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  • Sept. 20, 1858
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The Masonic Observer, Sept. 20, 1858: Page 9

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    Article GRAND LODGE. ← Page 3 of 4 →
Page 9

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Grand Lodge.

matters not referred to in the report of the Board of General Purposes . The M . W . GRAND MASTER rose to call both Brethren to order . There was a motion before Grand Lodge , and that was , that the report should be taken as read , and to that they should confine themselves . Bro . WHITMORE said , that to put himself in order , he should move as an amendment that it should not be taken as read . The reason he did so was , that there stood upon the business paper a letter

which took precedence of the report of the Board of General Purposes , and he would now ask if they were not to be at liberty to comment upon it ? The M . W . GRAND MASTER replied in the negative . Bro . Rev . G . R . PORTAL rose to a point of order . He had listened to the explanations of Bro . Havers and of his worthy Bro . the G . Registrar with the greatest patience , but he regretted that ho could not understand the principle they wished to lay down . He had the most perfect confidence in the fairness of the decision of the

M . W . Grand Master , but he wished to remind Grand Lodge that at a recent meeting a correspondence with the Brethren in Tasmania was laid before them , and on that being read , the noble Brother Lord Panmure , the D . G . M ., got np , and without any previous notice whatever , made a motion upon it . Bro . Dobie , P . G . Reg ., did the same thing on a letter being read from Bro . Lord Naas , relative to Lodges in the colonies refusing to receive Brethren initiated in the Lodges holding under Irish warrants . These were two important occasions on which resolutions had been entertained and passed on the

presentation of papers without any previous notice . He could mention several precedents , but those to which he had alluded would serve his purpose . Bro . HERVEY , P . G . D ., said it was seldom he rose to interrupt any Brother , but he wished to refer Bro . Portal to the Book of Constitutions , and he would see there that the reports of the several committees took precedence of all other business . Bro . Rev . G . R . PORTAL did not see the point which Bro . Hervey wished to urge . There was a certain letter on the paper : that letter had been passed over by tbe Grand Secretary for the sake of avoiding discussion , and that , he and many other Brethren considered unfair .

Bro . HERVEY , P . G . D ., explained that it was in obedience to the command of the M W . Grand Master that the correspondence was laid before Grand Lodge for information only , and that being the case , he wanted to know what motion could be put upon it . Bro . ROXBURGH , G . Reg ., thought it his duty to call the attention of Grand Lodge to the real state of the matter before them . When the M . W . Grand Master laid before Grand Lodge any communication requiring action , it was competent for any Brother , without previous notice , to move that that action be ' or be not taken .

There was , however , no analogy between such a case and the present , and Bro . Portal himself would see if he read the words on the paper , ( and no man could read them with more acuteness ) , that this Harington correspondence was printed for the information of the Brethren and nothing more . He was surprised one of such ingenuity and sagacity as the worthy Brother whom he had mentioned , did not himself see this . The M . W . GRAND MASTER wished , in reply to the question which had been put to him , to reiterate what he had already said . He

agreed with the G . Reg . that the correspondence formed no part of the report of the Board of General Purposes , and that it was not competent to any Brother to make a motion upon it without having given due notice thereof . The motion was then agreed to , that the report be taken as read . Bro . HAVERS , G . D ., next moved that it be received and entered upon the minutes , and in doing so , begged leave to remark that it would be his duty to move the adoption of the last paragraph . If there was any portion of the report objectionable to a Brotherthe

, present was the moment for his moving that it be not received . Bro . ROXBURGH , G . Reg . seconded the motion , which was carried without further discussion . , Bro . HAVERS then moved that the copyright of the forthcoming edition of the Book of Constitutions be vested in the G . Sec . This was duly seconded , and at once agreed to .

THE PROVINCES . Bro . the Rev . G . R . PORTA L , in moving the resolution of which he had given notice— "It appearing , from the returns now before Grand Lodge , that some irregularity has occurred in holding Provincial Grand Lodges , it is the opinion of Grand Lodge that a Provincial Grand Lodge should be held in each province at least once in every year , either by the Provincial Grand Master or by his Deputy ; " said he wished to commence by saying that all cause

for his motion would have been removed if the P . G M . of Bucks and Berks , or his Deputy , had held a meeting of the Grand Lodge of the province , as requested by the G . M . I The M . W . GRAND MASTER must be permitted to interrupt the worthy Brother , by informing him that he had heard from the Provincial Grand Master , who had informed him that his wish should he complied with . Bro . HERVEY observed , that there was no necessity for the motion , as the rule it would lay down was already part of the Book

