Skip to main content
Museum of Freemasonry

Masonic Periodicals Online

  • Explore
  • Advanced Search
  • Home
  • Explore
  • The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine
  • April 18, 1863
  • Page 5
Current:

The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine, April 18, 1863: Page 5

  • Back to The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine, April 18, 1863
  • Print image
  • Articles/Ads
    Article MASONIC NOTES AND QUERIES. ← Page 3 of 5 →
Page 5

Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.

Masonic Notes And Queries.

The artful manner in which this paragraph is worded , is well calculated to mislead the general reader ; for it is so put , as to lead to the belief that the Executive Chiefs of the Langue of Italy , and the Grand Master ad interim , are one and the same ! But the Grand Master ceases immediately on his election or nomination to belong to any Language ; and we have already been informed that the Grand Masterad interimhas been elected " to

pre-, , serve the vitality of the Sovereign Institute ; " therefore , he must be the Head of the Order , and not the Executive Chief of the Language of Italy in particular . Such then being the case , lohy are the official cammunications , and , above all , why is tlw reply—for we are told that the communications were acknowledged by a letter dated Aug . 17 , 1843—passed over so quietlyand not given ? It would

, have been better if the communications and the reply had been included in the Syn . Sketch ; for the suppression of a despatch from the reigning Chief , elected to preserve the vitality of the Sovereign Institute , argues very unfavourably . " With the seizure of Malta , the Order lost its political power ; but neither its conventional organisation , " & c . —P . 26 .

Conventional , or rather conventual organisation ( for that is what the author evidently means ) , can only have reference to the convent ; and as the term " convent" is applied in the Order exclusively to the residence of the Grand Master , or his Lieutenant and the S . Council , & c , we have here conclusive evidence from the Syn . Sketch that the conventual organisation , i . e . supreme authority

of the Order , had not been lost . ' And with this admission , ib is impossible to understand why no mention is made of tho supreme authority of the Order in the transactions of 1827—1831 . Then we have the corporation again : — " An abeyance of the Corporation in England , for upwards of two-and-a-half centuries , did not prevent the two last monarchs of the House of Guelf from recognising the Order and wearing its Cross . "—P . 28 .

They recognised the Order equally as the other sovereigns of Europe have done , and still do . But "the two last monarchs of the House of Guelf" never recognised the " English Language . " And an abeyance of a corporation is impossible . We are now coming to remarkable statements : — - " Since the date of the last General Chapter under a Grand Master , eighty years have elapsed ; during which no Conventual Council , representing the eight langues has existed . " — P . 39 .

The Syn . Sketch was printed m 18 o 7 . Consequently , the above statement takes us back to 1777—a period when there actually were eight Languages in existence ; for the Anglo-Bavarian Langue had been created , and it was nob until 1789 that the three French Languages ceased to exist . Convenbual Council is only another term for the ordinary councils ; and on referring to the statutes , I find that either the Conventual Bailifts , or their Lieutenants ,

must be present at the ordinary council . But we have just learned that the conventual organisation of the Order had been preserved ; therefore , of course , the usual councils were held . It is needless to observe , that General Chapters and Conventval Councils are quite of a different character from each other . Yet the Syn Sketch makes them appear to be one and the same . Be Novo : —

" Since the date of the last General Chapter under a Grand Master , eighty years have elapsed ; during which time no Conventual Council , representing the eight Langues , lias existed . Hut during this interregnum in the government of the Order , its relation with the Christian Powers of Europe have been continually upheld . " —P . 29 . We have just learned that the conventual , organisation of the Order had been preserved , and we are now told that an interregnum in the government of the Order has existed for eighty years , i . e . from 1777 ; so that the Order was at Malta for twenty-one years without a government IJ

But the " continually upholding of relations with the Christian Powers , " only proves that there was no interregnum in the government of the Order ; for otherwise by whom , or by what supreme authority , could these relations have been kept up ?

"In 1815 , its ambassadors ( who at foreign courts took the place of all those not deputed by kings ) were : at London , the Commander Thuisy ; at Paris , the Bailli Ferretti ; at . Vienna , the Grand Prior Colloredo ; at Rome , the Bailli Bonaccorsi ; in Portugal , the Bailli Carvaslho ; at Madrid , the Commander Paez ; and at St . Petersburgh , ithe Duke of Serra Capriola . " —P . 29 .

