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  • Nov. 21, 1863
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The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine, Nov. 21, 1863: Page 10

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Can A Warden Initiate ? &C.

CAN A WARDEN INITIATE ? & c .

TO THE EDITOR OS TEE FKEEJTASOIfS' JTAGAZISE AWD MASONIC MIEEOE . DEAR SIR AND BROTHER , —No doubt you remember the popular story of some limb of the law whose instructions to counsel ran thus : — " No case .- abuse plaintiff ' s attorney "—a course Bro . Blackburn has adopted , in his ! ast letter , covering his retreat .

Tho original question was , " Can a Warden Initiate ?" Bro . Blackburn says "No ; " I say "Yes . " He and I both bring forward those evidences which , we each think , tell for our own respective views ; but if we both write " tyll daye of doome " we cannot settle the matter , for Euclid tells us that two parallel lines continued to infinity can never meet ; and thus Bro . Blackburn and must

myself " agree to differ" until some competent authority shall step in , and , by intersecting our similar courses , give us the chance of again becoming united on a general principle . . We are all more or less apt to rely upon certain authorities of our own choosing for the derivation of words , f cited Johnson . Bro . Blackburn replied by throwing a somewhat °

unknown " Cragg" in my way , and thinkshe has given me cause to stumble . To this I must reply by hurling at him a passage from Old Barclay ' s Shippe offfooles , printed in the 15 th century , which clearly indicates what a Warden was then understood to be ; and as it is likely Bro . Blackburn does not indulge in " foolish " literatureit maybe new to himBarclay "He

, . says , was a wardeyn hatting charges of all wardeinrie under hys maistres priuatie ; " and if Bro . Blackburn can shew me that a Warden , such as the one just cited , is an irresponsible Master on his own account , I am willing to be written down the veriest ass in Christendom .

Bro . Blackburn is somewhat disingenuous in several of his statements , making me say , " in 1813 , two Grand Lodges with identical landmarks , but differently constituted ; " instead of which my words are , — "The regulations of these two systems were as widely different as their respective governments , "—a sentence which I submit cannot corroborate , under any amount of augmentation , diminution , or involution , Bro . Blackburn ' s assertions .

Bro . Blackburn says , "But ' M . C " writes an imaginary case but founded on those of daily occurrence ;" and then adds , parenthetically , ( "How a case can be imaginary which is founded on daily occurrence is as unintelligible to mo as my comparative philology to him . " ) Perhaps so ; but if Bro . Blackburn will reconstruct my sentence , which he has so unmercifully hacked

and dismembered , he will find that I founded an imaginary case on those of daily occurrence , i . e ., I could not say Bro . So-and-so , of such and such a place , did this , or that , but imagined that some one did ( what is done daily throughout the length and breadth of the land ) officiate for the Master in his absence . Fair quotations of a writer ' s words are always admissible as arguments

against him , but garbled extracts only show the weakness of his opponent ' s defence . I am one of the curious , and , with all due deference , Bro . Blackburn is another . He says , " the curious may satisfy themselves by reading the exploits of many of these Lord Wardens in the , good old feudal times . " Where ? that is my puzzle , and nob to know that the Lord Warden was the king ' s officer .

Bro . Blackburn thinks he quietly settles me by stating that " a Warden has nothing to keep , nothing to guard , nor is he a head officer . " Taking his view of a Warden ' s powers to be , that he can only rule the lodge in tho absence of the W . M ., a Warden certainly must ; be supposed to keep one very necessary thing—order . The Junior Warden also has to keep strangers and cowans

from being allowed to enter , and he has to guard the lodge by going out to examine all those unknown brethren who present themselves for admission . That I conceive is something to guard .

Can A Warden Initiate ? &C.

That a Warden is a head officer is equally clear . He has a Deacon under him to run and carry for him , and if one officer is above another in rank , the highest must be head , or chief , over the inferior . As a proof also that a Warden is recognised as a head officer in more places than one , his very title of premier , or seconde , surveillant amongst Freemasons in France

is , literally , first or second overseer , overlooker , or inspector , any of which terms can only apply to a superior over other officers . In German , too , we find a Warden to be an Aufseher , overseer ; Yorsteher , superintendent , or inspector , —literally one who stands before ; and Hauptmann , a headman . In Latin , such an officer is termed custos or

guardianus , which is keeper or guardian , and has been used in the following formulas in numerous old documents : — Portuum custos , Wardenof the Ports ; guardianus quinque portuum , Warden of the Cinque Ports ; sacronem custos , a Churchwarden ; and guardianus prisonas domini Regis de la Fleete , Warden of the Fleet Prison . In each and every case these Wardens are but substitutes or

deputies under higher powers . Bro . Blackburn has evidently been studying Ackerman ' s Oxford , or the Oxford University Calendar , for his elaborate details of the body corporate of some colleges thabhave ras heads of their houses , an officer called a Warden . His earliest date 1274 is fatal to his inference . The