of Constitutions , as he would find by reference to page 47 . Bro . the Rev . G . R . PORTAL was aware , on page 47—[ Bro . Roxburgh— "Section 8 . " ] Yes , section 8 . He thanked Bro . Roxburgh for section 8—page 47 , section 8 . ( Great laughter ) That law , however , seemed , through some irregularity , to have fallen into abeyance , or probably , the Grand Registrar had not looked sharp enough after the Provincial Lodges . It was extraordinary that those answers invariably came at the same time with his motions . The M . W . GRAND MASTER wished to set the worthy Brother

right on that point . Long before the notice was given in , he had received from Lord Downsbire the assurance referred to . Bro . ROXBURGH , G . Reg ., could only assure Bro . Portal that he should feel obliged to him if he would point out—if he would be kind enough to point out—the Grand Registrar ' s laches . A fillip from Bro . Portal would be a compliment to the delinquent . The motion was then withdrawn . Bro . WHITMORE then moved— " That it shall be competent for any Memoer of Grand Lodge to move , without previous notice

being given , the adoption , or otherwise , of any report , or recommendation contained in such report , of any Board or Committee appointed either by the Grand Lodge , or by the Grand Lodge and Grand Master conjointly ; and it shall also be competent for any other Member of Grand Lodge , upon such motion being duly made and seconded , to propose an amendment to the same . " He said , that it seemed , from circumstances that had lately occurred , that Grand Lodge had but a very qualified power in dealing with the reports of the several Boards , and the authorities were at variance with regard to the extent of it On the occasion of the last meeting of Grand Lodge , Bro . Green had enquired of the Grand Master if it were competent for him to to move that a certain portion of the report of the Board of General Purposes be not adopted , and he

was told that it was . Consequent on that decision of his lordship , a conversation took place between him and the Grand Registrar , and the result of it was , that he was induced to reverse his own ruling . The M . W . GRAND MASTER wished to set Bro . Whitmore right . He had not at all reversed his decision . He clearly stated that Bro . Green had that right , but that was not the time for him to exercise it . Bro . WHITMORE said he stood corrected ; but the mere fact of a difference of opinion between his lordship and the Grand Registrar—Bro . ROXBURGH , G . Reg ., —No , I hope you will not say that .

Bro . WHITMORE—The impression of the Brethren was ! that there was a difference of opinion . Bro . ROXBURGH , G . Reg ., I am not liable for impressions . Bro . WHITMORE said he did not find fault with those pleasurable interruptions ; at the same time it might be as well that the worthy Brother should hear him to the end and then explain . ( Hear , hear . ) It bad been his opinion that there was not a coincidence of views between them . His experience of public bodies was , that when a report of a committee was presented to themit became

, their property to deal with it as they might think fit , and therefore it was that he brought forward the present motion . He thought the responsibility of deciding how far these reports might be discussed , should not be imposed upon the G . M ., but that Grand Lodge itself should do so . He had another reason for his resolution . It was , that he was jealous of the privileges of Grand Lodge . ( Hear , hear . ) As they had the power of making laws , so they had the power of dealing with their defects . His resolution went to make that power distinct . When a report from any committee

came before them , it should be their business to receive , improve , amend , or alter it , in any way they thought proper , such amendment having reference to the subject matter of the report . Here he felt that his notice was detective ; but if any Brother would add to it as an amendment , the words he had mentioned , namely , " such amendment having reference to the subject matter of the report , " he should most \ villingly support him . Bro . BINCKES seconded the resolution , and confirmed the statement that the impression in Grand Lodge wasthat there was a

, difference of opinion between the M . W . Grand Master and the G . Reg . The resolution would be more satisfactory if words were interpolated , giving them a right to move upon all communications as well as the reports of the committees . Bro . ROXBURGH again explained that it was only where Grand

“The Masonic Observer: 1858-09-20, Page 9” Masonic Periodicals Online, Library and Museum of Freemasonry, 13 May 2025, django:8000/periodicals/mob/issues/mob_20091858/page/9/.
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Untitled Article 1
Untitled Article 1
Untitled Article 2
Untitled Article 3
Untitled Article 4
Untitled Article 5
Untitled Article 6
Untitled Article 7
GRAND LODGE. Article 7
The Colonies. Article 10
Untitled Article 11
Untitled Article 11
Untitled Article 14
UNION IN NEW YORK. Article 14
NEW BRUNSWICK. Article 14
NEW ZEALAND. Article 15
AUSTRALIA.-VICTORIA. Article 15
Mark Masonry. Article 16
Masonic Charities. Article 17
The Provinces. Article 19
Untitled Article 22
Correspondence. Article 23
Untitled Article 24
Untitled Article 24
Untitled Ad 24
Untitled Ad 24
Untitled Ad 24
Untitled Ad 24
Untitled Article 24
Untitled Article 24
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Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.

