonstration In Glasgow And The Glasgow St. John's Lodge.

MASONIC DEMONSTRATION IN GLASGOW AND THE GLASGOW ST . JOHN'S LODGE .

TO THE EDITOE OI ! THE FREEMASONS * MAGAZINE AND MASONIC SIIEEOB . Dear Sir and Brother , —The following letter of " Delta ' s" closes the discussion upon this subject in

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