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  • Sept. 15, 1860
  • Page 13
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The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine, Sept. 15, 1860: Page 13

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Correspondence.

CORRESPONDENCE .

[ THE E DITOB does not hold himself responsible for any opinions entertained by Correspondents . ' ]

THE NEW SELF-STYLED LODGE OE MARK MASTERS . TO THE EDITOR OP THE JTBEmrASOXS' JIAGAZISE A > T > 3 I . 1 S 0 XIC MIKHOIt . DEAU SIB . AND BUOTHEU , —As I previously saicl in a former letter of mine on this subject , I shall leave Bro . R . E . X . to luxuriate in any amount , he may please to pen , of fine writing . My business is ivith . facts . I have already disposed of the

matter as far as regards the 111 . Bros . Colo , and Stebbing , unci have no need to qualify one word which I have heretofore written . R . E . X . states thafc I know " that there has existed for somo j-eavs a Grand Mark Masters' Lodge , established precisely in the manlier in which the Grand Craft Lodge was constructed . " This I deny , and will not be reputed to have

acknowledged a falsehood , a sham , or the indecent caricature of the Grand Lodge of England , which Bro . R . E . X . delights to decry , in order to raise his more exalted and moro illustrious new-fangled authority . I do know that some individuals have , for five years , arrogated to themselves a title ivhich is indefensible , bufc that they did this " precisely in the manner in which the Grand Lodge of

England ivas constituted , " is not true . The Grand Lodge was formed thus : —In 1717 there had been no Grand Master elected , and the Grand Lodge was in abeyance . To call ifc again into existence , the masters of four lodges did , as

warranted by the constitutions of the time , summon the brethren to meet and choose a Grand Master , and brethren from some thirty lodges met and elected the oldest W . M . present as Grand Master , and under his rule tho Grand Lodge of England ivas re-established . Now , hoiv did this New Selfstyled Cvvnud Lodge of Mark Masters act ? They did not summon the Mark Masters of any lodge . A Bon Accord mooting was heldfour Mark Masons attended it as visitors

, , the visitors were told their presence was nofc required . They refused to withdraw while the lodge was open , upon which some of the magnates retired into another room , were absent less than five minutes , and returned , stating that thoy had formed themselves into a Grand Lodge , and as the visitors were nofc named amongst the officers , and fchafc was the first Grand Mark Loclge meeting , they ' must go out , and out they

were turned . If'R . E . X . will now tell me that there is a shadow of resemblance between the two cases he can see much more than I do . Next , R . E . X . offers me his patronage and " salutary advice , " because , forsooth , he says my expressions were im-Masonic ! This I deny . I can have no sympathy with mi-Masonic assumption . An unrecognized body cannot claim

Masonic obedience , respect , or silence , from a Mason . The right of free discussion is an Englishman ' s proudest boast , and not all the sham authorities in the universe can abrogate one tittle of ifc .

The degree being upheld by several of tho most eminent Masons I admit , but they do not uphold the self-styled Gravid Mark Lodge . They cannot do so as true men and Masons . They have most of fchem sworn " to discountenance all impostors , " and this New Grand Mark Lodge is , on the face of ifc , a gross and glaring imposition , neither practising that fealt y to the law of tho land that every Mason professes

should ahvays guide him , nor assembling as individuals , but factiously , and insultingly , aping the proceedings of the Grand Lodge of England , with ivhich body the New Grand Mark Lodge can have no affinity , as the majority of its members have renounced their obligation , and gone astray after the delusive semblance they havo themselves set up . R . E . X . is very much mistaken if he thinks thafc by using

my words he will cither draw from mc an affirmation , or denial of membership . He is perfectly at liberty to enjoy any opinion he may form on the subject , as well as of " my high position in the Craft , " which ho reall y does nofc know , and of which I shall not inform him . Nor do I think R . E . X . a good tactician . He has "lefc the cat out of the bag" too soon . The agitation in favour of the Mark cler / rce will nofc avail him one jot . It will never pass in Grand Loclge , but even if ifc did , can he think tho

Correspondence.

