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  • May 22, 1869
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The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine, May 22, 1869: Page 11

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    Article MASONIC NOTES AND QERIES. ← Page 2 of 3 →
Page 11

Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.

Masonic Notes And Qeries.

CHANGING NUMBERS OE LODGES . The History of the Eoyal Athelstan Lodge , JN O . 19 , by Bro . William M . Bywater , gives a curious instance of the taking up of an old number of an extinct lodge by a junior Lodge . The Athelstan took up the No . 10 of an extinct York Lodge in 1792 for which

, it paid £ 5 5 s . to the Charity Fund . Its own number , 159 , was granted in 1 S 05 to the Prince of Brunswick Lodge . Here is a disturbing cause in Masonic history . — H . C .

MASONIC LOGIC ; OR , MASONRY = EREEHASONRT ? Many consider that , by calling the designers of our old cathedrals " speculative Masons , " and calling the craftsmen who executed the work " operative Masons , " they thus show evidence of the existence of Freemasonry or " speculative Masonry" six

, say . or seven centuries ago ; hut such logic Avon't stand , simply because conceiving the design and drawing it out was as much a needful portion of the work as laying the foundations ; and , so far as the 13 th century craftsmen or designers Avere concerned , the one had about as much to do Avith our present "

Freemasonry " as the other ; neither having the least idea of such a thing . And , as may be seen by the extract at page 308 of the Magazine , Avhich I gave from the Spalding Club ivork , the " maister of wark" some times executed in his own person the duties of designer and operative at one and the same time , as

the extract says , " to do al car concerning the said Avark that accordis til a maister of wark , baith in labouring of his awyn personn , devysing , " & c . The fact of the matter is , as it seems to me , our " Ereemasonry " is a new institution , with new ideas , which sprang into life about the beginning of last century . Only , as the old operative Masonic lodge was chosen as the stem upon which to graft this new idea , said operative lodge therefore considers itself

entitled m some measure to be regarded as the parent of the young idea . However , a man ' s age does not count from the time Avhen his father AA'as born , but from , the time Avhen ho was born himself , consequently the real age of " Freemasonry , " per se , counts from the time when the aforesaid grafting took place .

A peasant might have a son who might rise to be a king and the founder of a race of kings of his own blood , yet said king ' s successors would have no right to date the establishment of their line any further hack than the election or coronation of their founder —the peasant's son .

The similarity in the nomenclature , which was adopted by the founders of our system of Freemasonry , and which assisted in giving it a better start , has tended to the current confusion of ideas . Further , many ideas , & c , which had been in use in bye-gone timesamongst long extinct societiesbeing

, , sought out and incorporated with the neAV institution , has misled many , causing them to consider that said institution itself ( i . e ., Freemasonry ) must therefore be old ; but such is not the case , any more than the carrying away a lot of stones from the Parthenon and building them into the new Glasgow University would

make it , therefore , two thousand years old . An archfeologist could say , "the carving on these purloined stones must have been executed in Grecian times ; but , as we perceive from their surroundings ,

their position in situ is quite recent . " I must here close my present remarks on " Masonic Logic , " and beg to enclose the following poem on " Modern Logic , " which many brethren may never perhaps have had the pleasure of perusing . —W . P . BUCHAN .

" MODERN LOGIC . " An Eton stripling training for ths law—A dunce at syntax , but a dab at taw—One happy Christmas laid upon the shelf His cap , ancl gown , and store of learned pelf , With all the deathless bards of Greece and Rome

, To spend a foitnight at his uncle's home . Arrived , aud past the usual 'How d ' ye do ' s ? ' Inquiries of old friends , and college news : — ' Well , Tom , my lad , ivhat saw you Avorth discerning ? And how goes study , boy—ivhat is't your learning ? ' ' OhLogicsir ; but not the worn-out rules

, , Of Locke and Bacon—antiquated fools ! 'Tis wit and Avranglers' logic;—thus , d ' ye see , I'll prove to you as clear as A , B , C , That an eel-pie's a pigeon : —to deny it , Were to swear black ' s ivhite . '— 'Indeed ! let's try it . ' ' An eel-pie is a pie of fish ? '— ' Well—agreed . '

' A fish-pie may be a Jack-pie ? ' — ' Proceed . ' ' A Jack-pio must be a John-pie—thus 'tis done , Eor every John-pie is a Pigeon !' ' Bravo ! ' Sir Peter cries— ' Logic for ever ! It beats my grandmother— -and she Avas clever ! But holdmy boy—it surely would be hard

