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  • The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine
  • July 25, 1868
  • Page 8
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The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine, July 25, 1868: Page 8

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    Article CORRESPONDENCE. Page 1 of 1
    Article BROTHER VICTOR HUGO. Page 1 of 1
    Article PRIORITY OF THE LODGE OF GLASGOW ST. JOHN. Page 1 of 2
    Article PRIORITY OF THE LODGE OF GLASGOW ST. JOHN. Page 1 of 2 →
Page 8

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Correspondence.

CORRESPONDENCE .

The Editor is not responsible for tlie opinions expressed t , y Correspondents , PEOTESTANT OPPOSITION TO EREEMASONRY .

• IO THE EDITOR OP TEE FREEMASONS * MAGAZINE AND MASONIC MIRROR . Bear Sir and Brother , —Bro . D . Murray Lyon , whose contributions to Masonic history and archeology are always interesting to me , has furnished your readers witli an instance of Protestant bigotry such as I had fain hoped did not exist . Still , when the

religious fervour of Scotchmen leads them to denounce the mild and highly decorous " good words , " we can scarcely wonder at whatever extravagances they commit . I imagine , however , that the sect referred to by Bro . Lyon , is neither large nor influential . Tours fraternally , J . A . H .

Brother Victor Hugo.

BROTHER VICTOR HUGO .

TO THE EDITOR OP THK FREEMASONS' MAGAZINE AND MASONIC MIRROR . Dear Sir and Brother , —In the article " Victor Hugo at Home , " ifc was stated that Bro . Hugo left Jersey in consequence of having made certain strictures on Queen Victoria ' s interview with Napoleon III . at Cherbourg . This explanation of Bro . Hugo's retirement from Jersey has been generally believed

in the Channel Islands to be true . Bro . Hugo is , however , anxious that it should be known that he left Jersey on account of matters arising out of the treatment of refugees by the local government of Jersey . If the article in the Magazine has done no more than lead to this refutation of a slander on our illustrious

brother , it has not been entirely useless . It is needless to remark that it is far more in accordance with Bro . Hugo's chivalrous life and character to champion his compatriots in distress than to criticise harshly the Sovereign Lady who stands first in the affections of her subjects . Yours fraternally , July 20 th , 1868 . J . A . H .

Priority Of The Lodge Of Glasgow St. John.

PRIORITY OF THE LODGE OF GLASGOW ST . JOHN .

TO THE EDITOR OE THE FREEMASONS * MAGAZINE AXD MASONIC MIRROR . Dear Sir and Brother , —It was quite refreshing to read in the Magazine , page 5 . 1 , the kind letter of " J . A . " on this subject , and the way he takes to help on the cause—Truth first—Priority to follow . As " J . A . " says , " such rapid and wholesale disposal of charters

" (?) " will hardly satisfy reflecting minds . " I can fancy the following change being rung on a well-known couplet : — Let hisfry , learning , truth , and honour die , But let our legends and old charters lie . Quite right" J . A . " it is too hadthis wholesale

, , , slaughter of the innocents ; poor things , they have been languishing sadly this some time back , and I was lately told that some of them were even dead . Such being the case , we ought , in all honour to their royal descent , to bury them decently ; and that nothing

Priority Of The Lodge Of Glasgow St. John.

may hereafter disturb their peaceful rest , I contribute the following loving epitaph to their memory , which "J . A . " will perhaps kindly favour me by seeing duly carved upon their tomb , my own feelings precluding me from the mournful task ; and in the performance of this paternal duty the heart of " J . A . " may be

somewhat soothed , t quote from Professor Innes : — " Our first corporate charters were to burghs , and not till long after came those to the guilds aud corporations within and uuder burghs ; but there are no charters to burghs till William the Lion . So you see it did not need much sagacity to stamp the

charter of Malcolm—full of the phraseology and minute distinctions of a much later day—as a forgery . " Requiescafc—let the forgeries rest—and thanks be to all who have in any way assisted in their downfall-More especially am I indebted to Professor Innes for the very kind and courteous manner in which he responded to my inquiries regarding the Malcolm writ * as well as other matters of a different stamp .

I am also indebted to Mr . A . D . Robertson , Glasgow ( who in any ecclesiological inquiry can bring tohear upon the subject what it is said few Scotchmen possess , viz ., his knowledge of heraldry ) , for very kindly giving me a few hints and lessons in archeology and ecclesiology , which I hope I may be enabled to follow

up ; and if I have not hitherto quite so correctly rendered the information I have received that is my fault , not theirs , and I aloue am responsible . I believe the true path to finding out the real origin and history of Ereemasonry in Scotland is to be taken in connection with the proper study of these subjects ..

