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  • Aug. 26, 1871
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The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine, Aug. 26, 1871: Page 9

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Correspondence.

CORRESPONDENCE .

The Editor ie not responsible for the opinion * expressed by Correspondents SLOANE MS : No . 3329 , EOL . 142 ; FORMERLY EOL . 102 . 10 THE EDITOB OF THE EEEEMASON ' MAGAZINE AND MASONIC inHEOB . Dear Sir and Brother , —Through the kindness of

Bro . W . J . Hughan , I have heen favoured with the reading of a copy ( which he had procured at considerable expense ) , of this very interesting Masonic MS . Bro . Eindel , at page 666 , appendix 0 , of the second ¦ edition of his " History of Freemasonry , " gives a copy of the latter half of it , which agrees with Bro . Hughan ' sexcept m some of the spelling . Owing to

, its contents , this MS . is of the greatest interest to Masonic students , more especially if it could be proved that it existed in the seventeenth century , and before 1717 . Of this , however , I am very doubtful ; as , so far as I can judge as yet , this Sloane MS . No . 3329 fol . 142 is no older than about A . D .

, , 1720 , whateverjater . No doubt Bro . Eindel , at page 118 of his history , inclines to put it afc the end of the seventeenth century ; and Bro . Hughan , at page 25 of his " Unpublished Records of the Craft , " while stating its age as doubtful , places ifc between " 1640 to 1700 . " Tetthe former has brought nothing forward

as yet , to support his idea properly , while the latter , at the very same place where he gives its age as " 1600 to 1700 , " also quotes good evidence which goes to prove it to be more modern ,- for , while stating it that Mr . E . A . Bond and Mr . E . Sims agree that it is " prohahiy of the beginning of the

eighteenth century , " he also adds , " We are also informed by a gentleman , whose name has been honourably associated with the British Museum for years , that , as Sir Hans Sloane only " died in 1753 , the article on MS ., 3329 , might easily be of a date after 1717 . " Now with the above statements before himwh

, y Bro . Hughan should have given its age as between 1640 to 1700 , 1 cannot understand . It would have heen better and fairer , in my opinion , to have said 1640 to 1720 , which latter date I consider was only fairly due to the statements of the gentlemen I have above referred totwo of whom lace ifc afc the

begin-, p ning of the eighteenth century , while one says ifc may easily he after 1717 . In writing to me some time ago about the age of this MS ., Mr . Bond said : — " My opinion is that the paper on Ereemasonry is of about the year 1710 , hut I see no certain evidence , and I judge by general character of the writing . " Now as

Mr . Bond only judges from the writing , ifc appears to me that we must allow a few years to come and go upon . Eor , if a man , 35 years of age , wrote in this style in 1710 , 1 ask— "What difference , if any , would there be in the style of his writing in 1720 ? Very little , if any , I consider , for a stranger especially , to judge hy . Under the above circumstances , therelore ^ and for other reasons , I must give it as my opinion that this document cannot he allowed to he

done so at once , more especially as ifc is nearly impossible for many brethren situated as they are to visit the British Museum personally . I am , yours fraternally , W . P- BUCHAN .

THE INITIATION EEE . TO TIIE EDITOE OE THE TEEEMASONS' MAGAZINE AND MASONIC MIEEOR . Dear Sir and Brother , —If some expert London Brother could be induced to look up the different editions of the Book of Constitutionswith a view to

, ascertain when first the present inmimun rate of three guineas for making a Mason was fixed , secondly , to calculate the increased value of money . Thirdly , to give notice to G-rand Lodge to increase the sum for making Masons in the same ratio , or if more advisableto increase the amount to ten guineas . I think

, he would deserve well of the Craft in general , and of the writer in particular . I am led to a consideration of this subject by the rapid increase of some of the Lodges in this locality , as I am dealing with principles , and not persons , I must decline to give nameshut can easily verif

, y every statement I make . I am w ell acquainted with the leading members of eighteen lodges in this im mediate neighbourhood , and I know , more or less nearly the whole of their members , which , hy the last returns were 943 . I make no allusion to what

a great proportion of this number ought to have remained , bufc 1 am quite sure , a large number of them ought never to have been made Masons ,, and would not have heen , if the fee had been ten guineas or more . As to the truths symbolised in the work of Masons they have no conception . I remember one case in point . A naval officer and a dairyman were

made Masons the same evening , and before leaving the lodge , the dairyman , wishing to put the principles to the test , solicited a berth on board the naval officer ' s ship . Another case . A boatman or waterman desired to be made ; he applied to one lodge , was refused ; applied to anotherwas blackballed ;

