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  • March 26, 1870
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  • MASONIC NOTES AND QUERIES.
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The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine, March 26, 1870: Page 8

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Masonic Notes And Queries.

MASONIC NOTES AND QUERIES .

EEEEMASONEY . At page 123 of " Notes and Queries , " for January 29 th , 1870 , I read as follows . — " ' Gower and his pupil Chaucer were both Knight Templar . Freemasons . " _ I challenge that statement , and consider it purelimaginary . Knihts Templar were often forced

y g to become burgesses of a city or burgh in order to have liberty to trade ; hut they did not therefore also join tbe Masonic Craft , so as to learn to be able to work as masons . Again , in the Magazine for June 25 th , 1 S 64 , page , 507 , I read , "We can show you some startling passages , which are either pure

Freemasonry or pure nonsense . They occur in a work written and printed in 1492 . " Yevy good : quote them by all means ; we are quite eager to undergo this startling sensation . At present , we can only speculate as to the sort of effect that will be produced . If the effect be both pleasing and powerful , it is too bad to make

a Masonic celestial mystery of it . However , Avhether nonsense or not , we are at present rather shy of believing they make any reference to our S peculative Freemasonry , whatever they may have to Operative Masonry , although there may be accidentally ideas common to both . — " W . P . BBCIIAN .

LESSING , WIELAND , GOETHE . I congratulate a Brother upon his possession of of the twenty-one volumes of the Freemason ' s Magazine , but I cannot conscientiousl y congratulate him upon having , as yet , made much use of them . If he had but turned over the leaves , he would not still be ignorant that Lessing , Wieland , and Goethe were

Freemasons . —CHAELES PUETON COOPEE . MASONS OP ENGLAND AND THEIE WOEKS . In the Magav . ine for August IGlh , 23 rd , and SOth , also September Gth , 1 SG 2 , will be found a long and very interesting article upon the above subject by Mr . Wyatt Papworth . Although not agreeing with his definition of Free-mason , yet his paper is hi ghly worthy of careful perusal . —W . P . B .

THE GEEilAN T 1 IE 0 EY . See the Jotting thus entitled , p . 107 of the present volume . Many years ago I was told that sufficient and reasonabl y correct information respecting the German Theory might be got from Masonic periodicals . I La \ e here recorded my experience that this is not the

case . The only articles affording intelli gible information respecting the German Theory that I have any recollection to have seen in Masonic periodicals , are two articles in the present series of the Freemason ' s Magazine—the one , Masonic History , vol . vii .. 421 theotherlteview oi Brother Findel '

, p ; . , s book , voJ . xiv ., p . 134 . Considering all circumstances , and especially the small support which the Freemason ' s ' Magazine receives irom the Craft—small in comparison with whafcitoughtto he—it would be unjust to complain il ' inore that is elucidatory of the German Theory has not yet appeared . —A PAST PEOVINCIAL

trEAND MASTEB . TIIE 1744 D ' ASSIGNT . This , in my opinion is an evident get-up by Bro . Hughan to distinguish himself . The iact of a similar passage appearing in a lruch later work by Dermott is a pi col of the forgery . —LEO SECONDUS .

Masonic Notes And Queries.

SOLOMON S TEMPLE AND EOYAL AECH MASONS . At page 218 I read as follows , viz .: — " As to the perfect model of architecture , the temple of Solomon . " Now , I consider that idea to be a mistake , for the temple of Solomon could no more compare with the Parthenon as a " perfect model of architecture" than the ideas and worship connected with the latter could compare with those of the former . Give honour where it is due . — " W . P . B .

OBDEE 03 ? THE TEMPLE AND EOSY OEOSS . My time will not allow of my extracting the necessary matter for your readers on the hearing of the Templar Order upon the Masonic institution , or , still less , that of the Bosicrucians ; and I must therefore decline replying to the unfraternal attacks upon my own

particular opinions , especially as the minds of my detractors seem illogically warped by theirevidentleaning to views of the bitter opponents of anything beyond Craft Masonry . As , therefore , I question their partiality , I would merely point out that even early last century there seems to have been opposing rites , and

that high grade tradition informs us that in the 17 thcentury both theTemplarsandEosicruciansadopted the media of CraftMasonry to continue their ceremoniesand opinions , and admittingthis , as shown by the "Ancient Grand Lodges , used the Masonic general assemblies for that purpose , and that the mere admission of

ignorance by any particular brother is neither a proof of Ms wisdom nor of the falsity of these traditions ; and the more especially as , to my derived knowledge ,, many of the hi gh grades refused to take minutes of proceedings , fearing they might fall into improperbands , which would certainly have been the case ,

conpled also with the fact of the destruction of existing records from the same cause . Brethren who honestly wish for information can examine the matter for themselves by joining the higher degrees , instituting a comparison betwixt them , and perusing the various works on the Gnostics , Templars , Cabalists , and Eosicrucians . I may , however , point out the following exoteric information as bearing upon the esoteric Masonic and chivalric traditions : —

