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  • April 24, 1869
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The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine, April 24, 1869: Page 10

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    Article MASONIC NOTES AND QUERIES. ← Page 2 of 3 →
Page 10

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Masonic Notes And Queries.

by "* b J . D . M . " as to its description , wkbh I am not aware of its being responded to , if not I should again respectfully call attention to the request of " * J . D . M . "— PICTUS . MASONS' MAEKS ( p . 307 ) . On page 30 S for « letters of the Greek alhabet "

p , read "letters of the Greek and other alphabets , '' such as Eunic or Eoman letters , & c—W . P . B . Burgh Becords , 4 th May , 1484 , page 30 S , for " resaint " read " resauit , " for " work " read " wark , " for " personn " read " persoim . "—W . P . B .

"A COMING ' LIGHT . '— "WHAT NEXT ?" The above is the heading of a letter which appeared in the "Scottish Freemasons' Magazine , " for June , I 860 , said letter being signed by " your humble servant , Henry Melville . " Iu it Mr . Melville ( now , I understandBroMelville ) "It is admitted

, . , says , an fact that the Masonic mysteries are lost , and that it would be beneficial to the Order could the brethren re-discover them . I am in possession of them , " & c . "The knowledge was not communicated to me Masomeally , and therefore I am not bound by any obligationand can reveal the secrets if I think

, proper , " & c . Nearly three years have now passed , and at page 241 of this Magazine we have " Masonic Celestial Mysteries , " by Henry Melville , in which he says , " I am about to present to my Masonic brethren a series of papers relating to our ancient Order . " Bro . Melville then goes on to tell about certain ancient

astronomic ideas or mystical teachings , or remarks anent ancient astronomy , which Bro . D . J . Godfrey , at page 290 , tells us is an "Astro-Masonic paper , or Masonic Astronomv . The idea somehow enters my head that it might be called pseudo-Masonic , so far as " the real and valuable secrets of the ancient

Order of free and accepted Masons " is concerned ; further , I add that there are no Masonic " secrets " about it , and there is not the slightest necessity for pretending to conceal these " valuable Masonic secrets " from anybody . The real secrets of Freemasonry are safe in their simplicity , which is also their

beauty' Like the cerulean an avcli we see , Majestic in its oivn simplicity . " The most serviceable and common-sense plan for Bro . Melville to adopt , would be to write and publish all his valuable "lost Becrets" without making any unnecessary fuss about the matter , then , if there

were anything relating to our system of Preemasonry in his book , Freemasons would know what to do . As to Bro . D . J . Godfrey ' s remarks at page 292 , they are making rather too much of nothing —print the hook first . I am astonished that brethren could for a moment imagine that Bro

. Melville , or any other body , is or could be able to tell us about such pretended " lost Masonic secrets . " Masonic secrets ! — Masonic nonsense— any true Masonic secrets worth disclosirjg , would be something ahont practical Masonic construction , i . e ., practical Masonry or architecture At 304

. page , Bro . Melville says , "Enough has been shewn of Egyptian mysteries ! "Were more proofs brought forward it might probably allow the uninitiated to -obtain a clue by which all the secrets of Masonry might become unravelled . " Is Bro . Melville

laughing at us ? or is he trying to impose upon the public ? So far as Bro . Melville can write and speak of ancient Assyrian or Egyptian astronomy or mythology , or the ancient mysteries—religious or civilwell and good , but when he begins to tell us that these are Masonic secrets—lost Masonic secrets , & c ,

—it won't do . And when Bro . Godfrey gives out the idea of starting a Masonic School where these " lost secrets " may be discovered , he is , to say the least , coming it rather strong . There is one secret which many Masons seem to have lost , and which would be worth discovering , viz ., the secret of understanding common sense . —PICTUS .

EEEEMASONET ABOUT TWO HUNDEED YEAES AGO . The Lansdowne MS . 98 f . 48 , to which allusion has been made by Pictus , is in the handwriting of the early part of the 17 th century , the water mark is found in paper dated about 1620 . Mr . Halliwell is , therefore , perfectly accurate in the date he attributes

to the MS . As the question of the MSS . has been raised , I may be tempted some other day to forward a further communication in respect to them . I do not think that Pictus's note in the last Magazine calls for much reply . I would only say that the " building corporations " may be traced from the

fall of the Roman Empire to the end of the 16 th century , but that by the end of that century they were clearly rapidly decaying in prestige and power . They were at their height in this country probably between 12 S 0 and 14 S 0 . I can only repeat that the statement of Pictus that " certain individuals

fabricated our Master's Degree about 1700 , '' appears to me to prove that Pictus has not yet himself studied the question of evidence as it bears on the history of Preemasonry in England . Any theory more opposed to the real facts of the case cannot be well imagined . I have already stated that I unreservedly accept the tradition of our Order which connects us with King . Solomon and the Temple . —A MASONIC STUDENT .