Which . Ereemasonry existed in England amongst the building fraternities , who , after the treaty between William the Lion and Richard Cceur de Lion ( 1189 ) , spread into Scotland , and it was probably owing to the first income of these into his diocese that Jocelyn obtained our 1190 charterregarding which I beg to

, differ from " R . Y ., " and assert that it was a genuine charter ( relying upon the opinion of the first chartologists of the day ) , given , I consider , to real operative Masons—to the men who were to do the stone and lime work , as well as to those who were to collect ;

money for the building of the fabric , who , of course , did not require to be operatives . But of course if " II . Y . " can show me that he can make good his assertion that " it has no connection with Ereemasonry , " although genuine otherwise , then I yield at once ; but I have no respect for a mere dogmatical assertionespecially from an unknown hand ; ifc is

, the demonstration I value . In striving to get at the consistency of truth there is no " servility" in acknowledging error . As Thomas Carlyle said , " there is precious instruction to be got by finding we are wrong . Let a man try faithfully ,, manfully to be righthe will daily more and

, grow more right . " This matter has uow taken a wider field than was at first expected ; it comes now to be not merely whether was St . John ' s or Kilwinning the first ? bufc what was the true origin of Masonry in Scotland .: Our Glasgow Malcolm date is nonsenseso is the

, 1140 date or legend of Kilwinning , and the Melrose and John Muruo , 1136 , likewise . It will hardly do to tell us that our twelfth century Masons came from Cologne , seeing that in the beginning of the thirteenth century the Gothic style

“The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine: 1868-07-25, Page 8” Masonic Periodicals Online, Library and Museum of Freemasonry, 14 May 2025, django:8000/periodicals/mmr/issues/mmr_25071868/page/8/.
  • List
  • Grid
Title Category Page
MASONIC SEALS, COINS, &c. Article 1
THE KNIGHTS TEMPLARS. Article 2
THE MYSTIC TIE. Article 4
FREEMASONRY. Article 6
MASONIC NOTES AND QUERIES. Article 7
CORRESPONDENCE. Article 8
BROTHER VICTOR HUGO. Article 8
PRIORITY OF THE LODGE OF GLASGOW ST. JOHN. Article 8
THEISM AND DEISM. Article 9
MASONIC MEMS. Article 10
ROYAL MASONIC INSTITUTION FOR BOYS. Article 10
MIDDLESEX. Article 12
PROVINCIAL. Article 13
SCOTLAND. Article 15
ROYAL ARCH. Article 15
KNIGHTS TEMPLAR. Article 16
MASONIC FESTIVITIES. Article 16
NEW MASONIC HALL, HALIFAX. Article 16
Obituary. Article 19
BRO. ALFRED A. ROBLES. Article 19
Poetry. Article 19
MOONLIGHT ON THE SNOW. Article 19
A MASONIC REHEARSAL. Article 20
Untitled Article 20
METROPOLITAN LODGE MEETINGS, ETC., FOR THE WEEK ENDING AUGUST 1, 1868. Article 20
TO CORRESPONDENTS. Article 20
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Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.

Correspondence.

CORRESPONDENCE .

The Editor is not responsible for tlie opinions expressed t , y Correspondents , PEOTESTANT OPPOSITION TO EREEMASONRY .

• IO THE EDITOR OP TEE FREEMASONS * MAGAZINE AND MASONIC MIRROR . Bear Sir and Brother , —Bro . D . Murray Lyon , whose contributions to Masonic history and archeology are always interesting to me , has furnished your readers witli an instance of Protestant bigotry such as I had fain hoped did not exist . Still , when the

religious fervour of Scotchmen leads them to denounce the mild and highly decorous " good words , " we can scarcely wonder at whatever extravagances they commit . I imagine , however , that the sect referred to by Bro . Lyon , is neither large nor influential . Tours fraternally , J . A . H .

Brother Victor Hugo.

BROTHER VICTOR HUGO .

