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  • Feb. 27, 1869
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The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine, Feb. 27, 1869: Page 9

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    Article MASONIC NOTES AND QUERIES. ← Page 3 of 4 →
Page 9

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Masonic Notes And Queries.

of Mr . R . Phemister , wright , Edinburgh . ( New York and Boston , U . S ., papers please copy . )" I have attended a Masonic Funeral Lodge ; the Americans have a ceremony for a Masonic baptism ; but it is the first time I ever heard of a Masonic marriage ceremony . —CURIOUS .

[ Bro . Phemister , we understand , is the respected Secretary of the Lodge Journeymen . —ED . P . M . ] A MASONIC TnOUGIIT . We know not the names of the builders of the pyramids , but these immortal works , defying alike the tooth of timethe anger of the tempestancl the

de-, , vastating hand of man , rear their immortal heads to Heaven . What is it to us who built them ? What matters to its development , who puts a great idea into the world ? We see not ; we have never personally known God , but His worlss still proclaim that HE IS . —L . F .

RED CROSS OF CONSTANTINE . Does R . W . L . know anything of the Red Cross Degrees ? Has he ever heard of Babylon , and does he know the history of the degree upon which he claims to be an authority—the Cross of Constantine . He appears to be alike a poor student of history , as he is of modern Masonry , or he would know that the

Constantine Order among OLD MASONS has always been treated as a contemptible side degree . Lupus is correct . Who reall y is R . W . L . ?— -A RED CROSS KNIGHT .

R . W . L . asks if Lupus will state explicitly what other Red Cross Order than that { miscalled ) of Constantine " has for many years " been known in certain provinces . I may , -perhaps , be allowed to support Lupus so far as to state that I received admission into a Red Cross Order when I was installed a Templar . The brother who gave me the accolade

had been 50 years a Templar , and was Grand Master . I need hardly state , however , that the Red Cross Order was not the Order of Constantine , which is not recognised by the Grand Conclave nor any other grand body in the three kingdoms , so far as I know .

I must beg to contradict " R . W . L . " in his assertion that the Masonic Order of St . John has been revived within the past "four or five " years . The thanks of all true Red Cross Masons are clue to " Lupus " for his letters anent the Order of Constantine . —<&

[ We have had much reluctance in inserting these letters aud notes . Brethren should really think before they write . The discussion had better now close . — ED . P . M . ] CRLTX" ON MASONIC DISCIPLINE , I have with great leasure perused the valuable

p articles by " Crux ' ' on the above subject , and I trust his efforts will be productive of practical good . However , when he leaves his subject and indulges ( as he occasionally does ) in historical remarks , I must say he spoils himself ; and I beg most decidedly to dissent from several of his ideas . I do so becauseas

Pro-, fessor Iuues observes ( p . 120 ) , " we ought to " avoid fables and fabulous pretence of anti quity , " aud because , as Bro . W . J . Hughan wisely remarks ( p . 113 ) , "the ceremonies of the Order require neither trickery nor antiquity to secure their general appreciation ; '' and , further , because I consider that when "Crux "

attempt's to bring in such pseudo-historical remarks as I refer to , he is "going beyond his last . ' " ' Crux " is writing upon " Masonic Discipline , " aud well too ; but he deliberately spots his own sun . Among others , I object to this sentence , "The rites and ceremonies belonging to a fraternity coeval with the

creation of the firmament , are beyond all interrogatory jurisdiction . They stand above the reach of human inquisition . Like the will of the Omnipotent Creator ¦—immutable ancl eternal— -they come not within the narrow sphere of mundane criticism . The nature of their originancl the mystery of their creationare

, , lost in the oblivion of ages ; their secrets are not to be fathomed by the rules of logic nor by the wiles of sophistry . " With all due respect to " Crux , " the above quotation appears to me to be simply bosh , and highly calculated to injure us in the eyes of educated or thinking men . Imagine for a , moment the

meaning of the words that Freemasonry is " a fraternity coeval with the creation of the firmament ! " Again , to liken " the rites and ceremonies " to " the will of the Omnipotent ; Creator , " seems to me to border on blasphemy , "Crux" may not mean so ; but he should be more careful , knowing how our words and

acts are apt to be criticised . Again , at page 121 , " Crux " says there are P . M . ' s who " are as willing at any moment to get into the

chair as their Masonic predecessors were to get into the saddle . " From that sentence it appears to me that " Crux " believes in the modem story , or mushroom legend , of the Knights Templars being Freemasons , of which imagination or fable Bro . A . 0 . Haye fairly disposes when he says ( see Magazine for