, That wit and learning should have no reward . To-morrow , for a stroll , the park we'll cross , And then I'll give you , Tom , a high-bred horse . ' ' A horse ! ' cries Tom ; ' blood , pedigree , and paces 1

Oh , what a dash I'll cut at Epsom races !' He ivent to bed , and wept for downright sorrow , To think the night must pass before the morrow ; Dreamed'of his boots , cap , spurs , and leather breeches , Of leaping five-barred gates , and crossing ditches : Left his Avarm bed an hour before the lark ,

Dragged his old uncle fasting through the park : — Each craggy hill aud dale in vain they cross , To find out something like the expected horse , But no such animal the meadows crossed : At length , beneath a tree Sir Peter stopped—Took a bough—shook it—and down fell

A fine large chestnut in its prickly shell'There , Tom , take that . ' — 'Well , Sir , and what beside ? ' 'Why , since you ' re booted , saddle it , and ride . ' ' Ride ! What ?—A chestnut ! ' —Ay , come get across ; I tell Tomthat chestnut is a horse

you , , , And all the horse you'll get!—for I can show , As clear as sunshine' that 'tis really so—Not by the musty , fusty , Avorn-out rules Of Locke and Bacon—addle-headed fools ! All maxims but the wranglers' I disown , And stick to one sound argument—your own .

Since you have proved to me , I don ' t deny , That a pie-John is the same as a John-pie—What follows then , hut as a thing of course , That a hovse-eJiestnut is a chestnut-Ziorse ? ' "

FREEBORN . It is much to he regretted that brethren will jump at conclusions instead of working them out . When in this country and others there ivere serfs , slaves , adscript ! glebas , villains , & c , in the country , and

“The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine: 1869-05-22, Page 11” Masonic Periodicals Online, Library and Museum of Freemasonry, 22 May 2025, django:8000/periodicals/mmr/issues/mmr_22051869/page/11/.
  • List
  • Grid
Title Category Page
MASONIC CELESTIAL MYSTERIES. Article 1
CHIPS OF FOREIGN ASHLAR. Article 4
NUMBERS. Article 7
MASONIC NOTES AND QERIES. Article 10
CORRESPONDENCE. Article 12
BRO. MELVILLE'S ARTICLES. Article 13
P.M.'S AND THE WORKING BRETHREN OF LODGES. Article 13
BIBLICAL REFERENCES. Article 14
MASONIC CELESTIAL MYSTERIES. Article 14
THE MASONIC MIRROR. Article 14
ROYAL MASONIC INSTITUTION FOR GIRLS. Article 15
METROPOLITAN. Article 16
PROVINCIAL. Article 17
ROYAL ARCH. Article 17
MARK MASONRY. Article 17
KNIGHTS TEMPLAR. Article 18
ANCIENT AND ACCEPTED RITE. Article 19
Obituary. Article 19
MEETINGS OF THE LEARNED SOCIETIES. Article 20
LIST OF LODGE, &c., MEETINGS FOR WEEK ENDING 29TH MAY, 1869. Article 20
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Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.

Masonic Notes And Qeries.

CHANGING NUMBERS OE LODGES . The History of the Eoyal Athelstan Lodge , JN O . 19 , by Bro . William M . Bywater , gives a curious instance of the taking up of an old number of an extinct lodge by a junior Lodge . The Athelstan took up the No . 10 of an extinct York Lodge in 1792 for which

, it paid £ 5 5 s . to the Charity Fund . Its own number , 159 , was granted in 1 S 05 to the Prince of Brunswick Lodge . Here is a disturbing cause in Masonic history . — H . C .

MASONIC LOGIC ; OR , MASONRY = EREEHASONRT ? Many consider that , by calling the designers of our old cathedrals " speculative Masons , " and calling the craftsmen who executed the work " operative Masons , " they thus show evidence of the existence of Freemasonry or " speculative Masonry" six

, say . or seven centuries ago ; hut such logic Avon't stand , simply because conceiving the design and drawing it out was as much a needful portion of the work as laying the foundations ; and , so far as the 13 th century craftsmen or designers Avere concerned , the one had about as much to do Avith our present "

Freemasonry " as the other ; neither having the least idea of such a thing . And , as may be seen by the extract at page 308 of the Magazine , Avhich I gave from the Spalding Club ivork , the " maister of wark" some times executed in his own person the duties of designer and operative at one and the same time , as

the extract says , " to do al car concerning the said Avark that accordis til a maister of wark , baith in labouring of his awyn personn , devysing , " & c . The fact of the matter is , as it seems to me , our " Ereemasonry " is a new institution , with new ideas , which sprang into life about the beginning of last century . Only , as the old operative Masonic lodge was chosen as the stem upon which to graft this new idea , said operative lodge therefore considers itself

entitled m some measure to be regarded as the parent of the young idea . However , a man ' s age does not count from the time Avhen his father AA'as born , but from , the time Avhen ho was born himself , consequently the real age of " Freemasonry , " per se , counts from the time when the aforesaid grafting took place .