great body of the Craft so blind as to stultify their own condemnation of the obstructive principles , known to actuate the prime movers in this affair , aud add one more to the many insults our M . W . G . M . has received from that body ? If he does , he will find he has hallooed too soon and spoilt his device . I am also obliged by the definition R . E . X . has taken the

pains fco set forth as to his " time immemorial . " It is as vague as his other general assertions . But n'importe ; lefc it pass . I have no doubt that the Jersey , Irish , and Scotch lodges , grand and subordinate , recognise the degree . Nay , more , I know they confer it . But do they acknowledge the right of this self-elected body to be supreme in England ? Say

what he will , the point for R . E . X . is—who acknowledges the new self-styled Grand Loclge of Mark Masters ? Does the Grand Lodge of England , Ireland , Scotland , or even the subordinate Mark Loclge of Jersey ? Does the Clerk of the peace for Middlesex ? No . It is as illegal , as spurious , and mi-Masonic as the self-constituted lodge of the Philadelphes .

R . E . X . asserts I wish to be informed of the antiquity of the degree—I do not ; I flatter myself I know it a little better than he does . And if his information is as correct as that given in his following sentence , the less said the better . He refers me to Gloucester Cathedral for evidence of Mason ' s Marks , but as my time is otherwise employed , I must decline going on a wild goose chase to search out

marks which were made by operative Masons long before Mark Masonry was heard of . Nor do I suppose that in a cathedral of the new foundation , like Gloucester , they maintain a Professor ! as the " sub-sacrisfcan . " If that elevated personage held such a humble post , we should be sure to find it chronicled in the " Report of the Cathedral Commissioners , " or in " the Clergy List ; " but no , it is not to be

found in either . Professor Willis , of the Archceological Society too ( which one R . E . X . is kind enough to suppress ) is paraded as understanding more of our Graff ; than Professor Wilton , the deputy sweeper of Gloucester Cathedral 1 Well , perhaps he does ; R . E . X . says so ! and I am very happy to close this letter , and sign myself , Tour Fraternal Brother in the Craft , AxTi-Srmuous MAIIK .

Proposed Masonic Hall In Norwich.

PROPOSED MASONIC HALL IN NORWICH .

TO THE EDITOIl OF THE HiEEM . lSOXs' 31 . CG . IZIXE -CXD 3 I . lS 0 . VtC lltREO DEAU SIR AND BUO ., —In my letter in the FREEMASONS ' MAGAZINE of last week on the above subject , au error of the printer crept in , which , though manifest enough , may as well be corrected . I stated "that if the sum of 5 s . each , were contributed out of the yearly subscription of the 200 brethren belonging to the Norwich Lodges , this would give

an annual sum of £ 50 , which ivould be a good rental to begin with . " The printer put 6 d , for 5 s . It is obvious 200 sixpences would not amount to £ 50 a year ; bufc the 5 s . per annum ivould be equal to loss than 6 d . each a month , which is merely a nominal payment . While on this matter , I may as well add that , according to the present system in Norwich , a certain proportion of tho

subscriptions is devoted to " refreshment , " and in this way , besides the small sum paid for the rent of the room and gas at each meeting , the landlord is remunerated for the accomodation he provides . I am sorry to say that the system has so won upon the affections of some of the brethren , that they do not altogether relish the prospect of relinquishing this species oi quid pro r [ uo . At present they

get back so much in grog , and those who take their " refreshment " at the close of the lodge ( some , by the way , aro more punctual at the latter than the former ) look upon their amount of subscription as reduced pro tanto ; and , in some instances , the return is fully equal to the investment , for tho subscriptions of the absentees aro sometimes spent in that way among those who aro present—a plan that I

have heard defended on the ground that ifc operates as an inducement to the brethren to attend to their duties . Ifc is needless to point out how degrading this system is to the dignity of Preemasonry . If a Mason ' s lodge were merely a club for the promotion of social enjoyment among its own members exclusively , there coulcl bo no objection to

“The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine: 1860-09-15, Page 13” Masonic Periodicals Online, Library and Museum of Freemasonry, 2 June 2025, django:8000/periodicals/mmr/issues/mmr_15091860/page/13/.
  • List
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Title Category Page
CLASSICAL THEOLOGY.—XXXII. Article 1
THE CRUSADES AND THE CRUSADERS.* Article 2
ARCHITECTURE AND ARCHÆOLOGY. Article 5
MASONIC NOTES AND QUERIES. Article 8
Literature. Article 9
NOTES ON LITERATURE, SCIENCE, AND ART. Article 12
CORRESPONDENCE. Article 13
PROPOSED MASONIC HALL IN NORWICH. Article 13
NEW HISTORY OF CLEVELAND. Article 14
THE MASONIC MIRROR. Article 15
METROPOLITAN. Article 15
PROVINCIAL. Article 15
ROYAL ARCH. Article 19
Obituary. Article 19
THE WEEK. Article 19
TO CORRESPONDENTS. Article 20
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Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.

