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  • The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine
  • July 29, 1871
  • Page 8
  • MASONIC NOTES AND QUERIES.
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The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine, July 29, 1871: Page 8

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Page 8

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Masonic Notes And Queries.

a contributor considers that the letter does not afford sufficient evidence , historically and legally , that what our Freemasonry was in 1757 , that it was in the 17 th century . " See "Freemasons' Magazine , vol . xxii ., page 91 . The evidence which contradicts the Deputy Grand Master ' s letter , has not hitherto been produced . —A PAST PB . OVIHCI . _ L GRAND MASTEK .

SPANISH MASONRY . French masonic news is rather stale , as the Bulletin of the Grand Orient was put on short allowance during the seige . The French Lodge at Carthagena in Spain was formed in 1870 , in agreement with the JIasonie jurisdiction then iu progress of formation in Spain , It counts , above CO members , and its chiefs are Miguel Trigo , Emmanuel Rodriguez , and Antonio Garcia . The name is Sons of Hiram .

ROUMANIE . From the same source we learn that the Grand Orient has added to its many lodges iu lloumanie , one at Ploesti—the Concord . MAHE . There is another Lodge at Mahe in the Seychelles

in the African seas . The Venerable is Bro . Pascal de Giovanny . THE JESUITS . Ninety-eight years ago on Thursday , 20 th ult ., Pope Clement Gangangelli abolished the Order of Jesuits . On the same day , the society , with then-General at their head , left Eome to establish themselves in Sicily , principally at Palermo . *

A PAST PROVINCIAL GRAND MASTER-ARCHITECTURE . See a communication entitled as above , " Freemasons' Magazine , " vol . 24 page 447 . For the former assertion that a Past Provincial Grand Master was " perpetually praising German

architecture at the expense of English , " a Contributor has now substituted the assertion that a Past Provincial Grand Master lias " stated that the Germans taught the English . " A Past Provincial Grand Master will not permit this violation of the rules of literary controversy , f—A PAST PROVINCIAL GHAND MASTEE .

WASHINGTON'S PRAYERS . May the favour of Heaven be upou this Meeting and as it is happily begun , mny it be conducted iii order and closed with harmony ! Amen . May the blessing of Heaven rest upon us , aud al ! regular Lodges ! may brotherly love prevail , and every moral aud social virtue cement us ! Ainen .

Correspondence.

CORRESPONDENCE .

The Editor is not responsible for the opinions expressed by Correspondents THE MAEK DEGREE . 10 THE EDITOtt 01 ? IHE - £ ilEEH \ S 01 _' S MAGAZINE iH _> i-ASOlilC 3 . 1511103 .. Dear Sir and Brother—I am sorry to have to

ob-, serve that the evidence brought forward by Bro . Kerr , upon this subject , as recorded at pages 79 and SO of your columns , is , in my opinion , full of mistakes , as has been already shown at pages 461 , —483 of the Magazine for December 11 th and 18 th , 1 SG 9 , and page 102 , February 5 th , 1870 , & c .

The Lodge ot * Glasgow St . John , does not " hold a charter from Malcolm Canmore / ' while the document purporting to be such held by , or in possession of the Glasgow Incorporation of Masons has not only been denounced by the best authority in the kingdom as a recent forgery , but it has also been twice formally

repudiated by the Grand Lodge of Scotland , viz ., in 1850 , and iu 1870 . Neither is it true that "they have another of William the Lion , which , is indisputable , dated 1174 , " for the William the Lion document referred to is not dated " 1174 , " hut was

granted about A . D ., 1190 , not to the Masons , but to the Bishop ( Joceline ) of Glasgow Cathedral . Said document is lost ; there is , however , a copy of ifc extant in the Register of the Bishopric , written in a hand of the thirteenth century . The Lodge of Glasgow St . John , it must be stated , has never as yet been able prove its title to tin ' s documentwhichin

