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  • The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine
  • May 18, 1867
  • Page 8
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The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine, May 18, 1867: Page 8

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    Article MASONIC NOTES AND QUERIES. ← Page 3 of 3
    Article CORRESPONDENCE. Page 1 of 1
    Article CORRESPONDENCE. Page 1 of 1
Page 8

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Masonic Notes And Queries.

some petty jealousy of one who has clone more than any other six Masons put together , in either Jersey or Guernsey , for the general good of the Craft . Iu conclusion , I beg to state that the Grand Lodge of England resolved some time since , " That it is lite undoubted riht of every Masonwho is well known

g , or properly vouched for , to visit any lodge during the time it is opened for general Masonic business . '' To my mind this clearly establishes the view taken by my clear friend and Brother , Dr . Hopkins . — "W . J . HUGHAN .

Correspondence.

CORRESPONDENCE .

The Editor is not responsible for the opinions expressed by Correspondents . INITIATION OF CANDIDATES BY WARDENS . TO / TEE EDITOH OF THE 3 . _ U . 1 _ : __ A _ 0 _ . S' _ IAC . AZI _ ,-E A _ fD -JASO-. IC jUInnoE . DEAR SIR AND BROTHER , —In your report of the "

meeting of the Rutland Lodge ( No . 1 , 130 ) , at Melton Mowbray , Leicestershire , the J . W . is announced to have given the first degree . Is he a Past Master , and , if not , has he any authority to confer a degree which , I had been led to think , was the especial dut y and privilege of a Master ?

Tours fraternally , A KNIGHT . [ We have no desire to re-open the much-vexed question " Can a Warden initiate ? " The practice is not forbidden by the " Book of Constitutions , '' but still it is highly objectionable , and ought only to be

resorted to under very special circumstances , and by the courtesy of the W . M ., who either himself , or a P . M ., must occupy the chair , and is responsible for the regularity of the proceedings . Where no special circumstances are shown , it almost bears ' prima facie evidence upon it that the W . M . is incompetent to perform the duties . —En . P . M . ]

VISITORS TO LODGES . TO THE EDITOK OE THE IKEEJTASOSS' MAGAZINE AJTD MASONIC _ nBEO _ l . DEAR SIR AND BROTHER . —Fully appreciating , as I _ do , the Masonic knowledge and skill of Bro . A . 0 . Haye , which , I freely confess , are far beyond my own , therefore believing his opinion worthy of all

consideration , I regret that we differ on an important matter of Masonic , right . I brought the matter prominently forward , in the hope of having it settled , because I found no direct provision in the " Book of Constitutions , ! ' though , as already observed , the right to visit other lodges is there implied . It appears

that there are two simple questions to decide : First , can a visitor demand admission to any lodge ? Secondly , is there any lawful limitation by which there may be exclusion during part of the proceedings , and if so , ivhich part ? On the first question , though I cannot quote a definite authorit y , I have an

impression that appeals to Grand Lodge in eases of exclusion have been decided in favour of the appellant . On the second question , as before stated , I think no provision exists except that of gentlemanly propriety , which would suggest withdrawal , or at least , compliance with a request to withdraw , under certain circumstances . In this respect I did not in the par-

Correspondence.

ticnlar case commit myself . Tet I contend that visitors ought to be admitted during the reading or the minutes , as well as during the administration of Masonic rites , but may be called upon to retire during discussions upon them , ancl on matters of purely internal economy . Admitting that " each lodge is rs

family in itself , " I remark that it is also part of the province , under a Grand Lodge of the country , and as such all its acts , except those which concern only its internal arrangements , ought to be open to those under the same constitution . In the case of the Loyalty Lodge , which gave rise to this discussion ,

the question for decision was , whether the lodge should resist the authority of the Provincial Grand Lodge , and it was openly stated by P . M . ' s , that in case of determination to do so , and any penal action being taken thereon , allegiance to the Grand Lodge of England would be thrown off , and a , warrant

heobtained from a foreign Grand Lodge . The result did concern all in the province , and the threatened defection interested all under the same constitution , I still consider , therefore , that the . result of the discussion , as contained in the minutes , though not the discussion itself , should be open to all who choose to

attend . I agree with Bro . Haye , that a " lodge hasan unquestionable right to say who shall not be their associates , '' so for as regards its discussions and itssocial meetings after the closing of the lodge , but not I think as to the records of its proceedings and the administration of its rites . I am quite sure that the admission of Masons from other lodges may be a great safeguard against unconstitutional acts , such as I have sometimes witnessed , and therefore I deem it

very desirable , as well as legal . Should these letters meet tbe eye of the Grand Registrar , I hope he will kindly favour us with his opinion , which we must all respect . If it prove that I am wrong , I imagine that many with myself will feel a delicacy in intruding ona lodge to whicli we do not belong . As a rule I visit all lodges in a district where I may happen to bebut