A peasant might have a son who might rise to be a king and the founder of a race of kings of his own blood , yet said king ' s successors would have no right to date the establishment of their line any further hack than the election or coronation of their founder —the peasant's son .

The similarity in the nomenclature , which was adopted by the founders of our system of Freemasonry , and which assisted in giving it a better start , has tended to the current confusion of ideas . Further , many ideas , & c , which had been in use in bye-gone timesamongst long extinct societiesbeing

, , sought out and incorporated with the neAV institution , has misled many , causing them to consider that said institution itself ( i . e ., Freemasonry ) must therefore be old ; but such is not the case , any more than the carrying away a lot of stones from the Parthenon and building them into the new Glasgow University would

make it , therefore , two thousand years old . An archfeologist could say , "the carving on these purloined stones must have been executed in Grecian times ; but , as we perceive from their surroundings ,

their position in situ is quite recent . " I must here close my present remarks on " Masonic Logic , " and beg to enclose the following poem on " Modern Logic , " which many brethren may never perhaps have had the pleasure of perusing . —W . P . BUCHAN .

" MODERN LOGIC . " An Eton stripling training for ths law—A dunce at syntax , but a dab at taw—One happy Christmas laid upon the shelf His cap , ancl gown , and store of learned pelf , With all the deathless bards of Greece and Rome

, To spend a foitnight at his uncle's home . Arrived , aud past the usual 'How d ' ye do ' s ? ' Inquiries of old friends , and college news : — ' Well , Tom , my lad , ivhat saw you Avorth discerning ? And how goes study , boy—ivhat is't your learning ? ' ' OhLogicsir ; but not the worn-out rules

, , Of Locke and Bacon—antiquated fools ! 'Tis wit and Avranglers' logic;—thus , d ' ye see , I'll prove to you as clear as A , B , C , That an eel-pie's a pigeon : —to deny it , Were to swear black ' s ivhite . '— 'Indeed ! let's try it . ' ' An eel-pie is a pie of fish ? '— ' Well—agreed . '

' A fish-pie may be a Jack-pie ? ' — ' Proceed . ' ' A Jack-pio must be a John-pie—thus 'tis done , Eor every John-pie is a Pigeon !' ' Bravo ! ' Sir Peter cries— ' Logic for ever ! It beats my grandmother— -and she Avas clever ! But holdmy boy—it surely would be hard

, That wit and learning should have no reward . To-morrow , for a stroll , the park we'll cross , And then I'll give you , Tom , a high-bred horse . ' ' A horse ! ' cries Tom ; ' blood , pedigree , and paces 1

Oh , what a dash I'll cut at Epsom races !' He ivent to bed , and wept for downright sorrow , To think the night must pass before the morrow ; Dreamed'of his boots , cap , spurs , and leather breeches , Of leaping five-barred gates , and crossing ditches : Left his Avarm bed an hour before the lark ,

Dragged his old uncle fasting through the park : — Each craggy hill aud dale in vain they cross , To find out something like the expected horse , But no such animal the meadows crossed : At length , beneath a tree Sir Peter stopped—Took a bough—shook it—and down fell

A fine large chestnut in its prickly shell'There , Tom , take that . ' — 'Well , Sir , and what beside ? ' 'Why , since you ' re booted , saddle it , and ride . ' ' Ride ! What ?—A chestnut ! ' —Ay , come get across ; I tell Tomthat chestnut is a horse

you , , , And all the horse you'll get!—for I can show , As clear as sunshine' that 'tis really so—Not by the musty , fusty , Avorn-out rules Of Locke and Bacon—addle-headed fools ! All maxims but the wranglers' I disown , And stick to one sound argument—your own .

Since you have proved to me , I don ' t deny , That a pie-John is the same as a John-pie—What follows then , hut as a thing of course , That a hovse-eJiestnut is a chestnut-Ziorse ? ' "

FREEBORN . It is much to he regretted that brethren will jump at conclusions instead of working them out . When in this country and others there ivere serfs , slaves , adscript ! glebas , villains , & c , in the country , and

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