Correspondence.

would not desire to see any such foolish event happening as Bro . Lyon hints at ; but , on the other hand , if the grounds on which the Lodge Kilwinning attained to her present position are proved to have been false , what real good would that position do her ? It would simply be gilding not solid gold . And if

the Lodge Kilwinning were to leave the Grand Lodge of Scotland after St . John ' s had proved its priority , I am rather afraid it would make a poor figure as a Supreme Masonic Court , as it would find that it had suffered through more light . But the Mother Kilwinning has peculiar claims to

a high position ; and supposing St . John ' s succeeds in proving its priority , I would desire nothing better than to see the Kilwinning and St . John ' s placed side by side , both giving way a little , and grasping each other as brethren . And as both of us have thrown in our lot with the Grand Lodof Scotlandlet us

ge , strive who can advance her interests most . For although historical truth must be brought to lieht , yet we must not allow that to interfere with our duty as brethren .

On considering what I would judge to be the proper position of Melrose St . John , I consider it to he strange that I agree with Bro . Oneal Haye in placing it as No . 3 , that is going on" the idea of age . Although we differ greatly regarding the others , I make out the priority to be Glasgow St . John ' s

( without going further back at present ) say at building of Glasgow Cathedral , of 1123 , No . 1 ¦ St . Mary's Chapel ( if it built Holyrood Abbey ) , in 1128 , No . 2 Melrose St . John , at Melrose Abbey , in 1136 , No . 3 ; Mother Kilwinning cceval with Kilwinning Abbey in 1140 No . 4 Scoone and Perth No 5 unless as I

, , . , said formerly Cannongate Kilwinning can show grounds of priority . Bro . Lyon gives some remarks and questions about our charter , so I will now turn to it a little , more critically than I have hitherto done . The No . 3 after Malcolm ' s name I consider to be

worth nothing , the correctness of the date is a question , at first sight the chief ground on which the Charter can claim existence before 1115 is the name Andrew Hamilton , Bishop of Glasgow , there being no

such bishop after 1115 , but after seeing the contracted Latin so much used in the Royal Charters of the 12 th century , our translator may have made a mistake inadvertently . But let us take the three names of Gilbert of Monteith , Sir Robert of Velen , and Adam of Stenhouse , and try to discover in whose reign these

three contemporary individuals lived . In the Great Charter of Vielso of Malcolm IV ., 1159 , 1 find the names of Earl David my Brother Earl Duncan , and Magistro Andrea . Now I know of no Earl David , my brother , that could be in Malcolm Canmore ' s rei . In the Charter to Burgh of Aof William

gn yr the Lion , I find both Philip and William of Valsines , mentioned . Philip de Valen is also mentioned in our Charter from William the Lion about 1192 . So that it is likely that the Sir Robert of Valen in our old Charter is one of the ancestors of Philip , perhaps his father ( if our Charter dates 1157 )

. As the attempt to decipher our old Charier anew may take some time , I would respectfully and fraternally ask of some of some of our brother historical scholars , to enable ns to find out when the three parties I named above lived ?

I have not yet been able to get the particulars oi the case in the Court of Session where our old Charter was sustained , but the Clerk of the Incorporation has promised to look over the books and give me them in a few days . I may however mention here that while it was taken as a Genuine old Royal Charter , I

understand it was without reference to its exact date . Bro . Lyon also says " Malcolm IV . began to reign thirteen years subsequent to the period at which the Lodge of Kilwinning is believed to have been first constituted . " Very good Bro . Lyon , but on the other hand the brethren of the Lodge of Glasgow St . John ,

were engaged at the building of Glasgow Cathedral in 1123 , seventeen years before the Lodge of Kilwinning is believed to have been first constituted , an d as I said before the age of the Lodge of Glasgow St . John is the age of the old Charter Plus , time immemorial . A careful reading of the Charter will show

that—e . g . How could the Masons of Glasgow have known that lodges had been erected " contrary to the rules of Masonry" unless from the knowledge they already possessed as members of a regular lodge ; again it does not say the Masons of Glasgow shall have a lodge for ever to he called the St . John's Lodge . But it is taken as granted that St . John ' s is the name of the lodge already existing . I have shown our Old Charter -was not the founda ^

tion of St . John ' s Lodge Glasgow , but an evidence of its existence at a particular date . Now supposing this Old Charter were altogether clone away with , let ns look at what St . John ' s could say for itself without it . Well then 1 st , an old cathedral existed at Glasgow before 1123 . 2 ndly , a cathedral was founded there bSt . John ' s Lod ( if not by whom ?) in 1123 .

y ge 3 rd . A cathedral ivas again founded there in 11 S 1 , and a charter of encouragement granted by William the Lion about 1192 , and speaking of this charter , Hamilton , of Wishaw , in his description of the Sheriffdoms of Lanark and Renfrewe , sayspage 162 ' - The following Charter */

sug-, , gests an inquiry whether the building of cathedral churches , monasteries , and other important ecclesiastical buildings may not have given rise to the Societies of Freemasons . "

Fraternitatem quam ad ejus constructionea . venerabilis Jocelinus ejusdem ecclesie episcopus . "f Fourthly . Completion of the choir of cathedral about 1250 , the Bishops of Glasgow also keeping the Masons employed at their own houses . Fifthly . Old Stockwell Bridge built over the Clyde , about 1360 .

Sixthly . Spire of cathedral built , and crypt below the Chapter House , 1420 ; Chapter House ancl Lady ' s Chapel built , about 1440 . Seventh . Glasgow University built , about 1450 . Eighth . Crypt of south transept built and interior of cathedral decorated , & c , about 1500 . Ninth . Archbishop Beaton , who also held the Abbacies of Arbroath and Kilwinning , enclosed his palace