, , term Warden had been in use centuries previous amongst the city and various corporate guilds , and as most of colleges cited ivei'e founded by confraternities of secular monks , the term Warden was adopted for the head officer , and was really equivalent to that of Master , from which I deduce the opinion that it was equally as

competent for a Warden as for a Master to receive or initiate . Where Bro . Blackburn finds " 14 Past Masters" upon the foundation at Merton College I should like to know , because such information would be exceedingly valuable to those interested in the question of " The Antiquity of Masonic Degrees . " Perhaps Bro . Blackburn really means Post Masters , and taking post , in its old signification ,

to be after or passed , he may have , jocularly , turned them into Past Masters . Bro . Blackburn tells us "the ancient charges were extracted from all the known records of lodges in the world , and contain the most important landmarks of the Order , which may not be touched . " Well ! I should say there must have been some tidy folio volumes as the

result , instead of two pages octavo ! and , if the important landmarks arc so sacred , ib would be generous in Bro . Blackburn if he would kindly point out some less holy , so that at least we may write about them , if they are too brittle to be handled . I am neither lugubrious nor an agitator , but call things by their right names . If Bro . Blackburn denies the

effects I imputed to tho patchwork of 1813 , I am willing to meet him word by word , step by step , in every degree , and prove my conclusion . To seek for truth is not to agitate , and the real Freemason will not bolster up an untenable system by a set of legends devoid of authenticity , any more than he will claim for its laws an infallibility not even inferioras some sayto the Word of God

, , itself . Thanking Bro . Blackburn for a good many hearty laughs , and hoping to enjoy many more with him personally , I am , dear Sir ancl Brother , Yours truly and fraternally , ' M . C .

Ar01002

A MAX will daily pass unheeding scenes of beauty which fill another with delight , simply because he lias never cultivated habits of observation and comparison ; and yet it is obvious that the latter enjoys without expense or labour the most abundant and varied source of pleasure from which the former is shut out . Let all , then , and especially the young , cultivate habits of observing , admiring , and loving nature .

“The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine: 1863-11-21, Page 10” Masonic Periodicals Online, Library and Museum of Freemasonry, 2 June 2025, django:8000/periodicals/mmr/issues/mmr_21111863/page/10/.
  • List
  • Grid
Title Category Page
DOUBLE INITIATION. Article 1
MASONIC SAYINGS AND DOINGS. Article 1
PROFESSOR DONALDSON ON THE POSITION OF ARCHITECTURE.* Article 2
MASONIC NOTES AND QUERIES . Article 4
CORRESPONDENCE. Article 7
THE GLAMORGAN LODGE AND RE-INITIATION. Article 8
THE ANTIQUITY OF MASONIC DEGREES. Article 8
ON THE PROCESSIONS OF ANCIENT 'FREEMASONS, &c, IN LONDON. Article 9
CAN A WARDEN INITIATE ? &c. Article 10
Untitled Article 10
THE MASONIC MIRROR. Article 11
METROPOLITAN. Article 11
PROVINCIAL. Article 12
ROYAL ARCH. Article 14
IRELAND. Article 14
COLONIAL. Article 14
AUSTRALIA. Article 15
PUBLIC AMUSEMENTS. Article 16
Poetry. Article 18
THE WEEK. Article 18
TO CORRESPONDENTS. Article 20
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Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.

Can A Warden Initiate ? &C.

CAN A WARDEN INITIATE ? & c .

TO THE EDITOR OS TEE FKEEJTASOIfS' JTAGAZISE AWD MASONIC MIEEOE . DEAR SIR AND BROTHER , —No doubt you remember the popular story of some limb of the law whose instructions to counsel ran thus : — " No case .- abuse plaintiff ' s attorney "—a course Bro . Blackburn has adopted , in his ! ast letter , covering his retreat .

Tho original question was , " Can a Warden Initiate ?" Bro . Blackburn says "No ; " I say "Yes . " He and I both bring forward those evidences which , we each think , tell for our own respective views ; but if we both write " tyll daye of doome " we cannot settle the matter , for Euclid tells us that two parallel lines continued to infinity can never meet ; and thus Bro . Blackburn and must

myself " agree to differ" until some competent authority shall step in , and , by intersecting our similar courses , give us the chance of again becoming united on a general principle . . We are all more or less apt to rely upon certain authorities of our own choosing for the derivation of words , f cited Johnson . Bro . Blackburn replied by throwing a somewhat °

unknown " Cragg" in my way , and thinkshe has given me cause to stumble . To this I must reply by hurling at him a passage from Old Barclay ' s Shippe offfooles , printed in the 15 th century , which clearly indicates what a Warden was then understood to be ; and as it is likely Bro . Blackburn does not indulge in " foolish " literatureit maybe new to himBarclay "He

, . says , was a wardeyn hatting charges of all wardeinrie under hys maistres priuatie ; " and if Bro . Blackburn can shew me that a Warden , such as the one just cited , is an irresponsible Master on his own account , I am willing to be written down the veriest ass in Christendom .

