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  • The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine
  • Oct. 25, 1862
  • Page 10
  • CORRESPONDENCE.
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The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine, Oct. 25, 1862: Page 10

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    Article MASONIC NOTES AND QUERIES. ← Page 2 of 2
    Article CORRESPONDENCE. Page 1 of 1
    Article THE QUESTION OF CERTIFICATES. Page 1 of 2 →
Page 10

Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.

Masonic Notes And Queries.

a brother , the fondest enthusiast for the amelioration of the human race can scarcely dream of a condition of society , to which the enforcement of the obligation of brotherly love , relief , and truth can be inapplicable , or otherwise than a blessing ; and I glory in the conviction , that Masonry was never more extended , triumphant , and influential than at the present moment . " ANTIQUITY 01 ? THE EOSE CIIOIX DEGEEE .

"What is the date of the foundation of the Eose Croix degree , and is it of real antiquity ?—R . A . —[ Its introduction into England is coeval with Christianity . About A . D . 1314 it Avas Avell known in this country . ] MASONIC APEON . From an American paper tbe folloAving is taken -. — " "We are in possession of a Masonic apron that was Avorn at

the coronation of the Prince of "Wales as George IV ., King of England . It is a lamb skin , of Royal Arch Symbology , trimmed with blue and scarlet , ancl the triple taw cross near its top worked in silver lace . It Avas presented to us ( the Editor ) by an English lady ivhose father , Bro . John Holmes , of "West-street , Sheffield , Yorkshire , England , wore it on the occasion alluded to above . " I don't know the name of the paper from which the extract is made , bub I should like to knoiv why Bro . Holmes wore the apron , and where he did so ?—K .

PllENCII LODOE OFFICIALS . Is there any peculiarity with respect to the officers in French lodges ?—A TEAVELLEE . —[ Yes : both "Wardens are placed in the west , according to the old English custom . There are no Deacons , but in place of them IAVO Masters of Ceremonies who wear a scarf around the left arm . One year must elapse between each degree being taken , unless special permission is received from the Supreme Council ]

WHIMSICALITY" OF A . AIERICAN MASOKTC J-OUKJ . * ALISJI . As a specimen of the humour indulged by our brethren iu America in their Masonic journals , the specimen selected below may , perhaps , raise a good-humoured smile amongst some of the readers of Notes and Queries . If it tends to do so , no one will be more pleased than—Ex . Ex .

" MATEIMONY versus TEMELAEISM . " Those readers who are at all posted in the rules of tbe Ancient Knight Templars know there is a clause ivhich runs thus : ' A Knight shall not kiss a Avoman , no matter whether she be a mother , daughter , sister , or wife , for Ave havo knoivn many men fall away after doing this . ' "We know , to our sorrow , how this paragraph

exercised us . Kisses are forbidden luxuries . Bowed doivn with grief at the knowledge we had been indulging in , to our mind , such innocent recreations , we wrote a penitent letter to the sage W . B . Hubbard , S . G . M ., confessing our sin . The sage warrior aud counsellor , in answer , says : 'As we had grievously offended , but had acknoAvleclgod our crime with becoming penitence , we should receive

absolution ; but remember St . Bernard , thanks to his forgetfulness , had not propounded a rule that a Knight should not receive kisses , if they were offered becomingly , and he Avould not bo offended thereat . We aro compelled to record , with a clue sense of the dignity of the Order , that St . Bernard made a fatal error in not inserting a clause that a Kniht should not receive kisses . '

g One of the most stalwart Knights of Temple Commandery has been assaulted and compelled to succumb . The Chronicle says he fought manfully , and burled back tbe kisses he received with force aud vigour , but ivas finally defeated , being in ' extremes . ' Rescue or no rescue , he entered a bond , and signed it . Binding himself to kiss a certain woman Avhom his captor should name for the

term of her natural life , pledging himself ho will not go away from his bond . The compact reads thus .- Mr . and Mrs . John A . Goeway . J . A .. Goewey ? Tuesday Morninp , Dec . 15 , at M . M . Bond , j' No . 9 , Portland Place , Worcester , Mass . In the words of an ancient Grand Master , Ave eau only say , ' Laisser Aller Eesurgam . '"

Correspondence.

