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  • The Masonic Observer
  • June 20, 1857
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  • GRAND LODGE, JUNE 3rd, 1857.
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The Masonic Observer, June 20, 1857: Page 7

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    Article GRAND LODGE, JUNE 3rd, 1857. ← Page 5 of 5
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Grand Lodge, June 3rd, 1857.

notices of motion on the hooks for a length of time , should at each quarterly communication find them thrown to the bottom of the list , and precedence given to notices of a recent date . If the proposals in those notices were good , the sooner they were carried into effect the better ; and if on the contrary they were worthless or injurious , it would , he conceived , be a great advantage to have them removed from the paper as speedily as possible . W . Bro . BINCKES had great pleasure in seconding the motion , as he thought it must have a good practical effect . He was himself a

sufferer by the system hitherto in vogue , having had a notice of motion on the paper since September last , without ever having an opportunity of bringing it forward . He alluded to his notice of motion for an increased grant to the Widows' Annuity Fund to the extent of £ 500 . He had repeated that notice over and over again , and had attended in his place to move it , but without having an opportunity of doing so . The proposal of Bro . Warren would , he thought , do away with such inconvenience , and would save Grand Lodge a great

deal of trouble . . W . Bro . TAYLOR remarked that the motion seemed to have a twofold object : first , that all the old notices should formally take precedence of the new ones ; and secondly , that the law which required that all motions should , before being placed upon the paper , be brought before the Board of Masters . That the old notices should take precedence of the new ones he saw no objection to , and he fully concurred in the observations which had fallen from Bros . Warren and Binckes ; for it went on the good old principle of " first come first served . " With respect to the second part of the proposition that the notices should continue on the paper , without being , from time to time , renewed , it was a proposal with which he could

not agree . He could not agree with Bro . Warren that the present system pressed hardly upon any Brother . That Bro ., at all events , did not that evening seem to labour under any difficulty , as almost all the motions which had been brought forward proceeded from him . ( Laughter . ) He would now conclude his observations by moving , as an amendment , the addition of a proviso to the effect that a notice of renewal should each time be given to the Board of Masters . W . Bro . ARIA thought G . L . ought to go by the rule of similar

assemblies . It was the practice of all deliberative bodies that notices of motions should be considered in the order of their precedence . He thought that the observations of both the mover and seconder were well grounded . ,.- ; , W . Bro . SYMONDS- thought Bro . Aria intended to second the motion of Bro . Taylor , but as he had not done so , he ( Bro . Symonds ) would now do so , as , while he thought the right of precedency should be maintained , he was strongly of opinion that it was necessary to save the expense of printing , and trouble , that notice of

renewal should be served on the Board of Masters . R . W . Bro . DOBIE suggested that the objection raised against the motion might be removed if Bro . Warren would consent to insert after the word precedency , the words , "if renewed by notice at the Board of Masters . " V . W . Bro . HENDERSON said he agreed in the suggestion of Bro . Dobie . W . Bro . WARREN having consented to Bro . Dobie ' s alteration the motion was agreed to , and it being now past Eleven o'clock , Grand Lodge was closed , in ample form , and with solemn prayer .

The Earl Of Carnarvon At Stonehouse.

THE EARL OF CARNARVON AT STONEHOUSE .

From the Freemasons' Magazine . The EARL of CARNARVON visited the Lodge of Sincerity , No . 224 , on the 26 th of March , when he was met by a large number of Brethren from tho different Lodges in the three towns . After the ordinary business had been concluded , the W . M . Bro . J . C . Hancock begged the noble Brother to express his opinion upon the present position of the Craft , in accordance with which desire he

said , " He was gratified to have had this opportunity of making the personal acquaintance of so many Brethren in that neighbourhood . He had heard with pleasure of the fame of the Lodges , and of the number of Freemasons in Plymouth , Devonport , and Stonehouse ; but he heard with still greater pleasure the expression of their interest in the welfare of the Order . If those to whom ho had the pleasure of now speaking had read the recent proceedings in Grand Lodge , they would be aware that he had felt most anxious that the country Lodges should take an interest in tho business of Grand Lodge . It was a main element of their prosperity and of the right administration of their affairs , that the country Lodges should show

an interest in the proceedings of Grand Lodge . As individual Brethren were represented in their Lodges , so should the country Lodges find their representation in Grand Lodge . That this was often otherwise , was in a great measure the fault of the Lodges themselves ; and the resumption of this principle of representation , as it would have anticipated , so now it would obviate many difficulties , and cure many evils which had grown up . It had been his fortune to press upon Grand Lodge three subjects , two of which affected to a considerable extent the restoration of the representative