LODGE MINUTES , ETC . NO . 3 . ( p . 289 ) . I give a few more extracts from the old minutebook referred to at page 268 . — " That all quarriers be warned to the courts held by the Incorporation as brethren thereof , they bearing burden with the masonsall in terms of the

, charter ( 11 th December , 1600 ) . " In minutes of 1604—5 & 7 , " visitors " are elected as office-bearers to the corporation . In a minute of 1681 it says , — " All who ride to burials or other common raids hereafter , shall ride upon their own charges , and shall not be allowed out

of the common purse . " In another minute of 1681 , a member is found " to be in the wrong for calling the said Andrew a mansworn seducer in presence of the old and new Deacon , and therefore descerning the said James to pay £ 4 * penalty to the Deaconand to ask the said Andrew ' s

, forgiveness upon his knees in all humility . " Special meetings "that any person causing the Cratt to be convened shall pay 20 s . to the Graft for each time they convene to be drunken . " ( 1 st Nov . 1619 . ) On 29 th December , 1602 , Gilbert Peddie , on being

“The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine: 1869-04-24, Page 10” Masonic Periodicals Online, Library and Museum of Freemasonry, 21 June 2025, django:8000/periodicals/mmr/issues/mmr_24041869/page/10/.
  • List
  • Grid
Title Category Page
ORATION. Article 1
MASONIC DISCIPLINE.—XIV. Article 4
THE KNIGHTS TEMPLARS. Article 6
MASONIC NOTES AND QUERIES. Article 9
P.M.'S AND THE WORKING BRETHREN OF LODGES. Article 11
"SANS CEREMONIE." Article 12
MASONIC PERSECUTION. Article 12
MASONIC MEMS. Article 13
METROPOLITAN. Article 13
PROVINCIAL. Article 16
ROYAL ARCH. Article 18
ANCIENT AND ACCEPTED RITE. Article 18
KNIGHTS TEMPLAR. Article 18
THE PRINCE OF THE BLOOD AND THE PRINCE OF THE CHURCH. Article 19
PUBLIC AMUSEMENTS. Article 19
MEETINGS OF THE LEARNED SOCIETIES. Article 20
LIST OF LODGE, &c., MEETINGS FOR WEEK ENDING 1st MAY, 18 69. Article 20
TO CORRESPONDENTS. Article 20
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Masonic Notes And Queries.

by "* b J . D . M . " as to its description , wkbh I am not aware of its being responded to , if not I should again respectfully call attention to the request of " * J . D . M . "— PICTUS . MASONS' MAEKS ( p . 307 ) . On page 30 S for « letters of the Greek alhabet "

p , read "letters of the Greek and other alphabets , '' such as Eunic or Eoman letters , & c—W . P . B . Burgh Becords , 4 th May , 1484 , page 30 S , for " resaint " read " resauit , " for " work " read " wark , " for " personn " read " persoim . "—W . P . B .

"A COMING ' LIGHT . '— "WHAT NEXT ?" The above is the heading of a letter which appeared in the "Scottish Freemasons' Magazine , " for June , I 860 , said letter being signed by " your humble servant , Henry Melville . " Iu it Mr . Melville ( now , I understandBroMelville ) "It is admitted

, . , says , an fact that the Masonic mysteries are lost , and that it would be beneficial to the Order could the brethren re-discover them . I am in possession of them , " & c . "The knowledge was not communicated to me Masomeally , and therefore I am not bound by any obligationand can reveal the secrets if I think