Grand Lodge.

matters not referred to in the report of the Board of General Purposes . The M . W . GRAND MASTER rose to call both Brethren to order . There was a motion before Grand Lodge , and that was , that the report should be taken as read , and to that they should confine themselves . Bro . WHITMORE said , that to put himself in order , he should move as an amendment that it should not be taken as read . The reason he did so was , that there stood upon the business paper a letter

which took precedence of the report of the Board of General Purposes , and he would now ask if they were not to be at liberty to comment upon it ? The M . W . GRAND MASTER replied in the negative . Bro . Rev . G . R . PORTAL rose to a point of order . He had listened to the explanations of Bro . Havers and of his worthy Bro . the G . Registrar with the greatest patience , but he regretted that ho could not understand the principle they wished to lay down . He had the most perfect confidence in the fairness of the decision of the

M . W . Grand Master , but he wished to remind Grand Lodge that at a recent meeting a correspondence with the Brethren in Tasmania was laid before them , and on that being read , the noble Brother Lord Panmure , the D . G . M ., got np , and without any previous notice whatever , made a motion upon it . Bro . Dobie , P . G . Reg ., did the same thing on a letter being read from Bro . Lord Naas , relative to Lodges in the colonies refusing to receive Brethren initiated in the Lodges holding under Irish warrants . These were two important occasions on which resolutions had been entertained and passed on the

presentation of papers without any previous notice . He could mention several precedents , but those to which he had alluded would serve his purpose . Bro . HERVEY , P . G . D ., said it was seldom he rose to interrupt any Brother , but he wished to refer Bro . Portal to the Book of Constitutions , and he would see there that the reports of the several committees took precedence of all other business . Bro . Rev . G . R . PORTAL did not see the point which Bro . Hervey wished to urge . There was a certain letter on the paper : that letter had been passed over by tbe Grand Secretary for the sake of avoiding discussion , and that , he and many other Brethren considered unfair .

Bro . HERVEY , P . G . D ., explained that it was in obedience to the command of the M W . Grand Master that the correspondence was laid before Grand Lodge for information only , and that being the case , he wanted to know what motion could be put upon it . Bro . ROXBURGH , G . Reg ., thought it his duty to call the attention of Grand Lodge to the real state of the matter before them . When the M . W . Grand Master laid before Grand Lodge any communication requiring action , it was competent for any Brother , without previous notice , to move that that action be ' or be not taken .

There was , however , no analogy between such a case and the present , and Bro . Portal himself would see if he read the words on the paper , ( and no man could read them with more acuteness ) , that this Harington correspondence was printed for the information of the Brethren and nothing more . He was surprised one of such ingenuity and sagacity as the worthy Brother whom he had mentioned , did not himself see this . The M . W . GRAND MASTER wished , in reply to the question which had been put to him , to reiterate what he had already said . He

agreed with the G . Reg . that the correspondence formed no part of the report of the Board of General Purposes , and that it was not competent to any Brother to make a motion upon it without having given due notice thereof . The motion was then agreed to , that the report be taken as read . Bro . HAVERS , G . D ., next moved that it be received and entered upon the minutes , and in doing so , begged leave to remark that it would be his duty to move the adoption of the last paragraph . If there was any portion of the report objectionable to a Brotherthe

, present was the moment for his moving that it be not received . Bro . ROXBURGH , G . Reg . seconded the motion , which was carried without further discussion . , Bro . HAVERS then moved that the copyright of the forthcoming edition of the Book of Constitutions be vested in the G . Sec . This was duly seconded , and at once agreed to .

