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  • Aug. 21, 1869
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  • FREEMASONRY ABOUT ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY-TWO TEARS OLD.
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The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine, Aug. 21, 1869: Page 6

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    Article MASONIC NOTES AND QUERIES. ← Page 3 of 3
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Masonic Notes And Queries.

apart from the philosophic desire to profit by a perfect number , as in 5 and 7 ; there was also consciously or unconsciously , an endeavour to work out a system of mnemoteehny or artificial memory . Those who commit these matters to heart know how the memory is assisted by the scheme of having to supply the requisite number of conditions or reasons or answers .

As to violating the order of proceeding in naming the O . G . before his superiors , this is surely a rhetorical or logical straining , for the mentiou of his office in no wise affects his precedency or that of the others . It may just as well be objected to that the O . G . is asked about before the W . M ., and that the scale in this instance is from the junior upwards , or , more strictly , from the outside to the inside . —H . C .

" H . C . " " A MASONIC PHENOMENON . " Bro . H . C . has certainly informed us of a very curious instance of a brother having been initiated , passed ; , and raised in three different quarters of the globe and in three languages . It is but another illustration of the universality and unity of Free ¦ masonry . I remember once visiting a lodge at

Redruth , Cornwall , when there were four initiations at once , consisting of two Lewises and Twins , making a wonderful quartette ancl another Masonic phenomenon . —W . J . HUGHAN .

JOINING BRETHREN AND INITIATIONS . Your esteemed correspondent , Bro . "H . Ii . " is quite correct in stating he does not find in the Bock of Constitutions any authority for my saying that " no person can be initiated on the same clay that a new lodge is opened and consecrated . " Sly authority for saying so , wasnot derived from the Book of Constitutions , but from

a letter -written by the present Grand Secratary to a W . M . designate of a new lodge , and of which letter the W . M . designate allowed me to take a copy . The portion of it referring to the point in question is as follows : — " In consequence of irregularities that have in some cases taken place , I think it well to remind you that no person can be initiated when a new lodge is opened ,

neither can any joining members be admitted at such meeting , and further that no lodge can be held by the petitioners until the lodge has been duly consecrated and the Master Designate installed . " Bro . "H . II . " says " he is quite sure that in point of fact admissions of new members of the Order and the performance of the ceremonies therewithhave in cases taken lace on

, many p the day of tho opening of a new lodge . " This no doubt may be so , and possibly may constitute some of "the irregularities" mentioned in the extract from the Grand Secretary ' s letter . Until the by-laws are adopted in open lodgo , which I believe is never done at the consecration ceremony , I must confess I do not see how it would be prudent to initiate any persons , as there - would be b

no y-laws in existence to point out the duties they owed to the lodge , and which should , strictly speaking , be signed on the evening of initiation , if the brother announces his intention of becoming a subscribing member of the lodge , as is invariably the case . For almost similar reasons I do not see bow it would ever be safe to propose any persons for initiation or brethren for joining at the consecration ceremony , unless there are some by-laws in existence to regulate the same . —> J < B > J <

IK Liverpool the medical men are about to try an experiment ' At a meeting of the members of the piofessimi , held on Tuesday , it was resolved that the local sick benefit societies should he requested to increase the rate of payment to the medical officers from 3 s . to 'Is . yearly for each society member .

Freemasonry About One Hundred And Fifty-Two Tears Old.

FREEMASONRY ABOUT ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY-TWO TEARS OLD .

CORRESPONDENCE .

The Editor is not responsible for ihe opinions expressed bij Correspondents

TO TUn EDITOR OP TZtH FREEMASON'S' MAGAZINE ANT ) JtASOWIC MrEEOE . Dear Sir and Brother , —I shall take it kind if you will find space in your columns for the enclosed letter ,, which I sent to the North British Dail y Mail here , in answer to some correspondence which had been going on relative to the antiquity of Freemasonry .

By doing so , I think that Bros . R . Sanderson ( page 109 ) and Saxelby ( page 128 ) will find their notes answered ; and as the opinions of Bros . Hughan and D . M . Lyon are included , it will be all the more valuable . Operative Masonry aud an Operative Mason ' s-

Society , it must always be remembered , is quite a different thing from Speculative Masonry with its doctrines and rituals . The Reformation , I consider ,, helped to clear the way for the introduction of thelatter . Tours fraternally , W . P . BUCHAN .

