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  • The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine
  • Nov. 21, 1863
  • Page 8
  • CORRESPONDENCE.
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The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine, Nov. 21, 1863: Page 8

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    Article CORRESPONDENCE. ← Page 2 of 2
    Article THE GLAMORGAN LODGE AND RE-INITIATION. Page 1 of 1
    Article THE ANTIQUITY OF MASONIC DEGREES. Page 1 of 2 →
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Correspondence.

greater , it might be conferred on the chair , or other office he had filled , in . perpetuity , connected with his name . Were this fully carried out there might be a separate heading of testimonials in the subscription lists , somewhat novel in its character , but far brighter and much more enviable than the glitter of any jewel . While on the subject of Masonic Charities , I would

further suggest to the various Boards that the time has arrived when another synopsis , still more comprehensive than the one issued some years since , might be again circulated with advantage . I can speak from experience ,. and the increased funds can still moro strongly testify , to the groat good which sprang from tho one named , especially in the provinces , where the Charities were little known .

, Another thought has long occupied my mind , as to : whether it might not be advisable to make a regulation that every member should , through his subscription to his lodge or chapter , contribute to each of the Charitied . I feel assured this would be satisfactory to the brethren , as all would theii have the opportunity of helping in the ¦ good work ; nor do I think it would interfere with the

sums collected at tho Festivals , while the Charities would gain an amount which might soon render elections unnecessary , " a consummation devoutly' to be Avished . " To ventilate the question still further , I would suggest half-a-crown as the annual subscription to each Charityan inconsiderable sitm for each member , but wtich would

produce a total of surprising magnificence , without at all , in my opinion , checldng voluntary effort . I may add that I haA'e named this both to London and provincial brethren , many of whom thought it practicable , and all that it was worthy of consideration . I should only be too glad to see it adopted , and produce the benefit to the Masonic Charities which I feel convinced it would confer . ' . . , I am , dear Sir and Brother , yours fraternal ! v , November 14 th , 1863 . . P . M .

The Glamorgan Lodge And Re-Initiation.

THE GLAMORGAN LODGE AND RE-INITIATION .

TO THE EDITOR OP TUB MEEMASON 3 MAGAZINE AND MASOXIC 311111101 * . DEAR SIR AND BROTHER , —Although for many years a constant reader of j'our interesting journal , I have never troubled you with any criticisms upon any . of the vai-ious Subjects therein so ably discussed . Nevertheless , as an old member of the same province as tlie brethren of the Glamorgan LodgeI cannot allow the extraordinary t

, repor contained in your last number to pass without recording my protest against a proceeding which I consider unconstitutional , Masonically illegal , and contrary to , as well as subversive of , the very principles of Freemasonry .

Upon the scanty information of your report I will not attempt to discuss the merits of this particular case ; but taking the bare fact into account that a bond fide brother Mason , regularly initiated into Freemasonry in one lodge of this province , has been ( nominally ) re-initiated in another lodge in the same province , regardless of tho viva voce protest of the Past Master , who had himself

initiated him , I cannot view the proceeding in the light of a " farce , " but a seVious scandal upon our Order . Had the offence been committed by a very young lodge , inthe absence of every brother of Masonic standing , it might have passed with a slight reprehension ; but , taking place in the oldest lodge in the province , and in the presence of the Right Worshipful Provincial Grand

Master and his principal officers , I trust those dissentient brethren who felt so much aggrieved as to leave the lodge will lose no time in laying the whole matter before the Board of General Purposes . Yours fraternally , E . G . Swansea , November 18 th , 1863 . P . S . —There was an evident misprint in your report , Aberdeen being substituted for Aberdare .

The Antiquity Of Masonic Degrees.

THE ANTIQUITY OF MASONIC DEGREES .

10 THE EDITOE OT THE ? KEEjrASOS-s' MAGAZBfE AHD MAS 02 JI 0 HIKIiOn . DEAR SIR AND BROTHER , — -I should be unwilling sosoon again to trespass on your limited space , and the indulgence of your readers , did I not feel that the letters of "Delta" and "Rosa Crucis , " in your impression of to-day , require some sort Of notice . I will endeavour tomake my present communication as brief as possible ,, since

, like a far abler controversialist of this century , I feel that we have mutually " vindicated our expressedopinions ; " and , as we have probably already written moreon the subject than tho brethren will be willing toread , we may take the hint , and quietly withdraw from the contest . 1 . With respect to " Delta , " I cannot hope to follow

him among " Egyptian Pastaspheri , " or " the Brahmins and Chaldasans , " or the " Sons of Noah , " or the agreeable " assassins , " or the "Three Templar Classes , " or even " tho Maccabees . " It is sufficient for me that "Delta " gives up , in verystrong language , too , the Masonic Knights Templar , and , admits that the Craft degrees and the Royal Arch , degree are more ancient than the Masonic Knights Templar .

