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  • The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine
  • March 12, 1864
  • Page 10
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The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine, March 12, 1864: Page 10

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    Article TEMPLAR FUNERAL SERVICE. ← Page 3 of 3
    Article CORRESPONDENCE. Page 1 of 1
Page 10

Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.

Templar Funeral Service.

pleases them to continue so doing—why in won't hurt us , or Freemasonry either . ] ANCIENT EREEMASONRT . " J . J . E ., P . M . 77 , " writes : — "A friend has furnished me with the following copy of a MS . ( modernised ) taken from the oriinalwhich is in the

g , Bodleian Library , in the handwriting of King Henry VI ., on Masonry , about the 14 th or loth century . " Will "J . J . E . 's " friend kindly furnish a clue to the collection , in the Bodleian , where this MS ., in the handwriting of King Ilenry VI , alowl the 14-th or 15 tk century , is to be found ? It looks very like

another version of the spurious Locke MS ., and it certainly is not made any clearer by "J . J . E . ' s " statement that the King wrote it about the 14 th or 15 th century , lleury VI . reigned from 1422—61 . He might have written it in the fifteenth century , but certainly could not have done so in the 14 th , seeing he was not born at its expiration . —MATTHEW COOKE .

_ The note of "J . J . E ., P . M . 77 , " relative to " Ancient Freemasonry , " and to the modernised copy of a MS . furnished him by a friend , has taken me to my own collection on the subject . Sometime back I turned my attention to the question of this MS ., which is mentioned in all Masonic works , but could

find nothing certain or satisfactory . I applied among others to the sub-librarian of the Bodleian Library , the Eev . Alfred Nachman , who thus writes in reply : — " I believe that the MS . on Masonry , said to have been transcribed by Leland , is a myth . " I remember Dr . Bandinel making thorough search for it to no

purpose , and he seldom gave a case up till it was hopeless . The tract in the " Gentleman's Magazine " purports to be printed from a small pamphlet published at Frankfort iu 17-1-8 . I much suspect the truth even of that . At least I can find no trace of

it m any German bibliographical work . In Hudderford's " Life of Leland , " mention is made of the MS ., in these words : — " It also appears that an aucient MS . of Leland ' s , has long remained in the Bodleian ; but no reference is giveu , and in the appendix the tract is reprinted from the " Gentleman ' s Magazine . " I should be gladthereforeif the

, , friend of " J . J . E . " would give me a reference to the original from which he has taken the modernised copy , and which is still , he tells us , in the Bodleian library , in the haudwriting of Henry VI ., about tlie 14 th aud 15 th century . If this statement is correct the value of the document can be soon settled . I

confess that I have the greatest doubts as to the genuineness of the supposed MS ., and can only regard it as'the " pious fraud" of some well meaning , but mistaken , brother in former days . —A . F . A . WOOHEORD , E . G ., Svvellington , Leeds , March 7 , 1 SG 4 .

Correspondence.

CORRESPONDENCE .

The Editor U not responsihU for the opinions expressed by Correspondents , A MODEST EEQTJEST . 10 IH . E EOTTOE OE THE EPEESASOITS' MAGAZIKE A ! TD MASONIC JIIKROE . DEAR SIR AND BROTHER , —AS I understand the direct sanction of the M . W . the Grand Master to your insertion of reports of Masonic proceedings in Craft Lodges , furnished you by your regular and

acknowledged correspondents , is limited to the extent that the lodge shall not , as a lodge , have declared against the publication of any of its proceedings , I wish you clearly to understand the position in which you now stand with the Glamorgan Lodge ( No . 36 ) . Be it known , then , to yourself and to the Masonic

world , that the official communication which appeared in your last week ' s MAGAZINE under the heading " A Modest Eequest , " was the ( illegitimate ) offspring of a lodge composed , besides the W . M . and Past Mastersof ONE officer and EIVE members . I trust ,

, therefore , that the expression of such a " hope , " said to be that of " the W . M ., Officers , and brethren , " will have its due weight , particularly when I inform you that at the next meeting a proposition will be made to the effect that the minutes of the former

crowded lodge be not confirmed , the debate upon which , should an assembly worthy the name of a lodge take place , I will communicate . One word in reference to a comment I have heard upon the apparently discourteous reply vouchsafed

this weighty communication , and that will be to express an opinion , by no means singular , that you only obeyed the dictates of our grandest parallel , and answered a foolish request " according to its folly . " Yours truly aud fraternally , A CORRESPONDENT . Cardiff , 7 th March , 1864 .