, sought for by the officers of another lodge , balloted for , accepted , initiated , passed aud raised , and on the following morning hoisted his Hag ( the square and compass ) at the mast-head and flaunted it in the faces of those who had rejected his first application . The keeper of a house of ill-repute made a similar

application to the last and was refused , bufc was ultimately taken into the same lodge with the boatman-One other case . A labourer , earning twelve shillings per week , suffering from heart disease , desired to be made a Mason . He applied to one lodge , was refused ; applied to anotheralso refused ; was ht

, soug after by the officers of another lodge , accepted , made , passed and raised . How long will ifc be before these men , or their families , or some of them will become claimants for our charities ? These remarks refer to one lodge alone , and one class of entrants . I necessaryI might increase the number of cases

, of a different character in other lodges , leading to worse evils , but prefer to confine myself to the one thafc can be met with afc the very threshold of Masonry . Tours fraternally , A WESTEEIT WARDEN .

pronounced any older than 1717 without the very best of real evidence to support ifc . I also think thafc Bro . Hughan would do well to publish ib , as , had the copy I have before me been my own , 1 would have

“The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine: 1871-08-26, Page 9” Masonic Periodicals Online, Library and Museum of Freemasonry, 21 June 2025, django:8000/periodicals/mmr/issues/mmr_26081871/page/9/.
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Title Category Page
Untitled Article 1
MUSIC AS A MASONIC ACCOMPLISHMENT. Article 1
THE KNIGHTS-ERRANT. Article 2
MASONIC JOTTINGS, No. 83. Article 3
MASONIC WORK AND PLAY. Article 4
MASONIC NOTES AND QUERIES. Article 5
THE KNIGHT TEMPLAR, PAST AND PRESENT: HIS MISSION AND ITS MODERN OBJECTS. Article 7
THEN AND NOW. Article 8
CORRESPONDENCE. Article 9
THE JEWEL OF THE GRAND PATRON OF THE ORDER IN IRELAND. Article 10
MASONIC MEMS. Article 11
GENERAL COMMITTEE OF GRAND LODGE AND LODGE OF BENEVOLENCE. Article 11
Craft Masonry. Article 12
PROVINCIAL. Article 13
CHANNEL ISLANDS. Article 17
AUSTRALIA. Article 17
SCOTLAND. Article 18
ROYAL ARCH. Article 18
KNIGHTS TEMPLAR. Article 18
MASONIC FESTIVITIES. Article 19
Poetry. Article 20
LIST OF LODGE MEETINGS &c., FOR WEEK ENDING SEPTEMBER 2ND , 1871. Article 20
METROPOLITAN LODGES AND CHAPTERS OF INSTRUCTION. Article 20
TO CORRESPONDENTS. Article 20
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Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.

Correspondence.

CORRESPONDENCE .

The Editor ie not responsible for the opinion * expressed by Correspondents SLOANE MS : No . 3329 , EOL . 142 ; FORMERLY EOL . 102 . 10 THE EDITOB OF THE EEEEMASON ' MAGAZINE AND MASONIC inHEOB . Dear Sir and Brother , —Through the kindness of

Bro . W . J . Hughan , I have heen favoured with the reading of a copy ( which he had procured at considerable expense ) , of this very interesting Masonic MS . Bro . Eindel , at page 666 , appendix 0 , of the second ¦ edition of his " History of Freemasonry , " gives a copy of the latter half of it , which agrees with Bro . Hughan ' sexcept m some of the spelling . Owing to

, its contents , this MS . is of the greatest interest to Masonic students , more especially if it could be proved that it existed in the seventeenth century , and before 1717 . Of this , however , I am very doubtful ; as , so far as I can judge as yet , this Sloane MS . No . 3329 fol . 142 is no older than about A . D .