1 . Flte charier of Transmission of the French Ordredn-Temple . The signature of Phili p of Orleans in 1705 has been authenticated , and also that of James-Henry de Durefort , Due de Duras , 1681 , by the late-Dr . Morison . Now the tradition of English Templary points to the Scottish Order . Dr . M ., however , though certain of the correctness of the signature of

the Due de Duras , declines to pledge himself to an authentic history beyond 1705 , Avhich is the date assigned by members of the Order for the forgery of the charter ; hut it has also been pointed out to me , that though James Henry de Durefort had been created Duke in 16 S 0 , yet he did not pay his fees and

take out his patent until 1 GS 6 . In fact , everything points to 1705 , and this charter specially anathematises the Scottish Templars with their brethren of St . John of Jerusalem , which the French Ordre-du-Temple Avould never have gone out of its way to do , had there not been such a Scottish Orderwith claims

, superior to their own . But , further , the charter alludes to an alteration of signs and words , to distinguish themselves ; and it is scarcely likely there ivould havebeen any signsuntilai ' tertheconnectionoi ' tbeTemplars with the Masonic institution , besides Avhich , the

“The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine: 1870-03-26, Page 8” Masonic Periodicals Online, Library and Museum of Freemasonry, 24 June 2025, django:8000/periodicals/mmr/issues/mmr_26031870/page/8/.
  • List
  • Grid
Title Category Page
Untitled Article 1
ROMAN CATHOLIC INTOLERANCE. Article 1
WHAT MASONRY GAINS BY BEING BASED ON CHRISTIANITY, Article 3
LODGE MINUTES, ETC.—No. 11. Article 4
THE MASONIC STUDENT. Article 5
MASONIC INSCRIPTIONS UPON PUBLIC BUILDINGS. Article 6
MASONIC JOTTINGS.—No. 12. Article 7
MASONIC NOTES AND QUERIES. Article 8
CORRESPONDENCE. Article 10
Untitled Article 12
MASONIC MEMS Article 12
Craft Masonry. Article 12
SCOTTISH CONSTITUTION. Article 17
ROYAL ARCH. Article 17
MARK MASONRY. Article 19
KNIGHTS TEMPLAR. Article 19
OBSTACLES TO MASONIC LIGHT. Article 19
THE GRAND MASONIC TEMPLE FOR NEW YORK. Article 19
Poetry. Article 20
SCIENTIFIC MEETINGS FOR THE WEEK. Article 20
LIST OF LODGE, MEETINGS, &c., FOR WEEK ENDING 2ND APRIL, 1870. Article 20
METROPOLITAN LODGES AND CHAPTERS OF INSTRUCTION. Article 20
TO CORRESPONDENTS Article 20
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Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.

Masonic Notes And Queries.

MASONIC NOTES AND QUERIES .

EEEEMASONEY . At page 123 of " Notes and Queries , " for January 29 th , 1870 , I read as follows . — " ' Gower and his pupil Chaucer were both Knight Templar . Freemasons . " _ I challenge that statement , and consider it purelimaginary . Knihts Templar were often forced

y g to become burgesses of a city or burgh in order to have liberty to trade ; hut they did not therefore also join tbe Masonic Craft , so as to learn to be able to work as masons . Again , in the Magazine for June 25 th , 1 S 64 , page , 507 , I read , "We can show you some startling passages , which are either pure

Freemasonry or pure nonsense . They occur in a work written and printed in 1492 . " Yevy good : quote them by all means ; we are quite eager to undergo this startling sensation . At present , we can only speculate as to the sort of effect that will be produced . If the effect be both pleasing and powerful , it is too bad to make

a Masonic celestial mystery of it . However , Avhether nonsense or not , we are at present rather shy of believing they make any reference to our S peculative Freemasonry , whatever they may have to Operative Masonry , although there may be accidentally ideas common to both . — " W . P . BBCIIAN .