TO TFIE EDITOE OF THE PHEE 3 IASOX 8 ' 3 UGAZIXE AXD MASOHIC MIKEOE . SIR AND BROTHER , —As an old and perfectly independent member of Lodge 43 , although not fond of rushing into print , allow me to assure you and your readers that the sentiments conveyed in the " Modest Eequest" of our Secretary last week , do not at all

represent the feeling ofmyself , or , I believe , of a majority of the brethren , but are only the opinions of a small body , who have for the last few years been doing everything likely to destroy good feeling iu the lodge , to whom , however , we are indebted for the flourishing

Bute Lodge , aud whose mouthpiece our " absent " Secretary was made . Let us hope that during his mastership next year things will take a turn , as I am sure , if he does not sell himself to a clique , he will be able to do much to save the lodge .

I have not been a regular attendant at the lodge lately , but am given to understand , upon good authority , that the reports you have inserted , by whomsoever written , have contained only an accurate account of the proceedings ; and that one of the opponents of the Masonic press has admitted , in open lodge , that they

certainly have steered very close to the wind . I trust , therefor ? , you will not take the " Modest Eequest " of tbe Secretary as the ultimatum of the lodge , but wait for a resolution passed by a majority assembled in something like a large lodge . Yours truly and fraternally , AN ENEIIX OE MASONIC CLIQUES . Cardiff , Sth March , 18 G 4 .

“The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine: 1864-03-12, Page 10” Masonic Periodicals Online, Library and Museum of Freemasonry, 21 June 2025, django:8000/periodicals/mmr/issues/mmr_12031864/page/10/.
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Title Category Page
LIGHTNING. Article 1
THE BOYS' SCHOOL. Article 1
ROYAL BENEVOLENT INSTITUTION. Article 1
THE MASONIC UNIVERSITY OF KENTUCKY. Article 1
THE SPIRIT OF GOTHIC ART. Article 3
MASONIC NOTES AND QUERIES. Article 5
TEMPLAR FUNERAL SERVICE. Article 8
CORRESPONDENCE. Article 10
THE MASONIC MIRROR. Article 11
PROVINCIAL. Article 14
ROYAL ARCH. Article 15
CHANNEL ISLANDS. Article 15
INDIA. Article 15
Obituary. Article 16
THE WEEK. Article 17
TO CORRESPONDENTS. Article 20
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Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.

Templar Funeral Service.

pleases them to continue so doing—why in won't hurt us , or Freemasonry either . ] ANCIENT EREEMASONRT . " J . J . E ., P . M . 77 , " writes : — "A friend has furnished me with the following copy of a MS . ( modernised ) taken from the oriinalwhich is in the

g , Bodleian Library , in the handwriting of King Henry VI ., on Masonry , about the 14 th or loth century . " Will "J . J . E . 's " friend kindly furnish a clue to the collection , in the Bodleian , where this MS ., in the handwriting of King Ilenry VI , alowl the 14-th or 15 tk century , is to be found ? It looks very like

another version of the spurious Locke MS ., and it certainly is not made any clearer by "J . J . E . ' s " statement that the King wrote it about the 14 th or 15 th century , lleury VI . reigned from 1422—61 . He might have written it in the fifteenth century , but certainly could not have done so in the 14 th , seeing he was not born at its expiration . —MATTHEW COOKE .