If the names are correctly given , these ambassadors must all have been accredited by the Lieutenant of the Mastership—the reigning Chief elected " to preserve the vitality of the Sovereign Institute , " for I cannot make out the existence of any other authority of the Order possessing the power to exercise the prerogative of accrediting or whose would be received .

envoys , envoys " In 1843 , the ministers of the sovereign and illustrious Order were , in Austria , the Bailli-general , Count Khevenhuller ; at Parma , Count S . A itale ; in Modena , the Marquis Caradini , " & c ., & c—P . 29 . ' These ministers also must have been accredited by the Lieutenant of the Mafcership . We are then informed who the principal officers of the

Order in France have been during the same period : there was a "Grand Secretary , " and another official named the "Mandataire General "—the Baron Nottred de St . Luys . Who was the Baron , and what were his duties as Mandataire ? I seek information because , in 1858 , an individual of this name I believe figured in a process at law before the Correctional Police in . Paris ,

"foa trafficking in titles and decorations . " The admissions into the Order during the present century include the names of King George IV . and King William IV . ; Charles X of France ; the King of the Belgians ; the King of Naples ; the King of Sardinia ; the Archduke Frederic ; H . R . H . Prince-Albert , " & c ., & c—P . 30 . It is quite certain that none of tbe Kings or Princes here named would have compromised themselves by being received into tho Order , unless they were fully satisfied that their reception was at the hands of an authority , lecially constituted , and the legal representative of

the supreme authority or government of the Order . If these names are correctly given , it will be easy to ascertain when and by whom these royal personages were admitted ; and this will be conclusive evidence as to who is the recognised and legitimate Head of the Order , if there can be any doubt remaining . "From the period of the General Chapter of the French , Spanishand Portuguese Languages under Prince Camille de

, Rohan , when the plenary Capitulary Commission was constituted , which revived the language of England , the executive Sovereignty of the Order may be said to have been exercised , exclusively by the Six Langues of Auvergne , Provence , France , Aragon , England , and Castile . "—P . 30 . Let ns dissect this paragraph , which , certainly is cunningly worded .

"From the period of the General Chapter of the French , Spanish , and Portuguese langues , under Prince Camille de Rohan . " The Commission of Paris was formed in 1814 , and De Rohan died in 1816 ; and tbe official Reclamations of the Commission make no mention of the Spanish and Portuguese Knihts

g . "From the period , i . e . 1814 .... the executive Sovereignty of the Order may be said to have been exercised exclusively by the Six Langues of Auvergne , Provence , Aragon , England , and Castile . " tt " may be said to have been exercised exclusively , " but ivas it exercised exclusively ? If it was , _ why were "the proceedings of this Commission sanctioned , and

afterwards confirmed by the Lieutenant of the Magistery and the Sacred Council seated at Catania ? " ( See Syn . Sketch , p . 23 . ) The one statement contradicts the other . At p . 24 , we are informed , that " between the years 182 &

“The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine: 1863-04-18, Page 5” Masonic Periodicals Online, Library and Museum of Freemasonry, 21 June 2025, django:8000/periodicals/mmr/issues/mmr_18041863/page/5/.
  • List
  • Grid
Title Category Page
CLASSICAL THEOLOGY.—LXVI. Article 1
MOTHER KILWINNING. Article 2
MASONIC NOTES AND QUERIES. Article 3
BRITISH SCULPTURE.—A VISIT TO THE STUDIOS. Article 7
FURNITURE. Article 9
STRUCTURES IN THE SEA. Article 10
THE THAMES EMBANKMENT. Article 12
AN INCIDENT OF THE AMERICAN WAR. Article 12
THE MASONIC MIRROR. Article 13
METROPOLITAN. Article 13
PROVINCIAL. Article 13
ROYAL ARCH. Article 15
ANCIENT AND ACCEPTED RITE. Article 15
Obituary. Article 15
PUBLIC AMUSEMENTS Article 16
THE WEEK. Article 17
TO CORRESPONDENTS. Article 20
Page 1