" To the Editor of the Mrth British Dail y Mail .. " Sir , —In your issue of 30 th ult ., I made the assertion that speculative Masonry , or Freemasonry , ' originated and sprang up since the Reformation , ' and , in fact , was only about ' 152 years old . ' " This brought out an opponent hailing from

Greenock , who , under the signature of 'IS , , ' in issue of 2 nd inst ., said that ' speculative and operative-Freemasonry were both practised in Scotland at thetime when our most ancient buildings were erected , ' and this he said was ' easily proved ' ! On 4 th inst . I replied , desiring him to lead some of his proof . On

6 th inst . ' E . ' answered by delining to lead his asserted ' proof on the transparent plea of want of time , telling us , however , that he lias ' sufficient evidence to convince himself of its existence in / Scotland in 1145 . " ' He also , while leaving the field , states that it is my place to dis-prove , not his to prove , the assumed

existence of Freemasonry previous either to the Reformation or the 18 th century A . D . Now . I shall leave the intelligent , unbiassed , and truth-loving portion of your readers to judge the meaning of this . A champion comes forward boldly asserting that hecan ' easily prove ' an affirmative , yet , when asked

todo so , he retreats , manfully leaving the antagonist hefeared to grapple with to ] : > rove a negative . "The action of 'R . ' in this matter is an exact copy of the course pursued by the valiant Harapha , in Milton ' s ' Samson Agonistes , ' only our Greenock herowill not get off quite so scatheless as his Philisfcian

predecessor , simply because that , notwithstanding all his careful reticence , he has made two slips by which , just catching the extreme points of his mantle ,. I manage to drag him to me . Tea , 'E , '—

"' Thou oft shall wish thyself at Guth to boast Again in safety what tt . ou woulilst have done . ' " The slips I refer to are these , viz ..- In his first letter he tells us his ' Mother Lodge ' ¦ is the ' Ancient Stirling , ' and in his second letter he mentions the date ' 1145 . ' Therefore , as by adding two aud two together we get four , so by putting these two statements together , we in all likelihood , discover that the

“The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine: 1869-08-21, Page 6” Masonic Periodicals Online, Library and Museum of Freemasonry, 22 June 2025, django:8000/periodicals/mmr/issues/mmr_21081869/page/6/.
  • List
  • Grid
Title Category Page
Untitled Article 1
THE INAUGURATION FESTIVAL JEWEL. Article 1
THE PALESTINE EXPLORATION FUND. Article 1
MASONIC NOTES AND QUERIES. Article 4
FREEMASONRY ABOUT ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY-TWO TEARS OLD. Article 6
BIBLES, &c., AND DECAPITATION OF BRO. MELVILLE (p. 129.) Article 8
REVISION OF THE RITUALS. Article 9
NEW LODGES AND NEW MEMBERS. Article 9
Untitled Article 10
MASONIC MEMS Article 10
METROPOLITAN. Article 11
PROVINCIAL. Article 11
MARK MASONRY. Article 13
LAYING THE FOUNDATION STONE OF THE SHERIFF COURT-HOUSE AND NEW HALL AT FORFAR. Article 14
MASONIC PRESENTATION AT THE WORCESTER CATHEDRAL. Article 16
LAYING THE CORNER STONE OF THE MASONIC HALL, CARLETON, NEW BRUNSWICK. Article 17
LITERATURE, SCIENCE, MUSIC, DRAMA, AND THE FINE ARTS. Article 19
Poetry. Article 20
LIST OF LODGE, &c., MEETINGS FOR WEEK ENDING 28TH AUGUST, 1869. Article 20
TO CORESPONDENTS. Article 20
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Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.

Masonic Notes And Queries.

apart from the philosophic desire to profit by a perfect number , as in 5 and 7 ; there was also consciously or unconsciously , an endeavour to work out a system of mnemoteehny or artificial memory . Those who commit these matters to heart know how the memory is assisted by the scheme of having to supply the requisite number of conditions or reasons or answers .

As to violating the order of proceeding in naming the O . G . before his superiors , this is surely a rhetorical or logical straining , for the mentiou of his office in no wise affects his precedency or that of the others . It may just as well be objected to that the O . G . is asked about before the W . M ., and that the scale in this instance is from the junior upwards , or , more strictly , from the outside to the inside . —H . C .

" H . C . " " A MASONIC PHENOMENON . " Bro . H . C . has certainly informed us of a very curious instance of a brother having been initiated , passed ; , and raised in three different quarters of the globe and in three languages . It is but another illustration of the universality and unity of Free ¦ masonry . I remember once visiting a lodge at

Redruth , Cornwall , when there were four initiations at once , consisting of two Lewises and Twins , making a wonderful quartette ancl another Masonic phenomenon . —W . J . HUGHAN .