character of Grand Lodge . Having regard to the numbers of Freemasons and their diffusion over the country , the colonies , and the associated Lodges of other countries , English Freemasonry might be viewed as a kingdom ; and its policy , like that of a kingdom , had three great relations—foreign , colonial , and domestic . With their permission he would say a few words on the existing position of Grand Lodge with respect to each of these interests . In the first lacein connection with their foreign relationsthere was a subject

p , , of great importance to some of their Brethren in foreign countries at present before Grand Lodge ; he referred to the persecutions of Freemasons by the Roman Catholic clergy—persecutions which no doubt sprung out of a misconception of the character of Freemasonry , and the objects it had in view . In all ages Freemasonry had been regarded witli suspicion , and assailed in turn by calumny , and by open oppression ; but nowhere was the prejudice against it stronger than in Roman Catholic countries . In Malta , the

Mauritius , Trinidad , and at Hong-Kong , Freemasons had been deprived of their civil and religious privileges , and had been interdicted from the holy offices of baptism , marriage , and burial , by the Roman Catholic clergy . Facts proving but too plainly and painfully that this was the case were before Grand Lodge , and , as others had failed to do so , he could not avoid calling attention to the subject ; and with the view , if not to remedy the evil and to convince the oppressors , at least to place them ina false positionto render the persecution

. , itself more difficult , and to prove to our foreign and suffering Brethren that they had the sympathy of English Freemasons , he had proposed that a statement of the principles of Freemasonry be drawn up by the Board of General Purposes for circulation . He believed such a statement , being authorized by the Grand Lodge , would have had the effect of showing how much the persecutors had mistaken its purpose , and the character of its members : it would have

shown them that its first and fundamental principle was a ; recogm .. tion of religion , and its second a rigid non-intervention in the politics of any country . That proposal was conceived in a moderate spirit , and expressed in temperate language : but it unfortunately did not obtain the concurrence of Grand Lodge . It was opposed by various Brethren on the Dais—first on one ground , then on another ; now because it proposed too much , then because it proposed too little ; and at last seemed to be shelved in a manner very prejudicial to the dignity , the justice , and the interest of the Craft

at home and abroad . He regretted to say that the real objection at the root of these minor cavils seemed to be a fact which he had stated in the course of the debate little creditable to Masonic administration , but which had been unchallenged and uncontradicted . It was this : tho G . M . of France had addressed a letter to our authorities in England , dwelling on the oppression of foreign Masons , and requesting their co-operation . This letter had remained ¦ buried in the official archives of England for nine or ten months , not only unattended tobut without meeting with the usual

cour-, tesy of a formal acknowledgment . He next adverted to the colonial relations of English Freemasonry ; without entering at length into the history of their claims , their repeated complaints , the neglect of their remonstrances , and the revulsion of feeling which had followed upon the treatment of their interests , and which had converted Canada into a disaffected province , he called particular attention to the present position of affairs . He alluded to the concessions announced by the Most Worshipful G . M . at the recent meeting of Grand Lod and expressed a hope that concessions made in so

ge , conciliatory a manner , carrying with them all the influence which was derivable from so high an authority , and accompanied by an honourable and candid acknowledgment , which set no unbecoming example to many of those who had assumed the position of advisers to the Most Worshipful G . M ., would prove successful . He could not however disguise that these concessions came tardily , that the feeling in Canada in favour of independence had grown very strong , and that it was more than doubtful if their colonial supremacy could now be preserved . He was afraid that in this matter they had gone

too near that fatal rock , 'Too Late , ' which had shipwrecked so many empires , dynasties , and governments . This was a matter upon which the country Lodges would have done well to have put their views before Grand Lodge . With respect to domestic affairs , his lordship explained at some length the constitution and working