, proper , " & c . Nearly three years have now passed , and at page 241 of this Magazine we have " Masonic Celestial Mysteries , " by Henry Melville , in which he says , " I am about to present to my Masonic brethren a series of papers relating to our ancient Order . " Bro . Melville then goes on to tell about certain ancient

astronomic ideas or mystical teachings , or remarks anent ancient astronomy , which Bro . D . J . Godfrey , at page 290 , tells us is an "Astro-Masonic paper , or Masonic Astronomv . The idea somehow enters my head that it might be called pseudo-Masonic , so far as " the real and valuable secrets of the ancient

Order of free and accepted Masons " is concerned ; further , I add that there are no Masonic " secrets " about it , and there is not the slightest necessity for pretending to conceal these " valuable Masonic secrets " from anybody . The real secrets of Freemasonry are safe in their simplicity , which is also their

beauty' Like the cerulean an avcli we see , Majestic in its oivn simplicity . " The most serviceable and common-sense plan for Bro . Melville to adopt , would be to write and publish all his valuable "lost Becrets" without making any unnecessary fuss about the matter , then , if there

were anything relating to our system of Preemasonry in his book , Freemasons would know what to do . As to Bro . D . J . Godfrey ' s remarks at page 292 , they are making rather too much of nothing —print the hook first . I am astonished that brethren could for a moment imagine that Bro

. Melville , or any other body , is or could be able to tell us about such pretended " lost Masonic secrets . " Masonic secrets ! — Masonic nonsense— any true Masonic secrets worth disclosirjg , would be something ahont practical Masonic construction , i . e ., practical Masonry or architecture At 304

. page , Bro . Melville says , "Enough has been shewn of Egyptian mysteries ! "Were more proofs brought forward it might probably allow the uninitiated to -obtain a clue by which all the secrets of Masonry might become unravelled . " Is Bro . Melville

laughing at us ? or is he trying to impose upon the public ? So far as Bro . Melville can write and speak of ancient Assyrian or Egyptian astronomy or mythology , or the ancient mysteries—religious or civilwell and good , but when he begins to tell us that these are Masonic secrets—lost Masonic secrets , & c ,

—it won't do . And when Bro . Godfrey gives out the idea of starting a Masonic School where these " lost secrets " may be discovered , he is , to say the least , coming it rather strong . There is one secret which many Masons seem to have lost , and which would be worth discovering , viz ., the secret of understanding common sense . —PICTUS .

EEEEMASONET ABOUT TWO HUNDEED YEAES AGO . The Lansdowne MS . 98 f . 48 , to which allusion has been made by Pictus , is in the handwriting of the early part of the 17 th century , the water mark is found in paper dated about 1620 . Mr . Halliwell is , therefore , perfectly accurate in the date he attributes

to the MS . As the question of the MSS . has been raised , I may be tempted some other day to forward a further communication in respect to them . I do not think that Pictus's note in the last Magazine calls for much reply . I would only say that the " building corporations " may be traced from the

fall of the Roman Empire to the end of the 16 th century , but that by the end of that century they were clearly rapidly decaying in prestige and power . They were at their height in this country probably between 12 S 0 and 14 S 0 . I can only repeat that the statement of Pictus that " certain individuals

fabricated our Master's Degree about 1700 , '' appears to me to prove that Pictus has not yet himself studied the question of evidence as it bears on the history of Preemasonry in England . Any theory more opposed to the real facts of the case cannot be well imagined . I have already stated that I unreservedly accept the tradition of our Order which connects us with King . Solomon and the Temple . —A MASONIC STUDENT .

LODGE MINUTES , ETC . NO . 3 . ( p . 289 ) . I give a few more extracts from the old minutebook referred to at page 268 . — " That all quarriers be warned to the courts held by the Incorporation as brethren thereof , they bearing burden with the masonsall in terms of the

, charter ( 11 th December , 1600 ) . " In minutes of 1604—5 & 7 , " visitors " are elected as office-bearers to the corporation . In a minute of 1681 it says , — " All who ride to burials or other common raids hereafter , shall ride upon their own charges , and shall not be allowed out

of the common purse . " In another minute of 1681 , a member is found " to be in the wrong for calling the said Andrew a mansworn seducer in presence of the old and new Deacon , and therefore descerning the said James to pay £ 4 * penalty to the Deaconand to ask the said Andrew ' s

, forgiveness upon his knees in all humility . " Special meetings "that any person causing the Cratt to be convened shall pay 20 s . to the Graft for each time they convene to be drunken . " ( 1 st Nov . 1619 . ) On 29 th December , 1602 , Gilbert Peddie , on being

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