, , the opinion of Professor Cosmo Innes , the word " fraternitatem , " which occurs in it , does not refer to a company of Operative Masons , but to " a body of zealous Churchmen , zealous Glasgow men — not operatives . " And as to their " books , which were brought forward'' theseas may be seen by perusing

, , page 462 , of the Magazine for December , 18 G 9 , only go back to 1824 , not half a century . And in the Incorporation books which go back to 1600 , there is nothing to shew that any Mark Degree , ever existed before the latter half of last century , while Apprentices used marks as well as Fellow Crafts . Marks

were m common use among all classes from their handiness , as people who could not write could affix their mark . In the 1628 ltossyln " Charter , " we fitidj the Masons confessing that they could not write . There was no " Graud Lodge held in Holyrood Palace in 1598 . " The idea or assertion is , in my opiniona piece of childish Scottish pretension

, , founded upon misapprehension aud misrepresentation , and it is anything but creditable to Scotsmen to either bring forward or support such ideas . To return to the William the Lion Charter for a moment , allow me to observe that supposing operative masons , carpenters , & c , are either included or alluded to in it , it

does not follow that said operatives were either the recip ients or custodians of the Charter , aud in fact such was not the case , as the document was given to Bishop Joceline and his confreres . The business of the seventeenth century , operative or friendl y lodges , in contradistinction to the eighteenth and nineteenth century speculative lodges , was work , wages , and

“The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine: 1871-07-29, Page 8” Masonic Periodicals Online, Library and Museum of Freemasonry, 29 June 2025, django:8000/periodicals/mmr/issues/mmr_29071871/page/8/.
  • List
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Title Category Page
Untitled Article 1
CHARITABLE INSTITUTIONS IN INDIA. Article 1
THE SPURIOUS CHAPTER OF ANTIQUITY. Article 2
THE MYSTIC BEAUTIES OF FREEMASONRY. Article 2
A SUMMARY OF THE HISTORY OF THE INDEFATIGABLE LODGE, No. 237. Article 3
AN ADDRESS Article 5
MASONIC JOTTINGS, No. 79. Article 7
MASONIC NOTES AND QUERIES. Article 7
CORRESPONDENCE. Article 8
MASONIC SAYINGS AND DOINGS ABROAD. Article 9
MASONIC MEMS. Article 11
Craft Masonry. Article 11
PROVINCIAL. Article 11
INDIA. Article 13
ROYAL ARCH. Article 14
MARK MASONRY. Article 14
ANCIENT AND ACCEPTED RITE. Article 14
MASONIC FESTIVITIES. Article 15
Obituary. Article 16
THE MARK DEGREE IN ENGLAND. Article 17
LIST OF LODGE MEETINGS &c., FOR WEEK ENDING AUGUST 5TH, 1871. Article 20
METROPOLITAN LODGES AND CHAPTERS OF INSTRUCTION. Article 20
TO CORRESPONDENTS. Article 20
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Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.

Masonic Notes And Queries.

a contributor considers that the letter does not afford sufficient evidence , historically and legally , that what our Freemasonry was in 1757 , that it was in the 17 th century . " See "Freemasons' Magazine , vol . xxii ., page 91 . The evidence which contradicts the Deputy Grand Master ' s letter , has not hitherto been produced . —A PAST PB . OVIHCI . _ L GRAND MASTEK .

SPANISH MASONRY . French masonic news is rather stale , as the Bulletin of the Grand Orient was put on short allowance during the seige . The French Lodge at Carthagena in Spain was formed in 1870 , in agreement with the JIasonie jurisdiction then iu progress of formation in Spain , It counts , above CO members , and its chiefs are Miguel Trigo , Emmanuel Rodriguez , and Antonio Garcia . The name is Sons of Hiram .