May 23 rd , 1 S 6 S , page 411 ) : "There never was and there never has been , up till the end of tho 17 th or beginning of the 18 th century , any connection between the Templars and Freemasons ; " ancl , apart from that , I consider on other grounds that the idea of our " Masonic predecessors getting into tho saddle "

is simply , to saj r the least of it , a mistake . Imagine for a moment the idea of a member of one of tho old operative or building fraternities quietly working away at his stone ; mayhap it is only a plain ashlar which he is carefully squaring , or it may be some quaint device or woudrously-carved capital he is

engaged on . But , hark ! the trumpet sounds ! * * * * Down goes the mell and chisel , off goes apron , the fiery steed is brought out , ancl the worthy Mason being duly transformed pro tern , into Sir Knight McFreestono , sallies forth—a real Bayard—able and willing to encounter—like that doughty Knight , Sir

Don Quixote—any amount of windmills ! So much for our " Masonic predecessors getting into tho saddle . " It strikes me they would fool safer and more at home on terra iir . ua .

There are some historical ( r ) remarics ( page lo /) prefaced to a report of a meeting of the Prov . G . Lodge of Yorkshire West , which I would leave in the bands of some of our English Masonic scholars to deal with . —PICTUS .

THE FREEMASONS ( pp . 90 & 101 . Has the origin aud meaning of the word "Freemason , " as adopted by Arclusologists been explained in the columns of the Freaniutoiis Maya ~ i ; ie and , if so , where?—S . G .

“The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine: 1869-02-27, Page 9” Masonic Periodicals Online, Library and Museum of Freemasonry, 16 May 2025, django:8000/periodicals/mmr/issues/mmr_27021869/page/9/.
  • List
  • Grid
Title Category Page
MYSTICS AND MYSTICISM. No. II. Article 1
MASONIC PERSECUTION.—III. Article 2
THE KNIGHTS TEMPLARS. Article 2
CHAPTER XIV. Article 4
MASONIC NOTES AND QUERIES. Article 7
CORRESPONDENCE. Article 10
THE ORDERS OF THE RED CROSS OF ROME AND THE HOLY SEPULCHRE. Article 10
BROS. HAYE AND WHITE. Article 11
MASONIC IMPOSTORS. Article 11
Untitled Article 12
MASONIC MEMS. Article 12
GRAND LODGE OF ENGLAND. Article 12
METROPOLITAN. Article 13
PROVINCIAL. Article 15
SCOTLAND. Article 16
ISLE OF MAN. Article 16
ROYAL ARCH. Article 16
MARK MASONRY. Article 17
KNIGHTS TEMPLAR. Article 17
MASONIC FESTIVITIES. Article 18
GRIMSBY FULL DRESS MASONIC BALL. Article 18
DUBLIN MASONIC ORPHAN BOYS' SCHOOL. Article 19
MASONIC LIFEBOAT FUND. Article 19
Poetry. Article 19
MEETINGS OF THE LEARNED SOCIETIES. Article 19
TO CORRESPONDENTS. Article 20
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Masonic Notes And Queries.

of Mr . R . Phemister , wright , Edinburgh . ( New York and Boston , U . S ., papers please copy . )" I have attended a Masonic Funeral Lodge ; the Americans have a ceremony for a Masonic baptism ; but it is the first time I ever heard of a Masonic marriage ceremony . —CURIOUS .

[ Bro . Phemister , we understand , is the respected Secretary of the Lodge Journeymen . —ED . P . M . ] A MASONIC TnOUGIIT . We know not the names of the builders of the pyramids , but these immortal works , defying alike the tooth of timethe anger of the tempestancl the

de-, , vastating hand of man , rear their immortal heads to Heaven . What is it to us who built them ? What matters to its development , who puts a great idea into the world ? We see not ; we have never personally known God , but His worlss still proclaim that HE IS . —L . F .

RED CROSS OF CONSTANTINE . Does R . W . L . know anything of the Red Cross Degrees ? Has he ever heard of Babylon , and does he know the history of the degree upon which he claims to be an authority—the Cross of Constantine . He appears to be alike a poor student of history , as he is of modern Masonry , or he would know that the

Constantine Order among OLD MASONS has always been treated as a contemptible side degree . Lupus is correct . Who reall y is R . W . L . ?— -A RED CROSS KNIGHT .