“The Masonic Observer: 1857-06-20, Page 7” Masonic Periodicals Online, Library and Museum of Freemasonry, 23 May 2025, django:8000/periodicals/mob/issues/mob_20061857/page/7/.
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Untitled Article 2
Untitled Article 3
GRAND LODGE, JUNE 3rd, 1857. Article 3
THE EARL OF CARNARVON AT STONEHOUSE. Article 7
THE M. W. THE G. M. AT OXFORD. Article 8
INSTALLATION OF THE EARL OF CARNARVON AS W. M. OF THE WESTMINSTER AND KEYSTONE LODGE , No. 10. Article 10
MEETING OF MARK MASTERS. Article 13
GRAND MARK LODGE OF ENGLAND. Article 15
THE CANADIAN MOVEMENT. Article 15
REPORT FROM THE P. G. M. OF QUEBEC TO THE M. W. THE G. M. Article 17
Colonial. Article 18
Correspondence. Article 18
Untitled Article 19
FREEMASONS' BOYS' SCHOOL. Article 20
OXFORD FOOD AND OXFORD FLATTERY. Article 20
NOTES AND QUERIES. Article 20
Untitled Ad 20
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Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.

Grand Lodge, June 3rd, 1857.

notices of motion on the hooks for a length of time , should at each quarterly communication find them thrown to the bottom of the list , and precedence given to notices of a recent date . If the proposals in those notices were good , the sooner they were carried into effect the better ; and if on the contrary they were worthless or injurious , it would , he conceived , be a great advantage to have them removed from the paper as speedily as possible . W . Bro . BINCKES had great pleasure in seconding the motion , as he thought it must have a good practical effect . He was himself a

sufferer by the system hitherto in vogue , having had a notice of motion on the paper since September last , without ever having an opportunity of bringing it forward . He alluded to his notice of motion for an increased grant to the Widows' Annuity Fund to the extent of £ 500 . He had repeated that notice over and over again , and had attended in his place to move it , but without having an opportunity of doing so . The proposal of Bro . Warren would , he thought , do away with such inconvenience , and would save Grand Lodge a great

deal of trouble . . W . Bro . TAYLOR remarked that the motion seemed to have a twofold object : first , that all the old notices should formally take precedence of the new ones ; and secondly , that the law which required that all motions should , before being placed upon the paper , be brought before the Board of Masters . That the old notices should take precedence of the new ones he saw no objection to , and he fully concurred in the observations which had fallen from Bros . Warren and Binckes ; for it went on the good old principle of " first come first served . " With respect to the second part of the proposition that the notices should continue on the paper , without being , from time to time , renewed , it was a proposal with which he could

not agree . He could not agree with Bro . Warren that the present system pressed hardly upon any Brother . That Bro ., at all events , did not that evening seem to labour under any difficulty , as almost all the motions which had been brought forward proceeded from him . ( Laughter . ) He would now conclude his observations by moving , as an amendment , the addition of a proviso to the effect that a notice of renewal should each time be given to the Board of Masters . W . Bro . ARIA thought G . L . ought to go by the rule of similar

assemblies . It was the practice of all deliberative bodies that notices of motions should be considered in the order of their precedence . He thought that the observations of both the mover and seconder were well grounded . ,.- ; , W . Bro . SYMONDS- thought Bro . Aria intended to second the motion of Bro . Taylor , but as he had not done so , he ( Bro . Symonds ) would now do so , as , while he thought the right of precedency should be maintained , he was strongly of opinion that it was necessary to save the expense of printing , and trouble , that notice of

renewal should be served on the Board of Masters . R . W . Bro . DOBIE suggested that the objection raised against the motion might be removed if Bro . Warren would consent to insert after the word precedency , the words , "if renewed by notice at the Board of Masters . " V . W . Bro . HENDERSON said he agreed in the suggestion of Bro . Dobie . W . Bro . WARREN having consented to Bro . Dobie ' s alteration the motion was agreed to , and it being now past Eleven o'clock , Grand Lodge was closed , in ample form , and with solemn prayer .

The Earl Of Carnarvon At Stonehouse.

THE EARL OF CARNARVON AT STONEHOUSE .

From the Freemasons' Magazine . The EARL of CARNARVON visited the Lodge of Sincerity , No . 224 , on the 26 th of March , when he was met by a large number of Brethren from tho different Lodges in the three towns . After the ordinary business had been concluded , the W . M . Bro . J . C . Hancock begged the noble Brother to express his opinion upon the present position of the Craft , in accordance with which desire he

said , " He was gratified to have had this opportunity of making the personal acquaintance of so many Brethren in that neighbourhood . He had heard with pleasure of the fame of the Lodges , and of the number of Freemasons in Plymouth , Devonport , and Stonehouse ; but he heard with still greater pleasure the expression of their interest in the welfare of the Order . If those to whom ho had the pleasure of now speaking had read the recent proceedings in Grand Lodge , they would be aware that he had felt most anxious that the country Lodges should take an interest in tho business of Grand Lodge . It was a main element of their prosperity and of the right administration of their affairs , that the country Lodges should show