" Delta" seeniSjif I understand his language , to fallback ,, however , on the Templar Degree , perpetuated in the"Ancient and Accepted Rite ; " and there I am quitecontent to leave him . Will he , however , in conclusion , excuse me for asking his authority for the statement , that the Old York Masons claimed Baldwin of Jerusalem as the author of

their privileges ? Where is this to be found ? Much has'been written and put forward as . "York . Masonry" and the "York Rite" which has not , and never had , the slightest authoritative connection with it ; . and I suspect that " Delta" has fallen into the common error of relying on insufficient authority , and of

accepting the spurious ritual of some vain Masonic neologist in the ancient traditions and customs of the Order . I have no doubt that " Delta" has seen this statement , but the question I ask is , Where ? Then we shall see what sort of an authority ib really is , since , as far . as I know , nothing of the sort is known or claimed in theoldest and most genuine tradition of York working . I may well leave our controversy here , as " Delta" hashimself admitted everything I have , so far , contended for .

2 . In answer to " Rosa Crucis , " I regret having , as he says , unintentionally misrepresented his words . But , even now , I do not understand his argument to be anything different . He makes a distinction at the outsetbetween the " Knightly Orders" and the " Chivalric Degrees , " but later on he alludes to the ceremonies under the authority of the Grand Conclave , and the ritual still

observed in two encampments he names . What I said I now repeat , that if their rituals be notthe real rituals of the Orders whoso name they bear , they are worse than useless for the purposes of this controversy ; and if they be , they still leave tho question undecided , whether Craft Masonry preceded the Knightly Ordersor the KnihtlOrders were the oriin of Craft

, gy g Masonry . That the Masonic Knights Templar do not retain theancient ritual of the Templars of old , I have already expressed my humble , but deliberate opinion ; and the same may be said of the Knights of St . John , aud any other so-called Orders . " Rosa Crucis" talks of chivalric degreesand speaks

, of Red Cross Knights and the Rose Croix . I makebold to ask him when were the Red Cross Knights instituted , since there is no trace of them in the best histories of chivalry ? " Rosa Crucis" also puts forward the Ancient and Accepted Rite ; but he must allow me to add , what he very well knows , that its formalised system is of a very recent date .

“The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine: 1863-11-21, Page 8” Masonic Periodicals Online, Library and Museum of Freemasonry, 11 May 2025, django:8000/periodicals/mmr/issues/mmr_21111863/page/8/.
  • List
  • Grid
Title Category Page
DOUBLE INITIATION. Article 1
MASONIC SAYINGS AND DOINGS. Article 1
PROFESSOR DONALDSON ON THE POSITION OF ARCHITECTURE.* Article 2
MASONIC NOTES AND QUERIES . Article 4
CORRESPONDENCE. Article 7
THE GLAMORGAN LODGE AND RE-INITIATION. Article 8
THE ANTIQUITY OF MASONIC DEGREES. Article 8
ON THE PROCESSIONS OF ANCIENT 'FREEMASONS, &c, IN LONDON. Article 9
CAN A WARDEN INITIATE ? &c. Article 10
Untitled Article 10
THE MASONIC MIRROR. Article 11
METROPOLITAN. Article 11
PROVINCIAL. Article 12
ROYAL ARCH. Article 14
IRELAND. Article 14
COLONIAL. Article 14
AUSTRALIA. Article 15
PUBLIC AMUSEMENTS. Article 16
Poetry. Article 18
THE WEEK. Article 18
TO CORRESPONDENTS. Article 20
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Correspondence.

greater , it might be conferred on the chair , or other office he had filled , in . perpetuity , connected with his name . Were this fully carried out there might be a separate heading of testimonials in the subscription lists , somewhat novel in its character , but far brighter and much more enviable than the glitter of any jewel . While on the subject of Masonic Charities , I would

further suggest to the various Boards that the time has arrived when another synopsis , still more comprehensive than the one issued some years since , might be again circulated with advantage . I can speak from experience ,. and the increased funds can still moro strongly testify , to the groat good which sprang from tho one named , especially in the provinces , where the Charities were little known .

, Another thought has long occupied my mind , as to : whether it might not be advisable to make a regulation that every member should , through his subscription to his lodge or chapter , contribute to each of the Charitied . I feel assured this would be satisfactory to the brethren , as all would theii have the opportunity of helping in the ¦ good work ; nor do I think it would interfere with the

sums collected at tho Festivals , while the Charities would gain an amount which might soon render elections unnecessary , " a consummation devoutly' to be Avished . " To ventilate the question still further , I would suggest half-a-crown as the annual subscription to each Charityan inconsiderable sitm for each member , but wtich would

produce a total of surprising magnificence , without at all , in my opinion , checldng voluntary effort . I may add that I haA'e named this both to London and provincial brethren , many of whom thought it practicable , and all that it was worthy of consideration . I should only be too glad to see it adopted , and produce the benefit to the Masonic Charities which I feel convinced it would confer . ' . . , I am , dear Sir and Brother , yours fraternal ! v , November 14 th , 1863 . . P . M .

The Glamorgan Lodge And Re-Initiation.