Page 1

1 Article
Page 2

Page 2

2 Articles
Page 3

Page 3

2 Articles
Page 4

Page 4

1 Article
Page 5

Page 5

1 Article
Page 6

Page 6

1 Article
Page 7

Page 7

2 Articles
Page 8

Page 8

1 Article
Page 9

Page 9

3 Articles
Page 10

Page 10

3 Articles
Page 11

Page 11

1 Article
Page 12

Page 12

4 Articles
Page 13

Page 13

3 Articles
Page 14

Page 14

1 Article
Page 15

Page 15

5 Articles
Page 16

Page 16

2 Articles
Page 17

Page 17

3 Articles
Page 18

Page 18

1 Article
Page 19

Page 19

1 Article
Page 20

Page 20

3 Articles
Page 5

Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.

Masonic Notes And Queries.

The artful manner in which this paragraph is worded , is well calculated to mislead the general reader ; for it is so put , as to lead to the belief that the Executive Chiefs of the Langue of Italy , and the Grand Master ad interim , are one and the same ! But the Grand Master ceases immediately on his election or nomination to belong to any Language ; and we have already been informed that the Grand Masterad interimhas been elected " to

pre-, , serve the vitality of the Sovereign Institute ; " therefore , he must be the Head of the Order , and not the Executive Chief of the Language of Italy in particular . Such then being the case , lohy are the official cammunications , and , above all , why is tlw reply—for we are told that the communications were acknowledged by a letter dated Aug . 17 , 1843—passed over so quietlyand not given ? It would

, have been better if the communications and the reply had been included in the Syn . Sketch ; for the suppression of a despatch from the reigning Chief , elected to preserve the vitality of the Sovereign Institute , argues very unfavourably . " With the seizure of Malta , the Order lost its political power ; but neither its conventional organisation , " & c . —P . 26 .

Conventional , or rather conventual organisation ( for that is what the author evidently means ) , can only have reference to the convent ; and as the term " convent" is applied in the Order exclusively to the residence of the Grand Master , or his Lieutenant and the S . Council , & c , we have here conclusive evidence from the Syn . Sketch that the conventual organisation , i . e . supreme authority

of the Order , had not been lost . ' And with this admission , ib is impossible to understand why no mention is made of tho supreme authority of the Order in the transactions of 1827—1831 . Then we have the corporation again : — " An abeyance of the Corporation in England , for upwards of two-and-a-half centuries , did not prevent the two last monarchs of the House of Guelf from recognising the Order and wearing its Cross . "—P . 28 .

They recognised the Order equally as the other sovereigns of Europe have done , and still do . But "the two last monarchs of the House of Guelf" never recognised the " English Language . " And an abeyance of a corporation is impossible . We are now coming to remarkable statements : — - " Since the date of the last General Chapter under a Grand Master , eighty years have elapsed ; during which no Conventual Council , representing the eight langues has existed . " — P . 39 .

The Syn . Sketch was printed m 18 o 7 . Consequently , the above statement takes us back to 1777—a period when there actually were eight Languages in existence ; for the Anglo-Bavarian Langue had been created , and it was nob until 1789 that the three French Languages ceased to exist . Convenbual Council is only another term for the ordinary councils ; and on referring to the statutes , I find that either the Conventual Bailifts , or their Lieutenants ,

must be present at the ordinary council . But we have just learned that the conventual organisation of the Order had been preserved ; therefore , of course , the usual councils were held . It is needless to observe , that General Chapters and Conventval Councils are quite of a different character from each other . Yet the Syn Sketch makes them appear to be one and the same . Be Novo : —

" Since the date of the last General Chapter under a Grand Master , eighty years have elapsed ; during which time no Conventual Council , representing the eight Langues , lias existed . Hut during this interregnum in the government of the Order , its relation with the Christian Powers of Europe have been continually upheld . " —P . 29 . We have just learned that the conventual , organisation of the Order had been preserved , and we are now told that an interregnum in the government of the Order has existed for eighty years , i . e . from 1777 ; so that the Order was at Malta for twenty-one years without a government IJ

But the " continually upholding of relations with the Christian Powers , " only proves that there was no interregnum in the government of the Order ; for otherwise by whom , or by what supreme authority , could these relations have been kept up ?