Bro . Blackburn is somewhat disingenuous in several of his statements , making me say , " in 1813 , two Grand Lodges with identical landmarks , but differently constituted ; " instead of which my words are , — "The regulations of these two systems were as widely different as their respective governments , "—a sentence which I submit cannot corroborate , under any amount of augmentation , diminution , or involution , Bro . Blackburn ' s assertions .

Bro . Blackburn says , "But ' M . C " writes an imaginary case but founded on those of daily occurrence ;" and then adds , parenthetically , ( "How a case can be imaginary which is founded on daily occurrence is as unintelligible to mo as my comparative philology to him . " ) Perhaps so ; but if Bro . Blackburn will reconstruct my sentence , which he has so unmercifully hacked

and dismembered , he will find that I founded an imaginary case on those of daily occurrence , i . e ., I could not say Bro . So-and-so , of such and such a place , did this , or that , but imagined that some one did ( what is done daily throughout the length and breadth of the land ) officiate for the Master in his absence . Fair quotations of a writer ' s words are always admissible as arguments

against him , but garbled extracts only show the weakness of his opponent ' s defence . I am one of the curious , and , with all due deference , Bro . Blackburn is another . He says , " the curious may satisfy themselves by reading the exploits of many of these Lord Wardens in the , good old feudal times . " Where ? that is my puzzle , and nob to know that the Lord Warden was the king ' s officer .

Bro . Blackburn thinks he quietly settles me by stating that " a Warden has nothing to keep , nothing to guard , nor is he a head officer . " Taking his view of a Warden ' s powers to be , that he can only rule the lodge in tho absence of the W . M ., a Warden certainly must ; be supposed to keep one very necessary thing—order . The Junior Warden also has to keep strangers and cowans

from being allowed to enter , and he has to guard the lodge by going out to examine all those unknown brethren who present themselves for admission . That I conceive is something to guard .

Can A Warden Initiate ? &C.

That a Warden is a head officer is equally clear . He has a Deacon under him to run and carry for him , and if one officer is above another in rank , the highest must be head , or chief , over the inferior . As a proof also that a Warden is recognised as a head officer in more places than one , his very title of premier , or seconde , surveillant amongst Freemasons in France

is , literally , first or second overseer , overlooker , or inspector , any of which terms can only apply to a superior over other officers . In German , too , we find a Warden to be an Aufseher , overseer ; Yorsteher , superintendent , or inspector , —literally one who stands before ; and Hauptmann , a headman . In Latin , such an officer is termed custos or

guardianus , which is keeper or guardian , and has been used in the following formulas in numerous old documents : — Portuum custos , Wardenof the Ports ; guardianus quinque portuum , Warden of the Cinque Ports ; sacronem custos , a Churchwarden ; and guardianus prisonas domini Regis de la Fleete , Warden of the Fleet Prison . In each and every case these Wardens are but substitutes or

deputies under higher powers . Bro . Blackburn has evidently been studying Ackerman ' s Oxford , or the Oxford University Calendar , for his elaborate details of the body corporate of some colleges thabhave ras heads of their houses , an officer called a Warden . His earliest date 1274 is fatal to his inference . The

, , term Warden had been in use centuries previous amongst the city and various corporate guilds , and as most of colleges cited ivei'e founded by confraternities of secular monks , the term Warden was adopted for the head officer , and was really equivalent to that of Master , from which I deduce the opinion that it was equally as

competent for a Warden as for a Master to receive or initiate . Where Bro . Blackburn finds " 14 Past Masters" upon the foundation at Merton College I should like to know , because such information would be exceedingly valuable to those interested in the question of " The Antiquity of Masonic Degrees . " Perhaps Bro . Blackburn really means Post Masters , and taking post , in its old signification ,

to be after or passed , he may have , jocularly , turned them into Past Masters . Bro . Blackburn tells us "the ancient charges were extracted from all the known records of lodges in the world , and contain the most important landmarks of the Order , which may not be touched . " Well ! I should say there must have been some tidy folio volumes as the

result , instead of two pages octavo ! and , if the important landmarks arc so sacred , ib would be generous in Bro . Blackburn if he would kindly point out some less holy , so that at least we may write about them , if they are too brittle to be handled . I am neither lugubrious nor an agitator , but call things by their right names . If Bro . Blackburn denies the

effects I imputed to tho patchwork of 1813 , I am willing to meet him word by word , step by step , in every degree , and prove my conclusion . To seek for truth is not to agitate , and the real Freemason will not bolster up an untenable system by a set of legends devoid of authenticity , any more than he will claim for its laws an infallibility not even inferioras some sayto the Word of God

, , itself . Thanking Bro . Blackburn for a good many hearty laughs , and hoping to enjoy many more with him personally , I am , dear Sir ancl Brother , Yours truly and fraternally , ' M . C .

Ar01002

A MAX will daily pass unheeding scenes of beauty which fill another with delight , simply because he lias never cultivated habits of observation and comparison ; and yet it is obvious that the latter enjoys without expense or labour the most abundant and varied source of pleasure from which the former is shut out . Let all , then , and especially the young , cultivate habits of observing , admiring , and loving nature .

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