THE GLAMORGAN LODGE AND RE-INITIATION .

TO THE EDITOR OP TUB MEEMASON 3 MAGAZINE AND MASOXIC 311111101 * . DEAR SIR AND BROTHER , —Although for many years a constant reader of j'our interesting journal , I have never troubled you with any criticisms upon any . of the vai-ious Subjects therein so ably discussed . Nevertheless , as an old member of the same province as tlie brethren of the Glamorgan LodgeI cannot allow the extraordinary t

, repor contained in your last number to pass without recording my protest against a proceeding which I consider unconstitutional , Masonically illegal , and contrary to , as well as subversive of , the very principles of Freemasonry .

Upon the scanty information of your report I will not attempt to discuss the merits of this particular case ; but taking the bare fact into account that a bond fide brother Mason , regularly initiated into Freemasonry in one lodge of this province , has been ( nominally ) re-initiated in another lodge in the same province , regardless of tho viva voce protest of the Past Master , who had himself

initiated him , I cannot view the proceeding in the light of a " farce , " but a seVious scandal upon our Order . Had the offence been committed by a very young lodge , inthe absence of every brother of Masonic standing , it might have passed with a slight reprehension ; but , taking place in the oldest lodge in the province , and in the presence of the Right Worshipful Provincial Grand

Master and his principal officers , I trust those dissentient brethren who felt so much aggrieved as to leave the lodge will lose no time in laying the whole matter before the Board of General Purposes . Yours fraternally , E . G . Swansea , November 18 th , 1863 . P . S . —There was an evident misprint in your report , Aberdeen being substituted for Aberdare .

The Antiquity Of Masonic Degrees.

THE ANTIQUITY OF MASONIC DEGREES .

10 THE EDITOE OT THE ? KEEjrASOS-s' MAGAZBfE AHD MAS 02 JI 0 HIKIiOn . DEAR SIR AND BROTHER , — -I should be unwilling sosoon again to trespass on your limited space , and the indulgence of your readers , did I not feel that the letters of "Delta" and "Rosa Crucis , " in your impression of to-day , require some sort Of notice . I will endeavour tomake my present communication as brief as possible ,, since

, like a far abler controversialist of this century , I feel that we have mutually " vindicated our expressedopinions ; " and , as we have probably already written moreon the subject than tho brethren will be willing toread , we may take the hint , and quietly withdraw from the contest . 1 . With respect to " Delta , " I cannot hope to follow

him among " Egyptian Pastaspheri , " or " the Brahmins and Chaldasans , " or the " Sons of Noah , " or the agreeable " assassins , " or the "Three Templar Classes , " or even " tho Maccabees . " It is sufficient for me that "Delta " gives up , in verystrong language , too , the Masonic Knights Templar , and , admits that the Craft degrees and the Royal Arch , degree are more ancient than the Masonic Knights Templar .

" Delta" seeniSjif I understand his language , to fallback ,, however , on the Templar Degree , perpetuated in the"Ancient and Accepted Rite ; " and there I am quitecontent to leave him . Will he , however , in conclusion , excuse me for asking his authority for the statement , that the Old York Masons claimed Baldwin of Jerusalem as the author of

their privileges ? Where is this to be found ? Much has'been written and put forward as . "York . Masonry" and the "York Rite" which has not , and never had , the slightest authoritative connection with it ; . and I suspect that " Delta" has fallen into the common error of relying on insufficient authority , and of

accepting the spurious ritual of some vain Masonic neologist in the ancient traditions and customs of the Order . I have no doubt that " Delta" has seen this statement , but the question I ask is , Where ? Then we shall see what sort of an authority ib really is , since , as far . as I know , nothing of the sort is known or claimed in theoldest and most genuine tradition of York working . I may well leave our controversy here , as " Delta" hashimself admitted everything I have , so far , contended for .

2 . In answer to " Rosa Crucis , " I regret having , as he says , unintentionally misrepresented his words . But , even now , I do not understand his argument to be anything different . He makes a distinction at the outsetbetween the " Knightly Orders" and the " Chivalric Degrees , " but later on he alludes to the ceremonies under the authority of the Grand Conclave , and the ritual still

observed in two encampments he names . What I said I now repeat , that if their rituals be notthe real rituals of the Orders whoso name they bear , they are worse than useless for the purposes of this controversy ; and if they be , they still leave tho question undecided , whether Craft Masonry preceded the Knightly Ordersor the KnihtlOrders were the oriin of Craft

, gy g Masonry . That the Masonic Knights Templar do not retain theancient ritual of the Templars of old , I have already expressed my humble , but deliberate opinion ; and the same may be said of the Knights of St . John , aud any other so-called Orders . " Rosa Crucis" talks of chivalric degreesand speaks

, of Red Cross Knights and the Rose Croix . I makebold to ask him when were the Red Cross Knights instituted , since there is no trace of them in the best histories of chivalry ? " Rosa Crucis" also puts forward the Ancient and Accepted Rite ; but he must allow me to add , what he very well knows , that its formalised system is of a very recent date .

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