Skip to main content
Museum of Freemasonry

Masonic Periodicals Online

  • Explore
  • Advanced Search
  • Home
  • Explore
  • The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine
  • June 11, 1864
  • Page 6
Current:

The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine, June 11, 1864: Page 6

  • Back to The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine, June 11, 1864
  • Print image
  • Articles/Ads
    Article MASONIC NOTES AND QUERIES. ← Page 4 of 4
    Article CORRESPONDENCE. Page 1 of 2 →
Page 6

Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.

Masonic Notes And Queries.

expunged . Masonry is said to be " a progressive science , " and certainly its ritualistic language progresses Avonderfully . A little more conservatism of old forms , old modes of expression , and the old faith , might have been advantageously preserved . If any one pretends to say that , from our existing ceremonial , he can deduce expressions to prove its antiquity ,

depend upon it such assertions are mere " leather and prunella" — " sound and fury signifying nothing . " CEBTAYNE QUESTIONS . Where can I get a copy of " Certayne Questions " put to the Craft bKing Henry VI . ?—D . T . —

y [ Nowhere . "The pretended Locke paper is a sham . The " Certayne Questions" are to be found in Preston , and nearly every other Masonic book ; they are a gross and clumsy forgery .

Correspondence.

CORRESPONDENCE .

The JSditor is not responsible for the opinions expressedly Correspondents . KNIGHTS TEMPLAR , TO THE EDITOR OF THE rEEEMASONS' MAGAZINE AND MASONIC HIEItOE . DEAR SIR AND BROTHER , —As I am not a regular attendant at Grand Conclave , or , if there , not blessed with that most inestimable of all giftsthe " gift of

, the gab , " Avould you kindly find me a corner in your pages , which may elicit a little wholesome discussion on the subject of the propositions and resolutions come to at the last Grand Conclave ; and here I would observe , that the MAGAZINE is the only organ through which proA'incial brethren can make knoAvn their

opinions and wants to their rulers , the London brethren , and therefore your independent and truthful paper Bhould receive tenfold and increasing support , from provincial brethren . " Innovation" is the Masonic " old bogie ; " but those who invoke it , forget , or are unaware , tbat all

English Masonry is an innovation—that by the 1717—1725 Constitution , before the alleged London revival , all degrees above initiate could be given iu a Grand Lodge only—the Grand Lodge at York ; that it was only gradually that other lodges from the period named obtained the privileges—occasionally

from one centre , and then from another—Scotland , Ireland , France , and America—of one degree after another , until the system of the ancient Masons was in full operation at the close of last century ; that there were no general assemblies of Blue Masons —how soon after 1717 was blue adopted ? I take the lamb skin apron to come from the Eastern girdle ,

and to have no necessary connection with the working apron of the smith or operative Mason . The early Templars always used a g irdle on investure in imitation of the Bssenes—at all , before 1717 , aud no general assemblies of Templars until 1701 ; and that these bodies could only come into operation by the

destruction of the York system of government . Of course , provincial assemblies are of still more recent date than the Grand Lodges and Encampments in London ; such being the case , and everything mutable , why not innovate still further , by restoring something like the ancient system of government—for a more

mongrel affair than the present never was conceived by the brain of man . Where on earth did it originate ? What is it ? What are we ? Until 1800 , 1 can find mention of no more than

three officers in a private encampment , viz ., the Royal Grand Commander , the Senior Grand Commander , and the Junior Grand Commander ( by-the-bye , a Malta title—for preceptor was the term used by the-Templars—though as Ave have now neither castles ormonasteries , there can be no house preceptors in the

sense in Avhich it was anciently used ) . So that to these ancient knights the present series—perfection itself in the eyes of some—would be innovation , and where is the authority for them ? As for the term " Masonic" Knights Templar , I can find no traces of its use in the best province in England before 1851 though Dunckerly uses the term in his Avarrants between 1791-1796 , but it was never adopted , and

is pure nonsense . In the Province of Lancashire there is now a proposition to place £ 5 5 s . in the hands of the Prov . G . Commander to send a brother , to London to represent the province ; but what is the value of such a proposition , for these innovations are scarcely yet recognised by Grand Conclave ; an d I would suggest that

the statutes recognised them as the Ancient Bailiwicks —provinces , in the Ancient Templar signification of the term they are not , for a province was alunyne like England—giving a vote to the Bailiff , Master , Prior , or Prov . G . Commander , and his two leading officers or captains ; and compelling the head of these