THE PROVINCES . Bro . the Rev . G . R . PORTA L , in moving the resolution of which he had given notice— "It appearing , from the returns now before Grand Lodge , that some irregularity has occurred in holding Provincial Grand Lodges , it is the opinion of Grand Lodge that a Provincial Grand Lodge should be held in each province at least once in every year , either by the Provincial Grand Master or by his Deputy ; " said he wished to commence by saying that all cause

for his motion would have been removed if the P . G M . of Bucks and Berks , or his Deputy , had held a meeting of the Grand Lodge of the province , as requested by the G . M . I The M . W . GRAND MASTER must be permitted to interrupt the worthy Brother , by informing him that he had heard from the Provincial Grand Master , who had informed him that his wish should he complied with . Bro . HERVEY observed , that there was no necessity for the motion , as the rule it would lay down was already part of the Book

of Constitutions , as he would find by reference to page 47 . Bro . the Rev . G . R . PORTAL was aware , on page 47—[ Bro . Roxburgh— "Section 8 . " ] Yes , section 8 . He thanked Bro . Roxburgh for section 8—page 47 , section 8 . ( Great laughter ) That law , however , seemed , through some irregularity , to have fallen into abeyance , or probably , the Grand Registrar had not looked sharp enough after the Provincial Lodges . It was extraordinary that those answers invariably came at the same time with his motions . The M . W . GRAND MASTER wished to set the worthy Brother

right on that point . Long before the notice was given in , he had received from Lord Downsbire the assurance referred to . Bro . ROXBURGH , G . Reg ., could only assure Bro . Portal that he should feel obliged to him if he would point out—if he would be kind enough to point out—the Grand Registrar ' s laches . A fillip from Bro . Portal would be a compliment to the delinquent . The motion was then withdrawn . Bro . WHITMORE then moved— " That it shall be competent for any Memoer of Grand Lodge to move , without previous notice

being given , the adoption , or otherwise , of any report , or recommendation contained in such report , of any Board or Committee appointed either by the Grand Lodge , or by the Grand Lodge and Grand Master conjointly ; and it shall also be competent for any other Member of Grand Lodge , upon such motion being duly made and seconded , to propose an amendment to the same . " He said , that it seemed , from circumstances that had lately occurred , that Grand Lodge had but a very qualified power in dealing with the reports of the several Boards , and the authorities were at variance with regard to the extent of it On the occasion of the last meeting of Grand Lodge , Bro . Green had enquired of the Grand Master if it were competent for him to to move that a certain portion of the report of the Board of General Purposes be not adopted , and he

was told that it was . Consequent on that decision of his lordship , a conversation took place between him and the Grand Registrar , and the result of it was , that he was induced to reverse his own ruling . The M . W . GRAND MASTER wished to set Bro . Whitmore right . He had not at all reversed his decision . He clearly stated that Bro . Green had that right , but that was not the time for him to exercise it . Bro . WHITMORE said he stood corrected ; but the mere fact of a difference of opinion between his lordship and the Grand Registrar—Bro . ROXBURGH , G . Reg ., —No , I hope you will not say that .

Bro . WHITMORE—The impression of the Brethren was ! that there was a difference of opinion . Bro . ROXBURGH , G . Reg ., I am not liable for impressions . Bro . WHITMORE said he did not find fault with those pleasurable interruptions ; at the same time it might be as well that the worthy Brother should hear him to the end and then explain . ( Hear , hear . ) It bad been his opinion that there was not a coincidence of views between them . His experience of public bodies was , that when a report of a committee was presented to themit became

, their property to deal with it as they might think fit , and therefore it was that he brought forward the present motion . He thought the responsibility of deciding how far these reports might be discussed , should not be imposed upon the G . M ., but that Grand Lodge itself should do so . He had another reason for his resolution . It was , that he was jealous of the privileges of Grand Lodge . ( Hear , hear . ) As they had the power of making laws , so they had the power of dealing with their defects . His resolution went to make that power distinct . When a report from any committee

came before them , it should be their business to receive , improve , amend , or alter it , in any way they thought proper , such amendment having reference to the subject matter of the report . Here he felt that his notice was detective ; but if any Brother would add to it as an amendment , the words he had mentioned , namely , " such amendment having reference to the subject matter of the report , " he should most \ villingly support him . Bro . BINCKES seconded the resolution , and confirmed the statement that the impression in Grand Lodge wasthat there was a

, difference of opinion between the M . W . Grand Master and the G . Reg . The resolution would be more satisfactory if words were interpolated , giving them a right to move upon all communications as well as the reports of the committees . Bro . ROXBURGH again explained that it was only where Grand

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