Correspondence.

CORRESPONDENCE .

[ THE E DITOB does not hold himself responsible for any opinions entertained by Correspondents . ' ]

THE NEW SELF-STYLED LODGE OE MARK MASTERS . TO THE EDITOR OP THE JTBEmrASOXS' JIAGAZISE A > T > 3 I . 1 S 0 XIC MIKHOIt . DEAU SIB . AND BUOTHEU , —As I previously saicl in a former letter of mine on this subject , I shall leave Bro . R . E . X . to luxuriate in any amount , he may please to pen , of fine writing . My business is ivith . facts . I have already disposed of the

matter as far as regards the 111 . Bros . Colo , and Stebbing , unci have no need to qualify one word which I have heretofore written . R . E . X . states thafc I know " that there has existed for somo j-eavs a Grand Mark Masters' Lodge , established precisely in the manlier in which the Grand Craft Lodge was constructed . " This I deny , and will not be reputed to have

acknowledged a falsehood , a sham , or the indecent caricature of the Grand Lodge of England , which Bro . R . E . X . delights to decry , in order to raise his more exalted and moro illustrious new-fangled authority . I do know that some individuals have , for five years , arrogated to themselves a title ivhich is indefensible , bufc that they did this " precisely in the manner in which the Grand Lodge of

England ivas constituted , " is not true . The Grand Lodge was formed thus : —In 1717 there had been no Grand Master elected , and the Grand Lodge was in abeyance . To call ifc again into existence , the masters of four lodges did , as

warranted by the constitutions of the time , summon the brethren to meet and choose a Grand Master , and brethren from some thirty lodges met and elected the oldest W . M . present as Grand Master , and under his rule tho Grand Lodge of England ivas re-established . Now , hoiv did this New Selfstyled Cvvnud Lodge of Mark Masters act ? They did not summon the Mark Masters of any lodge . A Bon Accord mooting was heldfour Mark Masons attended it as visitors

, , the visitors were told their presence was nofc required . They refused to withdraw while the lodge was open , upon which some of the magnates retired into another room , were absent less than five minutes , and returned , stating that thoy had formed themselves into a Grand Lodge , and as the visitors were nofc named amongst the officers , and fchafc was the first Grand Mark Loclge meeting , they ' must go out , and out they

were turned . If'R . E . X . will now tell me that there is a shadow of resemblance between the two cases he can see much more than I do . Next , R . E . X . offers me his patronage and " salutary advice , " because , forsooth , he says my expressions were im-Masonic ! This I deny . I can have no sympathy with mi-Masonic assumption . An unrecognized body cannot claim

Masonic obedience , respect , or silence , from a Mason . The right of free discussion is an Englishman ' s proudest boast , and not all the sham authorities in the universe can abrogate one tittle of ifc .

The degree being upheld by several of tho most eminent Masons I admit , but they do not uphold the self-styled Gravid Mark Lodge . They cannot do so as true men and Masons . They have most of fchem sworn " to discountenance all impostors , " and this New Grand Mark Lodge is , on the face of ifc , a gross and glaring imposition , neither practising that fealt y to the law of tho land that every Mason professes

should ahvays guide him , nor assembling as individuals , but factiously , and insultingly , aping the proceedings of the Grand Lodge of England , with ivhich body the New Grand Mark Lodge can have no affinity , as the majority of its members have renounced their obligation , and gone astray after the delusive semblance they havo themselves set up . R . E . X . is very much mistaken if he thinks thafc by using

my words he will cither draw from mc an affirmation , or denial of membership . He is perfectly at liberty to enjoy any opinion he may form on the subject , as well as of " my high position in the Craft , " which ho reall y does nofc know , and of which I shall not inform him . Nor do I think R . E . X . a good tactician . He has "lefc the cat out of the bag" too soon . The agitation in favour of the Mark cler / rce will nofc avail him one jot . It will never pass in Grand Loclge , but even if ifc did , can he think tho