Bailiwicks to record the votes of each encampment , which , under the present system , are virtually unrepresented . Of course some sop should be throAvn to the oldest encampment in each province , for however much consternation the assertion may cause , its E . C . is , of descent and of right , the true Prov . G . Commander of

the province . It is rather a sapient idea to confine the recent concession of election of Prelate to the Colonies . If of use anywhere it would have been in England , where we have so many excellent brethren amongst the clergy . As to the Arch qualification , why not render a brother eligible Avho has received either the Arch or

the Rose Croix ? This , I know , is like making a Master before an Apprentice -, but then it will only be . imitating the policy of the S . C ., which has annulled the Templar qualification , throwing into the bargain a refusal to recognise the old governing body in any shape . Many years ago there was au encampment established at Stockport under warrant from the

Duke of Kent , which did not compel its members to be Masons at all ; aud the Jerusalem Encampment , Manchester , passed a law in 1786 , requiring all knights who had received the Templar degree before the Royal Arch to be " remade . " This encampment Avas formed by one Athol Lodge ( No . 39 ) . Qut of England ( Avhere

we are fortunately blessed with universal Masonry , and Avhere there is universality there must , of course be , the greatest freedom ) say in Ireland , a brother would be admitted into an Apprentice lodge in the clothing , of any Masonic degree he preferred ; and if a visitor , on his admission the Master would address him thus :

Brother , from Avheuce come you ? A . From the worthy and worshipful Lodge of St . John in the East . Q . What rank do you hold ? A . ( say ) A Knight Templar . W . M . Brethren , I call upon you to salute the worthy knight . But this is nothing to us ; the Irish are a benig hted race - , they practise Ancient York Masonry ; they dwell in the Masonic

“The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine: 1864-06-11, Page 6” Masonic Periodicals Online, Library and Museum of Freemasonry, 23 July 2025, django:8000/periodicals/mmr/issues/mmr_11061864/page/6/.
  • List
  • Grid
Title Category Page
CLASSICAL THEOLOGY.—LXXVI. Article 1
THE INTERIOR OE A GOTHIC MINSTER. Article 2
MASONIC NOTES AND QUERIES. Article 3
CORRESPONDENCE. Article 6
THE MASONIC MIRROR. Article 7
METROPOLITAN. Article 7
PROVINCIAL. Article 9
ANCIENT AND ACCEPTED RITE. Article 11
MARK MASONRY. Article 12
IRELAND. Article 12
Untitled Article 12
CHANNEL ISLANDS. Article 13
TURKEY. Article 13
COLONIAL. Article 14
CHINA. Article 15
THE WEEK. Article 17
TO CORRESPONDENTS. Article 20
Page 1

Page 1

1 Article
Page 2

Page 2

1 Article
Page 3

Page 3

3 Articles
Page 4

Page 4

1 Article
Page 5

Page 5

1 Article
Page 6

Page 6

2 Articles
Page 7

Page 7

3 Articles
Page 8

Page 8

1 Article
Page 9

Page 9

2 Articles
Page 10

Page 10

1 Article
Page 11

Page 11

3 Articles
Page 12

Page 12

4 Articles
Page 13

Page 13

3 Articles
Page 14

Page 14

2 Articles
Page 15

Page 15

2 Articles
Page 16

Page 16

1 Article
Page 17

Page 17

3 Articles
Page 18

Page 18

1 Article
Page 19

Page 19

1 Article
Page 20

Page 20

3 Articles
Page 6

Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.

Masonic Notes And Queries.

expunged . Masonry is said to be " a progressive science , " and certainly its ritualistic language progresses Avonderfully . A little more conservatism of old forms , old modes of expression , and the old faith , might have been advantageously preserved . If any one pretends to say that , from our existing ceremonial , he can deduce expressions to prove its antiquity ,

depend upon it such assertions are mere " leather and prunella" — " sound and fury signifying nothing . " CEBTAYNE QUESTIONS . Where can I get a copy of " Certayne Questions " put to the Craft bKing Henry VI . ?—D . T . —

y [ Nowhere . "The pretended Locke paper is a sham . The " Certayne Questions" are to be found in Preston , and nearly every other Masonic book ; they are a gross and clumsy forgery .

Correspondence.

CORRESPONDENCE .