ROUMANIE . From the same source we learn that the Grand Orient has added to its many lodges iu lloumanie , one at Ploesti—the Concord . MAHE . There is another Lodge at Mahe in the Seychelles

in the African seas . The Venerable is Bro . Pascal de Giovanny . THE JESUITS . Ninety-eight years ago on Thursday , 20 th ult ., Pope Clement Gangangelli abolished the Order of Jesuits . On the same day , the society , with then-General at their head , left Eome to establish themselves in Sicily , principally at Palermo . *

A PAST PROVINCIAL GRAND MASTER-ARCHITECTURE . See a communication entitled as above , " Freemasons' Magazine , " vol . 24 page 447 . For the former assertion that a Past Provincial Grand Master was " perpetually praising German

architecture at the expense of English , " a Contributor has now substituted the assertion that a Past Provincial Grand Master lias " stated that the Germans taught the English . " A Past Provincial Grand Master will not permit this violation of the rules of literary controversy , f—A PAST PROVINCIAL GHAND MASTEE .

WASHINGTON'S PRAYERS . May the favour of Heaven be upou this Meeting and as it is happily begun , mny it be conducted iii order and closed with harmony ! Amen . May the blessing of Heaven rest upon us , aud al ! regular Lodges ! may brotherly love prevail , and every moral aud social virtue cement us ! Ainen .

Correspondence.

CORRESPONDENCE .

The Editor is not responsible for the opinions expressed by Correspondents THE MAEK DEGREE . 10 THE EDITOtt 01 ? IHE - £ ilEEH \ S 01 _' S MAGAZINE iH _> i-ASOlilC 3 . 1511103 .. Dear Sir and Brother—I am sorry to have to

ob-, serve that the evidence brought forward by Bro . Kerr , upon this subject , as recorded at pages 79 and SO of your columns , is , in my opinion , full of mistakes , as has been already shown at pages 461 , —483 of the Magazine for December 11 th and 18 th , 1 SG 9 , and page 102 , February 5 th , 1870 , & c .

The Lodge ot * Glasgow St . John , does not " hold a charter from Malcolm Canmore / ' while the document purporting to be such held by , or in possession of the Glasgow Incorporation of Masons has not only been denounced by the best authority in the kingdom as a recent forgery , but it has also been twice formally

repudiated by the Grand Lodge of Scotland , viz ., in 1850 , and iu 1870 . Neither is it true that "they have another of William the Lion , which , is indisputable , dated 1174 , " for the William the Lion document referred to is not dated " 1174 , " hut was

granted about A . D ., 1190 , not to the Masons , but to the Bishop ( Joceline ) of Glasgow Cathedral . Said document is lost ; there is , however , a copy of ifc extant in the Register of the Bishopric , written in a hand of the thirteenth century . The Lodge of Glasgow St . John , it must be stated , has never as yet been able prove its title to tin ' s documentwhichin

, , the opinion of Professor Cosmo Innes , the word " fraternitatem , " which occurs in it , does not refer to a company of Operative Masons , but to " a body of zealous Churchmen , zealous Glasgow men — not operatives . " And as to their " books , which were brought forward'' theseas may be seen by perusing

, , page 462 , of the Magazine for December , 18 G 9 , only go back to 1824 , not half a century . And in the Incorporation books which go back to 1600 , there is nothing to shew that any Mark Degree , ever existed before the latter half of last century , while Apprentices used marks as well as Fellow Crafts . Marks

were m common use among all classes from their handiness , as people who could not write could affix their mark . In the 1628 ltossyln " Charter , " we fitidj the Masons confessing that they could not write . There was no " Graud Lodge held in Holyrood Palace in 1598 . " The idea or assertion is , in my opiniona piece of childish Scottish pretension

, , founded upon misapprehension aud misrepresentation , and it is anything but creditable to Scotsmen to either bring forward or support such ideas . To return to the William the Lion Charter for a moment , allow me to observe that supposing operative masons , carpenters , & c , are either included or alluded to in it , it

does not follow that said operatives were either the recip ients or custodians of the Charter , aud in fact such was not the case , as the document was given to Bishop Joceline and his confreres . The business of the seventeenth century , operative or friendl y lodges , in contradistinction to the eighteenth and nineteenth century speculative lodges , was work , wages , and

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