CORRESPONDENCE .

The Editor is not responsible for the opinions expressed by Correspondents . KNIGHTS TEMPLAR . IO THE EDITOR OF THK FltEEMASONs' MAGAZINE AND MASONIC MIEHOH . DEAE SIE ASD BEOTIIEE , — "Would you again permit me a few hasty remarks on this subject ? First , as toBro . Dunckerley and the Commandership of the Chivalric and Masonic Order of tho Temple . "Was

be installed a Knight at York , Bristol , or London ? In Manchester Ave find an Atbol Lodge ( Virtue , 177 ) obtaining from Mm , though a modern Mason , in 1795 , a charter for the chivalric degrees ; ancl whence arose the necessity , Avhen their warrant authorised them to confer all degrees , up to 1813 ? Again , Bro . Preston gives us , in many respects , an

excellent history of Craft or "Working Freemasonry in the South , and states that from 1485 till the period of the Reformation it Avas under the patronage of the Knights of Malta ; but he carefully avoids * allusion to any connection between it and the Free and Accepted Masons ot York , and there is no evidence that this Maltese Freebefore 1717 Avas in any way identical with

masonry , , York Templary , but the reverse . They ivere quite unconnected , dissimilar , and organised for different objects . Then , again , as to the Templar K . D . S . H . If " Scrutator " can find any early evidence of its having been a " Masonic" degree , it is more than I can . It appears , half a century or more ago , to have beeu entirely chivalric , and to have held precisely the same relation to the

chivalric degrees as the Arch , or Sanhedrim , does to Eastern Masonry , and was styled a " Grand Cross Council of the Order of K . D . S . H . " Is it not the real Order of the Temple obtained by the Maltese Encampments , together ivith the Rose Croix , from the York Masons , or is it possible these latter obtained these degrees , or either of them , from the Continental Rosicrncians , who were

another variety of Templars ? The Rose Croix is , ancl claims to be , the perfection of Masonry , and is very similar , omitting the Knightly profession , to tbe present Templar Order . Again , I do not belieA'e Bro . Lyon can find any evidence that their Masonic Templars were connected originallAvith their Order of the Temple and St . John . Is

y tho former not English Templary ? Lastly , did not the Duke of Sussex , in accepting the office of Grand Prior , after his installation as Grand Master of England , ackuowledge the supremacy of the French Order , and do their statutes of 1705 allude to the Grades they now possess ? As a K . C . T . and a member of the A . and A . R . I appeal

, , to my brothers Avhether it Avould not bo better to recognise the whole as R . A ., R . O ., K . T ., K . C , and G . C , allowing the Council of Rites the privilege of granting ad warrants above the Royal Arch degree ? I remain , dear Sir and Brother , yours fraternally , J _ T . Y .

The Question Of Certificates.

THE QUESTION OF CERTIFICATES .

TO THE JEJDITOB OF THE FREEMASONS MAGAZINE AND . MASOXIC MIKH 01 :. DEAE SIE AUD BEOTIIEE , —It was in tbe first days of this month that I left Holland for the purpose of assisting at a scientific congress , held in the old city of Bruges . Once being there , and my business over , I thought I could as well go back by England and visit the Exhibition , and so I did . I arrived at London on Thursday night , and on the folloAving day , being the in

12 th , my first visit Avas to you , in order to get some _ - formation I wanted about Masonic affairs . Not having found yon , either at your residence or at your office , I went to the Grand Secretary ' s office , where I heard that , on that same evening , at seven o ' clock , a Lodge of Instruction Avas to be held at the Freemasons' Hall by the Emulation Lodge . "Well , it is the duty of a Mason never to omit an opportunity of joining the labour of his brethren ; and having by chance taken my Masonic clothing with me , I resolved to arrange everything in