LESSING , WIELAND , GOETHE . I congratulate a Brother upon his possession of of the twenty-one volumes of the Freemason ' s Magazine , but I cannot conscientiousl y congratulate him upon having , as yet , made much use of them . If he had but turned over the leaves , he would not still be ignorant that Lessing , Wieland , and Goethe were

Freemasons . —CHAELES PUETON COOPEE . MASONS OP ENGLAND AND THEIE WOEKS . In the Magav . ine for August IGlh , 23 rd , and SOth , also September Gth , 1 SG 2 , will be found a long and very interesting article upon the above subject by Mr . Wyatt Papworth . Although not agreeing with his definition of Free-mason , yet his paper is hi ghly worthy of careful perusal . —W . P . B .

THE GEEilAN T 1 IE 0 EY . See the Jotting thus entitled , p . 107 of the present volume . Many years ago I was told that sufficient and reasonabl y correct information respecting the German Theory might be got from Masonic periodicals . I La \ e here recorded my experience that this is not the

case . The only articles affording intelli gible information respecting the German Theory that I have any recollection to have seen in Masonic periodicals , are two articles in the present series of the Freemason ' s Magazine—the one , Masonic History , vol . vii .. 421 theotherlteview oi Brother Findel '

, p ; . , s book , voJ . xiv ., p . 134 . Considering all circumstances , and especially the small support which the Freemason ' s ' Magazine receives irom the Craft—small in comparison with whafcitoughtto he—it would be unjust to complain il ' inore that is elucidatory of the German Theory has not yet appeared . —A PAST PEOVINCIAL

trEAND MASTEB . TIIE 1744 D ' ASSIGNT . This , in my opinion is an evident get-up by Bro . Hughan to distinguish himself . The iact of a similar passage appearing in a lruch later work by Dermott is a pi col of the forgery . —LEO SECONDUS .

Masonic Notes And Queries.

SOLOMON S TEMPLE AND EOYAL AECH MASONS . At page 218 I read as follows , viz .: — " As to the perfect model of architecture , the temple of Solomon . " Now , I consider that idea to be a mistake , for the temple of Solomon could no more compare with the Parthenon as a " perfect model of architecture" than the ideas and worship connected with the latter could compare with those of the former . Give honour where it is due . — " W . P . B .

OBDEE 03 ? THE TEMPLE AND EOSY OEOSS . My time will not allow of my extracting the necessary matter for your readers on the hearing of the Templar Order upon the Masonic institution , or , still less , that of the Bosicrucians ; and I must therefore decline replying to the unfraternal attacks upon my own

particular opinions , especially as the minds of my detractors seem illogically warped by theirevidentleaning to views of the bitter opponents of anything beyond Craft Masonry . As , therefore , I question their partiality , I would merely point out that even early last century there seems to have been opposing rites , and

that high grade tradition informs us that in the 17 thcentury both theTemplarsandEosicruciansadopted the media of CraftMasonry to continue their ceremoniesand opinions , and admittingthis , as shown by the "Ancient Grand Lodges , used the Masonic general assemblies for that purpose , and that the mere admission of

ignorance by any particular brother is neither a proof of Ms wisdom nor of the falsity of these traditions ; and the more especially as , to my derived knowledge ,, many of the hi gh grades refused to take minutes of proceedings , fearing they might fall into improperbands , which would certainly have been the case ,

conpled also with the fact of the destruction of existing records from the same cause . Brethren who honestly wish for information can examine the matter for themselves by joining the higher degrees , instituting a comparison betwixt them , and perusing the various works on the Gnostics , Templars , Cabalists , and Eosicrucians . I may , however , point out the following exoteric information as bearing upon the esoteric Masonic and chivalric traditions : —

1 . Flte charier of Transmission of the French Ordredn-Temple . The signature of Phili p of Orleans in 1705 has been authenticated , and also that of James-Henry de Durefort , Due de Duras , 1681 , by the late-Dr . Morison . Now the tradition of English Templary points to the Scottish Order . Dr . M ., however , though certain of the correctness of the signature of

the Due de Duras , declines to pledge himself to an authentic history beyond 1705 , Avhich is the date assigned by members of the Order for the forgery of the charter ; hut it has also been pointed out to me , that though James Henry de Durefort had been created Duke in 16 S 0 , yet he did not pay his fees and

take out his patent until 1 GS 6 . In fact , everything points to 1705 , and this charter specially anathematises the Scottish Templars with their brethren of St . John of Jerusalem , which the French Ordre-du-Temple Avould never have gone out of its way to do , had there not been such a Scottish Orderwith claims

, superior to their own . But , further , the charter alludes to an alteration of signs and words , to distinguish themselves ; and it is scarcely likely there ivould havebeen any signsuntilai ' tertheconnectionoi ' tbeTemplars with the Masonic institution , besides Avhich , the

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