R . W . L . asks if Lupus will state explicitly what other Red Cross Order than that { miscalled ) of Constantine " has for many years " been known in certain provinces . I may , -perhaps , be allowed to support Lupus so far as to state that I received admission into a Red Cross Order when I was installed a Templar . The brother who gave me the accolade

had been 50 years a Templar , and was Grand Master . I need hardly state , however , that the Red Cross Order was not the Order of Constantine , which is not recognised by the Grand Conclave nor any other grand body in the three kingdoms , so far as I know .

I must beg to contradict " R . W . L . " in his assertion that the Masonic Order of St . John has been revived within the past "four or five " years . The thanks of all true Red Cross Masons are clue to " Lupus " for his letters anent the Order of Constantine . —<&

[ We have had much reluctance in inserting these letters aud notes . Brethren should really think before they write . The discussion had better now close . — ED . P . M . ] CRLTX" ON MASONIC DISCIPLINE , I have with great leasure perused the valuable

p articles by " Crux ' ' on the above subject , and I trust his efforts will be productive of practical good . However , when he leaves his subject and indulges ( as he occasionally does ) in historical remarks , I must say he spoils himself ; and I beg most decidedly to dissent from several of his ideas . I do so becauseas

Pro-, fessor Iuues observes ( p . 120 ) , " we ought to " avoid fables and fabulous pretence of anti quity , " aud because , as Bro . W . J . Hughan wisely remarks ( p . 113 ) , "the ceremonies of the Order require neither trickery nor antiquity to secure their general appreciation ; '' and , further , because I consider that when "Crux "

attempt's to bring in such pseudo-historical remarks as I refer to , he is "going beyond his last . ' " ' Crux " is writing upon " Masonic Discipline , " aud well too ; but he deliberately spots his own sun . Among others , I object to this sentence , "The rites and ceremonies belonging to a fraternity coeval with the

creation of the firmament , are beyond all interrogatory jurisdiction . They stand above the reach of human inquisition . Like the will of the Omnipotent Creator ¦—immutable ancl eternal— -they come not within the narrow sphere of mundane criticism . The nature of their originancl the mystery of their creationare

, , lost in the oblivion of ages ; their secrets are not to be fathomed by the rules of logic nor by the wiles of sophistry . " With all due respect to " Crux , " the above quotation appears to me to be simply bosh , and highly calculated to injure us in the eyes of educated or thinking men . Imagine for a , moment the

meaning of the words that Freemasonry is " a fraternity coeval with the creation of the firmament ! " Again , to liken " the rites and ceremonies " to " the will of the Omnipotent ; Creator , " seems to me to border on blasphemy , "Crux" may not mean so ; but he should be more careful , knowing how our words and

acts are apt to be criticised . Again , at page 121 , " Crux " says there are P . M . ' s who " are as willing at any moment to get into the

chair as their Masonic predecessors were to get into the saddle . " From that sentence it appears to me that " Crux " believes in the modem story , or mushroom legend , of the Knights Templars being Freemasons , of which imagination or fable Bro . A . 0 . Haye fairly disposes when he says ( see Magazine for

May 23 rd , 1 S 6 S , page 411 ) : "There never was and there never has been , up till the end of tho 17 th or beginning of the 18 th century , any connection between the Templars and Freemasons ; " ancl , apart from that , I consider on other grounds that the idea of our " Masonic predecessors getting into tho saddle "

is simply , to saj r the least of it , a mistake . Imagine for a moment the idea of a member of one of tho old operative or building fraternities quietly working away at his stone ; mayhap it is only a plain ashlar which he is carefully squaring , or it may be some quaint device or woudrously-carved capital he is

engaged on . But , hark ! the trumpet sounds ! * * * * Down goes the mell and chisel , off goes apron , the fiery steed is brought out , ancl the worthy Mason being duly transformed pro tern , into Sir Knight McFreestono , sallies forth—a real Bayard—able and willing to encounter—like that doughty Knight , Sir

Don Quixote—any amount of windmills ! So much for our " Masonic predecessors getting into tho saddle . " It strikes me they would fool safer and more at home on terra iir . ua .

There are some historical ( r ) remarics ( page lo /) prefaced to a report of a meeting of the Prov . G . Lodge of Yorkshire West , which I would leave in the bands of some of our English Masonic scholars to deal with . —PICTUS .

THE FREEMASONS ( pp . 90 & 101 . Has the origin aud meaning of the word "Freemason , " as adopted by Arclusologists been explained in the columns of the Freaniutoiis Maya ~ i ; ie and , if so , where?—S . G .

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