, , 1720 , whateverjater . No doubt Bro . Eindel , at page 118 of his history , inclines to put it afc the end of the seventeenth century ; and Bro . Hughan , at page 25 of his " Unpublished Records of the Craft , " while stating its age as doubtful , places ifc between " 1640 to 1700 . " Tetthe former has brought nothing forward

as yet , to support his idea properly , while the latter , at the very same place where he gives its age as " 1600 to 1700 , " also quotes good evidence which goes to prove it to be more modern ,- for , while stating it that Mr . E . A . Bond and Mr . E . Sims agree that it is " prohahiy of the beginning of the

eighteenth century , " he also adds , " We are also informed by a gentleman , whose name has been honourably associated with the British Museum for years , that , as Sir Hans Sloane only " died in 1753 , the article on MS ., 3329 , might easily be of a date after 1717 . " Now with the above statements before himwh

, y Bro . Hughan should have given its age as between 1640 to 1700 , 1 cannot understand . It would have heen better and fairer , in my opinion , to have said 1640 to 1720 , which latter date I consider was only fairly due to the statements of the gentlemen I have above referred totwo of whom lace ifc afc the

begin-, p ning of the eighteenth century , while one says ifc may easily he after 1717 . In writing to me some time ago about the age of this MS ., Mr . Bond said : — " My opinion is that the paper on Ereemasonry is of about the year 1710 , hut I see no certain evidence , and I judge by general character of the writing . " Now as

Mr . Bond only judges from the writing , ifc appears to me that we must allow a few years to come and go upon . Eor , if a man , 35 years of age , wrote in this style in 1710 , 1 ask— "What difference , if any , would there be in the style of his writing in 1720 ? Very little , if any , I consider , for a stranger especially , to judge hy . Under the above circumstances , therelore ^ and for other reasons , I must give it as my opinion that this document cannot he allowed to he

done so at once , more especially as ifc is nearly impossible for many brethren situated as they are to visit the British Museum personally . I am , yours fraternally , W . P- BUCHAN .

THE INITIATION EEE . TO TIIE EDITOE OE THE TEEEMASONS' MAGAZINE AND MASONIC MIEEOR . Dear Sir and Brother , —If some expert London Brother could be induced to look up the different editions of the Book of Constitutionswith a view to

, ascertain when first the present inmimun rate of three guineas for making a Mason was fixed , secondly , to calculate the increased value of money . Thirdly , to give notice to G-rand Lodge to increase the sum for making Masons in the same ratio , or if more advisableto increase the amount to ten guineas . I think

, he would deserve well of the Craft in general , and of the writer in particular . I am led to a consideration of this subject by the rapid increase of some of the Lodges in this locality , as I am dealing with principles , and not persons , I must decline to give nameshut can easily verif

, y every statement I make . I am w ell acquainted with the leading members of eighteen lodges in this im mediate neighbourhood , and I know , more or less nearly the whole of their members , which , hy the last returns were 943 . I make no allusion to what

a great proportion of this number ought to have remained , bufc 1 am quite sure , a large number of them ought never to have been made Masons ,, and would not have heen , if the fee had been ten guineas or more . As to the truths symbolised in the work of Masons they have no conception . I remember one case in point . A naval officer and a dairyman were

made Masons the same evening , and before leaving the lodge , the dairyman , wishing to put the principles to the test , solicited a berth on board the naval officer ' s ship . Another case . A boatman or waterman desired to be made ; he applied to one lodge , was refused ; applied to anotherwas blackballed ;

, sought for by the officers of another lodge , balloted for , accepted , initiated , passed aud raised , and on the following morning hoisted his Hag ( the square and compass ) at the mast-head and flaunted it in the faces of those who had rejected his first application . The keeper of a house of ill-repute made a similar

application to the last and was refused , bufc was ultimately taken into the same lodge with the boatman-One other case . A labourer , earning twelve shillings per week , suffering from heart disease , desired to be made a Mason . He applied to one lodge , was refused ; applied to anotheralso refused ; was ht

, soug after by the officers of another lodge , accepted , made , passed and raised . How long will ifc be before these men , or their families , or some of them will become claimants for our charities ? These remarks refer to one lodge alone , and one class of entrants . I necessaryI might increase the number of cases

, of a different character in other lodges , leading to worse evils , but prefer to confine myself to the one thafc can be met with afc the very threshold of Masonry . Tours fraternally , A WESTEEIT WARDEN .

pronounced any older than 1717 without the very best of real evidence to support ifc . I also think thafc Bro . Hughan would do well to publish ib , as , had the copy I have before me been my own , 1 would have

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