“The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine: 1862-10-25, Page 10” Masonic Periodicals Online, Library and Museum of Freemasonry, 14 July 2025, django:8000/periodicals/mmr/issues/mmr_25101862/page/10/.
  • List
  • Grid
Title Category Page
MY STARS AND GARTERS. Article 1
OUR MASONIC CONTEMPORARIES. Article 1
BRITISH ACHITECTS.—NEW MATERIALS FOR THEIR LIVES. Article 3
THE QUEEN'S CROSS, NORTHAMPTON* Article 5
PARIS OF TO-DAY. Article 8
MASONIC NOTES AND QUERIES. Article 9
CORRESPONDENCE. Article 10
THE QUESTION OF CERTIFICATES. Article 10
THE MASONIC MIRROR. Article 12
METROPOLITAN. Article 12
PROVINCIAL. Article 13
AUSTRALIA. Article 14
ROYAL ARCH. Article 16
ANCIENT AND ACCEPTED RITE. Article 16
MARK MASONRY. Article 17
Poetry. Article 18
Obituary. Article 18
THE WEEK. Article 18
TO CORRESPONDENTS. Article 20
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Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.

Masonic Notes And Queries.

a brother , the fondest enthusiast for the amelioration of the human race can scarcely dream of a condition of society , to which the enforcement of the obligation of brotherly love , relief , and truth can be inapplicable , or otherwise than a blessing ; and I glory in the conviction , that Masonry was never more extended , triumphant , and influential than at the present moment . " ANTIQUITY 01 ? THE EOSE CIIOIX DEGEEE .

"What is the date of the foundation of the Eose Croix degree , and is it of real antiquity ?—R . A . —[ Its introduction into England is coeval with Christianity . About A . D . 1314 it Avas Avell known in this country . ] MASONIC APEON . From an American paper tbe folloAving is taken -. — " "We are in possession of a Masonic apron that was Avorn at

the coronation of the Prince of "Wales as George IV ., King of England . It is a lamb skin , of Royal Arch Symbology , trimmed with blue and scarlet , ancl the triple taw cross near its top worked in silver lace . It Avas presented to us ( the Editor ) by an English lady ivhose father , Bro . John Holmes , of "West-street , Sheffield , Yorkshire , England , wore it on the occasion alluded to above . " I don't know the name of the paper from which the extract is made , bub I should like to knoiv why Bro . Holmes wore the apron , and where he did so ?—K .

PllENCII LODOE OFFICIALS . Is there any peculiarity with respect to the officers in French lodges ?—A TEAVELLEE . —[ Yes : both "Wardens are placed in the west , according to the old English custom . There are no Deacons , but in place of them IAVO Masters of Ceremonies who wear a scarf around the left arm . One year must elapse between each degree being taken , unless special permission is received from the Supreme Council ]

WHIMSICALITY" OF A . AIERICAN MASOKTC J-OUKJ . * ALISJI . As a specimen of the humour indulged by our brethren iu America in their Masonic journals , the specimen selected below may , perhaps , raise a good-humoured smile amongst some of the readers of Notes and Queries . If it tends to do so , no one will be more pleased than—Ex . Ex .

" MATEIMONY versus TEMELAEISM . " Those readers who are at all posted in the rules of tbe Ancient Knight Templars know there is a clause ivhich runs thus : ' A Knight shall not kiss a Avoman , no matter whether she be a mother , daughter , sister , or wife , for Ave havo knoivn many men fall away after doing this . ' "We know , to our sorrow , how this paragraph

exercised us . Kisses are forbidden luxuries . Bowed doivn with grief at the knowledge we had been indulging in , to our mind , such innocent recreations , we wrote a penitent letter to the sage W . B . Hubbard , S . G . M ., confessing our sin . The sage warrior aud counsellor , in answer , says : 'As we had grievously offended , but had acknoAvleclgod our crime with becoming penitence , we should receive

absolution ; but remember St . Bernard , thanks to his forgetfulness , had not propounded a rule that a Knight should not receive kisses , if they were offered becomingly , and he Avould not bo offended thereat . We aro compelled to record , with a clue sense of the dignity of the Order , that St . Bernard made a fatal error in not inserting a clause that a Kniht should not receive kisses . '

g One of the most stalwart Knights of Temple Commandery has been assaulted and compelled to succumb . The Chronicle says he fought manfully , and burled back tbe kisses he received with force aud vigour , but ivas finally defeated , being in ' extremes . ' Rescue or no rescue , he entered a bond , and signed it . Binding himself to kiss a certain woman Avhom his captor should name for the

term of her natural life , pledging himself ho will not go away from his bond . The compact reads thus .- Mr . and Mrs . John A . Goeway . J . A .. Goewey ? Tuesday Morninp , Dec . 15 , at M . M . Bond , j' No . 9 , Portland Place , Worcester , Mass . In the words of an ancient Grand Master , Ave eau only say , ' Laisser Aller Eesurgam . '"

Correspondence.