an interest in the proceedings of Grand Lodge . As individual Brethren were represented in their Lodges , so should the country Lodges find their representation in Grand Lodge . That this was often otherwise , was in a great measure the fault of the Lodges themselves ; and the resumption of this principle of representation , as it would have anticipated , so now it would obviate many difficulties , and cure many evils which had grown up . It had been his fortune to press upon Grand Lodge three subjects , two of which affected to a considerable extent the restoration of the representative

character of Grand Lodge . Having regard to the numbers of Freemasons and their diffusion over the country , the colonies , and the associated Lodges of other countries , English Freemasonry might be viewed as a kingdom ; and its policy , like that of a kingdom , had three great relations—foreign , colonial , and domestic . With their permission he would say a few words on the existing position of Grand Lodge with respect to each of these interests . In the first lacein connection with their foreign relationsthere was a subject

p , , of great importance to some of their Brethren in foreign countries at present before Grand Lodge ; he referred to the persecutions of Freemasons by the Roman Catholic clergy—persecutions which no doubt sprung out of a misconception of the character of Freemasonry , and the objects it had in view . In all ages Freemasonry had been regarded witli suspicion , and assailed in turn by calumny , and by open oppression ; but nowhere was the prejudice against it stronger than in Roman Catholic countries . In Malta , the

Mauritius , Trinidad , and at Hong-Kong , Freemasons had been deprived of their civil and religious privileges , and had been interdicted from the holy offices of baptism , marriage , and burial , by the Roman Catholic clergy . Facts proving but too plainly and painfully that this was the case were before Grand Lodge , and , as others had failed to do so , he could not avoid calling attention to the subject ; and with the view , if not to remedy the evil and to convince the oppressors , at least to place them ina false positionto render the persecution

. , itself more difficult , and to prove to our foreign and suffering Brethren that they had the sympathy of English Freemasons , he had proposed that a statement of the principles of Freemasonry be drawn up by the Board of General Purposes for circulation . He believed such a statement , being authorized by the Grand Lodge , would have had the effect of showing how much the persecutors had mistaken its purpose , and the character of its members : it would have

shown them that its first and fundamental principle was a ; recogm .. tion of religion , and its second a rigid non-intervention in the politics of any country . That proposal was conceived in a moderate spirit , and expressed in temperate language : but it unfortunately did not obtain the concurrence of Grand Lodge . It was opposed by various Brethren on the Dais—first on one ground , then on another ; now because it proposed too much , then because it proposed too little ; and at last seemed to be shelved in a manner very prejudicial to the dignity , the justice , and the interest of the Craft

at home and abroad . He regretted to say that the real objection at the root of these minor cavils seemed to be a fact which he had stated in the course of the debate little creditable to Masonic administration , but which had been unchallenged and uncontradicted . It was this : tho G . M . of France had addressed a letter to our authorities in England , dwelling on the oppression of foreign Masons , and requesting their co-operation . This letter had remained ¦ buried in the official archives of England for nine or ten months , not only unattended tobut without meeting with the usual

cour-, tesy of a formal acknowledgment . He next adverted to the colonial relations of English Freemasonry ; without entering at length into the history of their claims , their repeated complaints , the neglect of their remonstrances , and the revulsion of feeling which had followed upon the treatment of their interests , and which had converted Canada into a disaffected province , he called particular attention to the present position of affairs . He alluded to the concessions announced by the Most Worshipful G . M . at the recent meeting of Grand Lod and expressed a hope that concessions made in so

ge , conciliatory a manner , carrying with them all the influence which was derivable from so high an authority , and accompanied by an honourable and candid acknowledgment , which set no unbecoming example to many of those who had assumed the position of advisers to the Most Worshipful G . M ., would prove successful . He could not however disguise that these concessions came tardily , that the feeling in Canada in favour of independence had grown very strong , and that it was more than doubtful if their colonial supremacy could now be preserved . He was afraid that in this matter they had gone

too near that fatal rock , 'Too Late , ' which had shipwrecked so many empires , dynasties , and governments . This was a matter upon which the country Lodges would have done well to have put their views before Grand Lodge . With respect to domestic affairs , his lordship explained at some length the constitution and working

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