The JSditor is not responsible for the opinions expressedly Correspondents . KNIGHTS TEMPLAR , TO THE EDITOR OF THE rEEEMASONS' MAGAZINE AND MASONIC HIEItOE . DEAR SIR AND BROTHER , —As I am not a regular attendant at Grand Conclave , or , if there , not blessed with that most inestimable of all giftsthe " gift of

, the gab , " Avould you kindly find me a corner in your pages , which may elicit a little wholesome discussion on the subject of the propositions and resolutions come to at the last Grand Conclave ; and here I would observe , that the MAGAZINE is the only organ through which proA'incial brethren can make knoAvn their

opinions and wants to their rulers , the London brethren , and therefore your independent and truthful paper Bhould receive tenfold and increasing support , from provincial brethren . " Innovation" is the Masonic " old bogie ; " but those who invoke it , forget , or are unaware , tbat all

English Masonry is an innovation—that by the 1717—1725 Constitution , before the alleged London revival , all degrees above initiate could be given iu a Grand Lodge only—the Grand Lodge at York ; that it was only gradually that other lodges from the period named obtained the privileges—occasionally

from one centre , and then from another—Scotland , Ireland , France , and America—of one degree after another , until the system of the ancient Masons was in full operation at the close of last century ; that there were no general assemblies of Blue Masons —how soon after 1717 was blue adopted ? I take the lamb skin apron to come from the Eastern girdle ,

and to have no necessary connection with the working apron of the smith or operative Mason . The early Templars always used a g irdle on investure in imitation of the Bssenes—at all , before 1717 , aud no general assemblies of Templars until 1701 ; and that these bodies could only come into operation by the

destruction of the York system of government . Of course , provincial assemblies are of still more recent date than the Grand Lodges and Encampments in London ; such being the case , and everything mutable , why not innovate still further , by restoring something like the ancient system of government—for a more

mongrel affair than the present never was conceived by the brain of man . Where on earth did it originate ? What is it ? What are we ? Until 1800 , 1 can find mention of no more than

three officers in a private encampment , viz ., the Royal Grand Commander , the Senior Grand Commander , and the Junior Grand Commander ( by-the-bye , a Malta title—for preceptor was the term used by the-Templars—though as Ave have now neither castles ormonasteries , there can be no house preceptors in the

sense in Avhich it was anciently used ) . So that to these ancient knights the present series—perfection itself in the eyes of some—would be innovation , and where is the authority for them ? As for the term " Masonic" Knights Templar , I can find no traces of its use in the best province in England before 1851 though Dunckerly uses the term in his Avarrants between 1791-1796 , but it was never adopted , and

is pure nonsense . In the Province of Lancashire there is now a proposition to place £ 5 5 s . in the hands of the Prov . G . Commander to send a brother , to London to represent the province ; but what is the value of such a proposition , for these innovations are scarcely yet recognised by Grand Conclave ; an d I would suggest that

the statutes recognised them as the Ancient Bailiwicks —provinces , in the Ancient Templar signification of the term they are not , for a province was alunyne like England—giving a vote to the Bailiff , Master , Prior , or Prov . G . Commander , and his two leading officers or captains ; and compelling the head of these

Bailiwicks to record the votes of each encampment , which , under the present system , are virtually unrepresented . Of course some sop should be throAvn to the oldest encampment in each province , for however much consternation the assertion may cause , its E . C . is , of descent and of right , the true Prov . G . Commander of

the province . It is rather a sapient idea to confine the recent concession of election of Prelate to the Colonies . If of use anywhere it would have been in England , where we have so many excellent brethren amongst the clergy . As to the Arch qualification , why not render a brother eligible Avho has received either the Arch or

the Rose Croix ? This , I know , is like making a Master before an Apprentice -, but then it will only be . imitating the policy of the S . C ., which has annulled the Templar qualification , throwing into the bargain a refusal to recognise the old governing body in any shape . Many years ago there was au encampment established at Stockport under warrant from the

Duke of Kent , which did not compel its members to be Masons at all ; aud the Jerusalem Encampment , Manchester , passed a law in 1786 , requiring all knights who had received the Templar degree before the Royal Arch to be " remade . " This encampment Avas formed by one Athol Lodge ( No . 39 ) . Qut of England ( Avhere

we are fortunately blessed with universal Masonry , and Avhere there is universality there must , of course be , the greatest freedom ) say in Ireland , a brother would be admitted into an Apprentice lodge in the clothing , of any Masonic degree he preferred ; and if a visitor , on his admission the Master would address him thus :

Brother , from Avheuce come you ? A . From the worthy and worshipful Lodge of St . John in the East . Q . What rank do you hold ? A . ( say ) A Knight Templar . W . M . Brethren , I call upon you to salute the worthy knight . But this is nothing to us ; the Irish are a benig hted race - , they practise Ancient York Masonry ; they dwell in the Masonic

  • Prev page
  • 1
  • 5
  • You're on page6
  • 7
  • 20
  • Next page
  • Accredited Museum Designated Outstanding Collection
  • LIBRARY AND MUSEUM CHARITABLE TRUST OF THE UNITED GRAND LODGE OF ENGLAND REGISTERED CHARITY NUMBER 1058497 / ALL RIGHTS RESERVED © 2025

  • Accessibility statement

  • Designed, developed, and maintained by King's Digital Lab

We use cookies to track usage and preferences.

Privacy & cookie policy