CORRESPONDENCE .

The Editor is not responsible for the opinions expressed by Correspondents . KNIGHTS TEMPLAR . IO THE EDITOR OF THK FltEEMASONs' MAGAZINE AND MASONIC MIEHOH . DEAE SIE ASD BEOTIIEE , — "Would you again permit me a few hasty remarks on this subject ? First , as toBro . Dunckerley and the Commandership of the Chivalric and Masonic Order of tho Temple . "Was

be installed a Knight at York , Bristol , or London ? In Manchester Ave find an Atbol Lodge ( Virtue , 177 ) obtaining from Mm , though a modern Mason , in 1795 , a charter for the chivalric degrees ; ancl whence arose the necessity , Avhen their warrant authorised them to confer all degrees , up to 1813 ? Again , Bro . Preston gives us , in many respects , an

excellent history of Craft or "Working Freemasonry in the South , and states that from 1485 till the period of the Reformation it Avas under the patronage of the Knights of Malta ; but he carefully avoids * allusion to any connection between it and the Free and Accepted Masons ot York , and there is no evidence that this Maltese Freebefore 1717 Avas in any way identical with

masonry , , York Templary , but the reverse . They ivere quite unconnected , dissimilar , and organised for different objects . Then , again , as to the Templar K . D . S . H . If " Scrutator " can find any early evidence of its having been a " Masonic" degree , it is more than I can . It appears , half a century or more ago , to have beeu entirely chivalric , and to have held precisely the same relation to the

chivalric degrees as the Arch , or Sanhedrim , does to Eastern Masonry , and was styled a " Grand Cross Council of the Order of K . D . S . H . " Is it not the real Order of the Temple obtained by the Maltese Encampments , together ivith the Rose Croix , from the York Masons , or is it possible these latter obtained these degrees , or either of them , from the Continental Rosicrncians , who were

another variety of Templars ? The Rose Croix is , ancl claims to be , the perfection of Masonry , and is very similar , omitting the Knightly profession , to tbe present Templar Order . Again , I do not belieA'e Bro . Lyon can find any evidence that their Masonic Templars were connected originallAvith their Order of the Temple and St . John . Is

y tho former not English Templary ? Lastly , did not the Duke of Sussex , in accepting the office of Grand Prior , after his installation as Grand Master of England , ackuowledge the supremacy of the French Order , and do their statutes of 1705 allude to the Grades they now possess ? As a K . C . T . and a member of the A . and A . R . I appeal

, , to my brothers Avhether it Avould not bo better to recognise the whole as R . A ., R . O ., K . T ., K . C , and G . C , allowing the Council of Rites the privilege of granting ad warrants above the Royal Arch degree ? I remain , dear Sir and Brother , yours fraternally , J _ T . Y .

The Question Of Certificates.

THE QUESTION OF CERTIFICATES .

TO THE JEJDITOB OF THE FREEMASONS MAGAZINE AND . MASOXIC MIKH 01 :. DEAE SIE AUD BEOTIIEE , —It was in tbe first days of this month that I left Holland for the purpose of assisting at a scientific congress , held in the old city of Bruges . Once being there , and my business over , I thought I could as well go back by England and visit the Exhibition , and so I did . I arrived at London on Thursday night , and on the folloAving day , being the in

12 th , my first visit Avas to you , in order to get some _ - formation I wanted about Masonic affairs . Not having found yon , either at your residence or at your office , I went to the Grand Secretary ' s office , where I heard that , on that same evening , at seven o ' clock , a Lodge of Instruction Avas to be held at the Freemasons' Hall by the Emulation Lodge . "Well , it is the duty of a Mason never to omit an opportunity of joining the labour of his brethren ; and having by chance taken my Masonic clothing with me , I resolved to arrange everything in

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