Correspondence.

great body of the Craft so blind as to stultify their own condemnation of the obstructive principles , known to actuate the prime movers in this affair , aud add one more to the many insults our M . W . G . M . has received from that body ? If he does , he will find he has hallooed too soon and spoilt his device . I am also obliged by the definition R . E . X . has taken the

pains fco set forth as to his " time immemorial . " It is as vague as his other general assertions . But n'importe ; lefc it pass . I have no doubt that the Jersey , Irish , and Scotch lodges , grand and subordinate , recognise the degree . Nay , more , I know they confer it . But do they acknowledge the right of this self-elected body to be supreme in England ? Say

what he will , the point for R . E . X . is—who acknowledges the new self-styled Grand Loclge of Mark Masters ? Does the Grand Lodge of England , Ireland , Scotland , or even the subordinate Mark Loclge of Jersey ? Does the Clerk of the peace for Middlesex ? No . It is as illegal , as spurious , and mi-Masonic as the self-constituted lodge of the Philadelphes .

R . E . X . asserts I wish to be informed of the antiquity of the degree—I do not ; I flatter myself I know it a little better than he does . And if his information is as correct as that given in his following sentence , the less said the better . He refers me to Gloucester Cathedral for evidence of Mason ' s Marks , but as my time is otherwise employed , I must decline going on a wild goose chase to search out

marks which were made by operative Masons long before Mark Masonry was heard of . Nor do I suppose that in a cathedral of the new foundation , like Gloucester , they maintain a Professor ! as the " sub-sacrisfcan . " If that elevated personage held such a humble post , we should be sure to find it chronicled in the " Report of the Cathedral Commissioners , " or in " the Clergy List ; " but no , it is not to be

found in either . Professor Willis , of the Archceological Society too ( which one R . E . X . is kind enough to suppress ) is paraded as understanding more of our Graff ; than Professor Wilton , the deputy sweeper of Gloucester Cathedral 1 Well , perhaps he does ; R . E . X . says so ! and I am very happy to close this letter , and sign myself , Tour Fraternal Brother in the Craft , AxTi-Srmuous MAIIK .

Proposed Masonic Hall In Norwich.

PROPOSED MASONIC HALL IN NORWICH .

TO THE EDITOIl OF THE HiEEM . lSOXs' 31 . CG . IZIXE -CXD 3 I . lS 0 . VtC lltREO DEAU SIR AND BUO ., —In my letter in the FREEMASONS ' MAGAZINE of last week on the above subject , au error of the printer crept in , which , though manifest enough , may as well be corrected . I stated "that if the sum of 5 s . each , were contributed out of the yearly subscription of the 200 brethren belonging to the Norwich Lodges , this would give

an annual sum of £ 50 , which ivould be a good rental to begin with . " The printer put 6 d , for 5 s . It is obvious 200 sixpences would not amount to £ 50 a year ; bufc the 5 s . per annum ivould be equal to loss than 6 d . each a month , which is merely a nominal payment . While on this matter , I may as well add that , according to the present system in Norwich , a certain proportion of tho

subscriptions is devoted to " refreshment , " and in this way , besides the small sum paid for the rent of the room and gas at each meeting , the landlord is remunerated for the accomodation he provides . I am sorry to say that the system has so won upon the affections of some of the brethren , that they do not altogether relish the prospect of relinquishing this species oi quid pro r [ uo . At present they

get back so much in grog , and those who take their " refreshment " at the close of the lodge ( some , by the way , aro more punctual at the latter than the former ) look upon their amount of subscription as reduced pro tanto ; and , in some instances , the return is fully equal to the investment , for tho subscriptions of the absentees aro sometimes spent in that way among those who aro present—a plan that I

have heard defended on the ground that ifc operates as an inducement to the brethren to attend to their duties . Ifc is needless to point out how degrading this system is to the dignity of Preemasonry . If a Mason ' s lodge were merely a club for the promotion of social enjoyment among its own members exclusively , there coulcl bo no objection to

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