JOINING BRETHREN AND INITIATIONS . Your esteemed correspondent , Bro . "H . Ii . " is quite correct in stating he does not find in the Bock of Constitutions any authority for my saying that " no person can be initiated on the same clay that a new lodge is opened and consecrated . " Sly authority for saying so , wasnot derived from the Book of Constitutions , but from

a letter -written by the present Grand Secratary to a W . M . designate of a new lodge , and of which letter the W . M . designate allowed me to take a copy . The portion of it referring to the point in question is as follows : — " In consequence of irregularities that have in some cases taken place , I think it well to remind you that no person can be initiated when a new lodge is opened ,

neither can any joining members be admitted at such meeting , and further that no lodge can be held by the petitioners until the lodge has been duly consecrated and the Master Designate installed . " Bro . "H . II . " says " he is quite sure that in point of fact admissions of new members of the Order and the performance of the ceremonies therewithhave in cases taken lace on

, many p the day of tho opening of a new lodge . " This no doubt may be so , and possibly may constitute some of "the irregularities" mentioned in the extract from the Grand Secretary ' s letter . Until the by-laws are adopted in open lodgo , which I believe is never done at the consecration ceremony , I must confess I do not see how it would be prudent to initiate any persons , as there - would be b

no y-laws in existence to point out the duties they owed to the lodge , and which should , strictly speaking , be signed on the evening of initiation , if the brother announces his intention of becoming a subscribing member of the lodge , as is invariably the case . For almost similar reasons I do not see bow it would ever be safe to propose any persons for initiation or brethren for joining at the consecration ceremony , unless there are some by-laws in existence to regulate the same . —> J < B > J <

IK Liverpool the medical men are about to try an experiment ' At a meeting of the members of the piofessimi , held on Tuesday , it was resolved that the local sick benefit societies should he requested to increase the rate of payment to the medical officers from 3 s . to 'Is . yearly for each society member .

Freemasonry About One Hundred And Fifty-Two Tears Old.

FREEMASONRY ABOUT ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY-TWO TEARS OLD .

CORRESPONDENCE .

The Editor is not responsible for ihe opinions expressed bij Correspondents

TO TUn EDITOR OP TZtH FREEMASON'S' MAGAZINE ANT ) JtASOWIC MrEEOE . Dear Sir and Brother , —I shall take it kind if you will find space in your columns for the enclosed letter ,, which I sent to the North British Dail y Mail here , in answer to some correspondence which had been going on relative to the antiquity of Freemasonry .

By doing so , I think that Bros . R . Sanderson ( page 109 ) and Saxelby ( page 128 ) will find their notes answered ; and as the opinions of Bros . Hughan and D . M . Lyon are included , it will be all the more valuable . Operative Masonry aud an Operative Mason ' s-

Society , it must always be remembered , is quite a different thing from Speculative Masonry with its doctrines and rituals . The Reformation , I consider ,, helped to clear the way for the introduction of thelatter . Tours fraternally , W . P . BUCHAN .

" To the Editor of the Mrth British Dail y Mail .. " Sir , —In your issue of 30 th ult ., I made the assertion that speculative Masonry , or Freemasonry , ' originated and sprang up since the Reformation , ' and , in fact , was only about ' 152 years old . ' " This brought out an opponent hailing from

Greenock , who , under the signature of 'IS , , ' in issue of 2 nd inst ., said that ' speculative and operative-Freemasonry were both practised in Scotland at thetime when our most ancient buildings were erected , ' and this he said was ' easily proved ' ! On 4 th inst . I replied , desiring him to lead some of his proof . On

6 th inst . ' E . ' answered by delining to lead his asserted ' proof on the transparent plea of want of time , telling us , however , that he lias ' sufficient evidence to convince himself of its existence in / Scotland in 1145 . " ' He also , while leaving the field , states that it is my place to dis-prove , not his to prove , the assumed

existence of Freemasonry previous either to the Reformation or the 18 th century A . D . Now . I shall leave the intelligent , unbiassed , and truth-loving portion of your readers to judge the meaning of this . A champion comes forward boldly asserting that hecan ' easily prove ' an affirmative , yet , when asked

todo so , he retreats , manfully leaving the antagonist hefeared to grapple with to ] : > rove a negative . "The action of 'R . ' in this matter is an exact copy of the course pursued by the valiant Harapha , in Milton ' s ' Samson Agonistes , ' only our Greenock herowill not get off quite so scatheless as his Philisfcian

predecessor , simply because that , notwithstanding all his careful reticence , he has made two slips by which , just catching the extreme points of his mantle ,. I manage to drag him to me . Tea , 'E , '—

"' Thou oft shall wish thyself at Guth to boast Again in safety what tt . ou woulilst have done . ' " The slips I refer to are these , viz ..- In his first letter he tells us his ' Mother Lodge ' ¦ is the ' Ancient Stirling , ' and in his second letter he mentions the date ' 1145 . ' Therefore , as by adding two aud two together we get four , so by putting these two statements together , we in all likelihood , discover that the

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