"In 1815 , its ambassadors ( who at foreign courts took the place of all those not deputed by kings ) were : at London , the Commander Thuisy ; at Paris , the Bailli Ferretti ; at . Vienna , the Grand Prior Colloredo ; at Rome , the Bailli Bonaccorsi ; in Portugal , the Bailli Carvaslho ; at Madrid , the Commander Paez ; and at St . Petersburgh , ithe Duke of Serra Capriola . " —P . 29 .

If the names are correctly given , these ambassadors must all have been accredited by the Lieutenant of the Mastership—the reigning Chief elected " to preserve the vitality of the Sovereign Institute , " for I cannot make out the existence of any other authority of the Order possessing the power to exercise the prerogative of accrediting or whose would be received .

envoys , envoys " In 1843 , the ministers of the sovereign and illustrious Order were , in Austria , the Bailli-general , Count Khevenhuller ; at Parma , Count S . A itale ; in Modena , the Marquis Caradini , " & c ., & c—P . 29 . ' These ministers also must have been accredited by the Lieutenant of the Mafcership . We are then informed who the principal officers of the

Order in France have been during the same period : there was a "Grand Secretary , " and another official named the "Mandataire General "—the Baron Nottred de St . Luys . Who was the Baron , and what were his duties as Mandataire ? I seek information because , in 1858 , an individual of this name I believe figured in a process at law before the Correctional Police in . Paris ,

"foa trafficking in titles and decorations . " The admissions into the Order during the present century include the names of King George IV . and King William IV . ; Charles X of France ; the King of the Belgians ; the King of Naples ; the King of Sardinia ; the Archduke Frederic ; H . R . H . Prince-Albert , " & c ., & c—P . 30 . It is quite certain that none of tbe Kings or Princes here named would have compromised themselves by being received into tho Order , unless they were fully satisfied that their reception was at the hands of an authority , lecially constituted , and the legal representative of

the supreme authority or government of the Order . If these names are correctly given , it will be easy to ascertain when and by whom these royal personages were admitted ; and this will be conclusive evidence as to who is the recognised and legitimate Head of the Order , if there can be any doubt remaining . "From the period of the General Chapter of the French , Spanishand Portuguese Languages under Prince Camille de

, Rohan , when the plenary Capitulary Commission was constituted , which revived the language of England , the executive Sovereignty of the Order may be said to have been exercised , exclusively by the Six Langues of Auvergne , Provence , France , Aragon , England , and Castile . "—P . 30 . Let ns dissect this paragraph , which , certainly is cunningly worded .

"From the period of the General Chapter of the French , Spanish , and Portuguese langues , under Prince Camille de Rohan . " The Commission of Paris was formed in 1814 , and De Rohan died in 1816 ; and tbe official Reclamations of the Commission make no mention of the Spanish and Portuguese Knihts

g . "From the period , i . e . 1814 .... the executive Sovereignty of the Order may be said to have been exercised exclusively by the Six Langues of Auvergne , Provence , Aragon , England , and Castile . " tt " may be said to have been exercised exclusively , " but ivas it exercised exclusively ? If it was , _ why were "the proceedings of this Commission sanctioned , and

afterwards confirmed by the Lieutenant of the Magistery and the Sacred Council seated at Catania ? " ( See Syn . Sketch , p . 23 . ) The one statement contradicts the other . At p . 24 , we are informed , that " between the years 182 &

  • Prev page
  • 1
  • 4
  • You're on page5
  • 6
  • 20
  • Next page
  • Accredited Museum Designated Outstanding Collection
  • LIBRARY AND MUSEUM CHARITABLE TRUST OF THE UNITED GRAND LODGE OF ENGLAND REGISTERED CHARITY NUMBER 1058497 / ALL RIGHTS RESERVED © 2025

  • Accessibility statement

  • Designed, developed, and maintained by King's Digital Lab

We use cookies to track usage and preferences.

Privacy & cookie policy