_ The note of "J . J . E ., P . M . 77 , " relative to " Ancient Freemasonry , " and to the modernised copy of a MS . furnished him by a friend , has taken me to my own collection on the subject . Sometime back I turned my attention to the question of this MS ., which is mentioned in all Masonic works , but could

find nothing certain or satisfactory . I applied among others to the sub-librarian of the Bodleian Library , the Eev . Alfred Nachman , who thus writes in reply : — " I believe that the MS . on Masonry , said to have been transcribed by Leland , is a myth . " I remember Dr . Bandinel making thorough search for it to no

purpose , and he seldom gave a case up till it was hopeless . The tract in the " Gentleman's Magazine " purports to be printed from a small pamphlet published at Frankfort iu 17-1-8 . I much suspect the truth even of that . At least I can find no trace of

it m any German bibliographical work . In Hudderford's " Life of Leland , " mention is made of the MS ., in these words : — " It also appears that an aucient MS . of Leland ' s , has long remained in the Bodleian ; but no reference is giveu , and in the appendix the tract is reprinted from the " Gentleman ' s Magazine . " I should be gladthereforeif the

, , friend of " J . J . E . " would give me a reference to the original from which he has taken the modernised copy , and which is still , he tells us , in the Bodleian library , in the haudwriting of Henry VI ., about tlie 14 th aud 15 th century . If this statement is correct the value of the document can be soon settled . I

confess that I have the greatest doubts as to the genuineness of the supposed MS ., and can only regard it as'the " pious fraud" of some well meaning , but mistaken , brother in former days . —A . F . A . WOOHEORD , E . G ., Svvellington , Leeds , March 7 , 1 SG 4 .

Correspondence.

CORRESPONDENCE .

The Editor U not responsihU for the opinions expressed by Correspondents , A MODEST EEQTJEST . 10 IH . E EOTTOE OE THE EPEESASOITS' MAGAZIKE A ! TD MASONIC JIIKROE . DEAR SIR AND BROTHER , —AS I understand the direct sanction of the M . W . the Grand Master to your insertion of reports of Masonic proceedings in Craft Lodges , furnished you by your regular and

acknowledged correspondents , is limited to the extent that the lodge shall not , as a lodge , have declared against the publication of any of its proceedings , I wish you clearly to understand the position in which you now stand with the Glamorgan Lodge ( No . 36 ) . Be it known , then , to yourself and to the Masonic

world , that the official communication which appeared in your last week ' s MAGAZINE under the heading " A Modest Eequest , " was the ( illegitimate ) offspring of a lodge composed , besides the W . M . and Past Mastersof ONE officer and EIVE members . I trust ,

, therefore , that the expression of such a " hope , " said to be that of " the W . M ., Officers , and brethren , " will have its due weight , particularly when I inform you that at the next meeting a proposition will be made to the effect that the minutes of the former

crowded lodge be not confirmed , the debate upon which , should an assembly worthy the name of a lodge take place , I will communicate . One word in reference to a comment I have heard upon the apparently discourteous reply vouchsafed

this weighty communication , and that will be to express an opinion , by no means singular , that you only obeyed the dictates of our grandest parallel , and answered a foolish request " according to its folly . " Yours truly aud fraternally , A CORRESPONDENT . Cardiff , 7 th March , 1864 .

TO TFIE EDITOE OF THE PHEE 3 IASOX 8 ' 3 UGAZIXE AXD MASOHIC MIKEOE . SIR AND BROTHER , —As an old and perfectly independent member of Lodge 43 , although not fond of rushing into print , allow me to assure you and your readers that the sentiments conveyed in the " Modest Eequest" of our Secretary last week , do not at all

represent the feeling ofmyself , or , I believe , of a majority of the brethren , but are only the opinions of a small body , who have for the last few years been doing everything likely to destroy good feeling iu the lodge , to whom , however , we are indebted for the flourishing

Bute Lodge , aud whose mouthpiece our " absent " Secretary was made . Let us hope that during his mastership next year things will take a turn , as I am sure , if he does not sell himself to a clique , he will be able to do much to save the lodge .

I have not been a regular attendant at the lodge lately , but am given to understand , upon good authority , that the reports you have inserted , by whomsoever written , have contained only an accurate account of the proceedings ; and that one of the opponents of the Masonic press has admitted , in open lodge , that they

certainly have steered very close to the wind . I trust , therefor ? , you will not take the " Modest Eequest " of tbe Secretary as the ultimatum of the lodge , but wait for a resolution passed by a majority assembled in something like a large lodge . Yours truly and fraternally , AN ENEIIX OE MASONIC CLIQUES . Cardiff , Sth March , 18 G 4 .

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