, iu case of a decision that I cannot claim it as a ri ght , I shall have to consider the propriety of g iving it up in future . In some instances this may cause much inconvenience . I have within the last few montha repeatedly visited lodges when degrees were to be conferred , at which not more than four or five

members were present , and but for help thus obtained thework would not have been done . Bro . Haye has quoted the practice in America asopposed to my view . He will excuse me if I say that under some foreign constitutions there are manyarrangements which could not he admitted in

England , and that on a question of this kind we mustlook to the spirit and practice of our own constitutions , not of those abroad . It seems that Bros . Haye and Leigh are opposed ; to Bro . Hughan and myself , but all others whom I have privately consulted have fully endorsed my views ..

By the concessions of the former brethren , thequestion is now restricted to the presence of visitorsduring the reading of the minutes , the main point fop which I contended at first , and therefore it may be well in what may still have to be said , to limit the discussion to that subject , on which , however , I am not aware that I can add anything more . ' Tours fraternally , Kidderminster , May 13 th . H . H „

“The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine: 1867-05-18, Page 8” Masonic Periodicals Online, Library and Museum of Freemasonry, 21 June 2025, django:8000/periodicals/mmr/issues/mmr_18051867/page/8/.
  • List
  • Grid
Title Category Page
FREEMASONRY CONSIDERED. Article 1
HISTORY OF FREEMASONRY IN CORNWALL. Article 2
CHESHIRE EDUCATIONAL MASONIC INSTITUTION. Article 4
THE NEMESIS: A TALE OF THE DAYS OF TRAJAN. Article 5
MASONIC NOTES AND QUERIES. Article 6
CORRESPONDENCE. Article 8
THE LODGE OF CHARITY (No. 223). Article 9
A BUD OF PROMISE. Article 9
"PALMAM QUI MERUIT FERAT." Article 9
METROPOLITAN. Article 10
PROVINCIAL. Article 11
ROYAL ARCH. Article 11
MARK MASONRY. Article 12
HIGH KHIGHTS TEMPLAR. Article 13
KNIGHTS TEMPLAR. Article 13
RED CROSS KNIGHTS AND K.H.S. Article 16
CHANNEL ISLANDS. Article 16
REVIEWS. Article 16
NOTES ON LITERATURE, SCIENCE, MUSIC, DRAMA, AND THE FINE ARTS. Article 17
Poetry. Article 17
TRAIN UP A CHILD IN THE WAY HE SHOULD GO. Article 17
MEETINGS OF THE SCIENTIFIC AND LEARNED SOCIETIES FOR THE WEEK ENDING MAT Article 17
THE WEEK. Article 17
TO CORRESPONDENTS. Article 20
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Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.

Masonic Notes And Queries.

some petty jealousy of one who has clone more than any other six Masons put together , in either Jersey or Guernsey , for the general good of the Craft . Iu conclusion , I beg to state that the Grand Lodge of England resolved some time since , " That it is lite undoubted riht of every Masonwho is well known

g , or properly vouched for , to visit any lodge during the time it is opened for general Masonic business . '' To my mind this clearly establishes the view taken by my clear friend and Brother , Dr . Hopkins . — "W . J . HUGHAN .

Correspondence.

CORRESPONDENCE .

The Editor is not responsible for the opinions expressed by Correspondents . INITIATION OF CANDIDATES BY WARDENS . TO / TEE EDITOH OF THE 3 . _ U . 1 _ : __ A _ 0 _ . S' _ IAC . AZI _ ,-E A _ fD -JASO-. IC jUInnoE . DEAR SIR AND BROTHER , —In your report of the "

meeting of the Rutland Lodge ( No . 1 , 130 ) , at Melton Mowbray , Leicestershire , the J . W . is announced to have given the first degree . Is he a Past Master , and , if not , has he any authority to confer a degree which , I had been led to think , was the especial dut y and privilege of a Master ?