TO THE EDITOR OP THK FREEMASONS' MAGAZINE AND MASONIC MIRROR . Dear Sir and Brother , —In the article " Victor Hugo at Home , " ifc was stated that Bro . Hugo left Jersey in consequence of having made certain strictures on Queen Victoria ' s interview with Napoleon III . at Cherbourg . This explanation of Bro . Hugo's retirement from Jersey has been generally believed

in the Channel Islands to be true . Bro . Hugo is , however , anxious that it should be known that he left Jersey on account of matters arising out of the treatment of refugees by the local government of Jersey . If the article in the Magazine has done no more than lead to this refutation of a slander on our illustrious

brother , it has not been entirely useless . It is needless to remark that it is far more in accordance with Bro . Hugo's chivalrous life and character to champion his compatriots in distress than to criticise harshly the Sovereign Lady who stands first in the affections of her subjects . Yours fraternally , July 20 th , 1868 . J . A . H .

Priority Of The Lodge Of Glasgow St. John.

PRIORITY OF THE LODGE OF GLASGOW ST . JOHN .

TO THE EDITOR OE THE FREEMASONS * MAGAZINE AXD MASONIC MIRROR . Dear Sir and Brother , —It was quite refreshing to read in the Magazine , page 5 . 1 , the kind letter of " J . A . " on this subject , and the way he takes to help on the cause—Truth first—Priority to follow . As " J . A . " says , " such rapid and wholesale disposal of charters

" (?) " will hardly satisfy reflecting minds . " I can fancy the following change being rung on a well-known couplet : — Let hisfry , learning , truth , and honour die , But let our legends and old charters lie . Quite right" J . A . " it is too hadthis wholesale

, , , slaughter of the innocents ; poor things , they have been languishing sadly this some time back , and I was lately told that some of them were even dead . Such being the case , we ought , in all honour to their royal descent , to bury them decently ; and that nothing

Priority Of The Lodge Of Glasgow St. John.

may hereafter disturb their peaceful rest , I contribute the following loving epitaph to their memory , which "J . A . " will perhaps kindly favour me by seeing duly carved upon their tomb , my own feelings precluding me from the mournful task ; and in the performance of this paternal duty the heart of " J . A . " may be

somewhat soothed , t quote from Professor Innes : — " Our first corporate charters were to burghs , and not till long after came those to the guilds aud corporations within and uuder burghs ; but there are no charters to burghs till William the Lion . So you see it did not need much sagacity to stamp the

charter of Malcolm—full of the phraseology and minute distinctions of a much later day—as a forgery . " Requiescafc—let the forgeries rest—and thanks be to all who have in any way assisted in their downfall-More especially am I indebted to Professor Innes for the very kind and courteous manner in which he responded to my inquiries regarding the Malcolm writ * as well as other matters of a different stamp .

I am also indebted to Mr . A . D . Robertson , Glasgow ( who in any ecclesiological inquiry can bring tohear upon the subject what it is said few Scotchmen possess , viz ., his knowledge of heraldry ) , for very kindly giving me a few hints and lessons in archeology and ecclesiology , which I hope I may be enabled to follow

up ; and if I have not hitherto quite so correctly rendered the information I have received that is my fault , not theirs , and I aloue am responsible . I believe the true path to finding out the real origin and history of Ereemasonry in Scotland is to be taken in connection with the proper study of these subjects ..

Which . Ereemasonry existed in England amongst the building fraternities , who , after the treaty between William the Lion and Richard Cceur de Lion ( 1189 ) , spread into Scotland , and it was probably owing to the first income of these into his diocese that Jocelyn obtained our 1190 charterregarding which I beg to

, differ from " R . Y ., " and assert that it was a genuine charter ( relying upon the opinion of the first chartologists of the day ) , given , I consider , to real operative Masons—to the men who were to do the stone and lime work , as well as to those who were to collect ;

money for the building of the fabric , who , of course , did not require to be operatives . But of course if " II . Y . " can show me that he can make good his assertion that " it has no connection with Ereemasonry , " although genuine otherwise , then I yield at once ; but I have no respect for a mere dogmatical assertionespecially from an unknown hand ; ifc is

, the demonstration I value . In striving to get at the consistency of truth there is no " servility" in acknowledging error . As Thomas Carlyle said , " there is precious instruction to be got by finding we are wrong . Let a man try faithfully ,, manfully to be righthe will daily more and

, grow more right . " This matter has uow taken a wider field than was at first expected ; it comes now to be not merely whether was St . John ' s or Kilwinning the first ? bufc what was the true origin of Masonry in Scotland .: Our Glasgow Malcolm date is nonsenseso is the

, 1140 date or legend of Kilwinning , and the Melrose and John Muruo , 1136 , likewise . It will hardly do to tell us that our twelfth century Masons came from Cologne , seeing that in the beginning of the thirteenth century the Gothic style

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