Tours fraternally , A KNIGHT . [ We have no desire to re-open the much-vexed question " Can a Warden initiate ? " The practice is not forbidden by the " Book of Constitutions , '' but still it is highly objectionable , and ought only to be

resorted to under very special circumstances , and by the courtesy of the W . M ., who either himself , or a P . M ., must occupy the chair , and is responsible for the regularity of the proceedings . Where no special circumstances are shown , it almost bears ' prima facie evidence upon it that the W . M . is incompetent to perform the duties . —En . P . M . ]

VISITORS TO LODGES . TO THE EDITOK OE THE IKEEJTASOSS' MAGAZINE AJTD MASONIC _ nBEO _ l . DEAR SIR AND BROTHER . —Fully appreciating , as I _ do , the Masonic knowledge and skill of Bro . A . 0 . Haye , which , I freely confess , are far beyond my own , therefore believing his opinion worthy of all

consideration , I regret that we differ on an important matter of Masonic , right . I brought the matter prominently forward , in the hope of having it settled , because I found no direct provision in the " Book of Constitutions , ! ' though , as already observed , the right to visit other lodges is there implied . It appears

that there are two simple questions to decide : First , can a visitor demand admission to any lodge ? Secondly , is there any lawful limitation by which there may be exclusion during part of the proceedings , and if so , ivhich part ? On the first question , though I cannot quote a definite authorit y , I have an

impression that appeals to Grand Lodge in eases of exclusion have been decided in favour of the appellant . On the second question , as before stated , I think no provision exists except that of gentlemanly propriety , which would suggest withdrawal , or at least , compliance with a request to withdraw , under certain circumstances . In this respect I did not in the par-

Correspondence.

ticnlar case commit myself . Tet I contend that visitors ought to be admitted during the reading or the minutes , as well as during the administration of Masonic rites , but may be called upon to retire during discussions upon them , ancl on matters of purely internal economy . Admitting that " each lodge is rs

family in itself , " I remark that it is also part of the province , under a Grand Lodge of the country , and as such all its acts , except those which concern only its internal arrangements , ought to be open to those under the same constitution . In the case of the Loyalty Lodge , which gave rise to this discussion ,

the question for decision was , whether the lodge should resist the authority of the Provincial Grand Lodge , and it was openly stated by P . M . ' s , that in case of determination to do so , and any penal action being taken thereon , allegiance to the Grand Lodge of England would be thrown off , and a , warrant

heobtained from a foreign Grand Lodge . The result did concern all in the province , and the threatened defection interested all under the same constitution , I still consider , therefore , that the . result of the discussion , as contained in the minutes , though not the discussion itself , should be open to all who choose to

attend . I agree with Bro . Haye , that a " lodge hasan unquestionable right to say who shall not be their associates , '' so for as regards its discussions and itssocial meetings after the closing of the lodge , but not I think as to the records of its proceedings and the administration of its rites . I am quite sure that the admission of Masons from other lodges may be a great safeguard against unconstitutional acts , such as I have sometimes witnessed , and therefore I deem it

very desirable , as well as legal . Should these letters meet tbe eye of the Grand Registrar , I hope he will kindly favour us with his opinion , which we must all respect . If it prove that I am wrong , I imagine that many with myself will feel a delicacy in intruding ona lodge to whicli we do not belong . As a rule I visit all lodges in a district where I may happen to bebut

, iu case of a decision that I cannot claim it as a ri ght , I shall have to consider the propriety of g iving it up in future . In some instances this may cause much inconvenience . I have within the last few montha repeatedly visited lodges when degrees were to be conferred , at which not more than four or five

members were present , and but for help thus obtained thework would not have been done . Bro . Haye has quoted the practice in America asopposed to my view . He will excuse me if I say that under some foreign constitutions there are manyarrangements which could not he admitted in

England , and that on a question of this kind we mustlook to the spirit and practice of our own constitutions , not of those abroad . It seems that Bros . Haye and Leigh are opposed ; to Bro . Hughan and myself , but all others whom I have privately consulted have fully endorsed my views ..

By the concessions of the former brethren , thequestion is now restricted to the presence of visitorsduring the reading of the minutes , the main point fop which I contended at first , and therefore it may be well in what may still have to be said , to limit the discussion to that subject , on which , however , I am not aware that I can add anything more . ' Tours fraternally , Kidderminster , May 13 th . H . H „

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