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  • May 4, 1878
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  • CORRESPONDENCE.
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The Freemason's Chronicle, May 4, 1878: Page 6

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Correspondence.

CORRESPONDENCE .

We do not hold ourselves responsible for the opinions of owr Correspondents . We cannot undertake to return rejected communications . All Letters must bear the name and address of the Writer , not necessarily for publication , but as a guarantee of good faith .

THE SECRETARYSHIP OP THE GIRLS' SCHOOL . To the Editor of the FREEMASON ' S CHRONICLE . DEAR Sin AND BROTHER , —A report having been circulated that I have withdrawn my candidature for the Secretaryship , will you kindly contradict this , as such a statement is entirely void of foundation .

I am , Dear Sir and Brother , Yours faithfully and fraternally , F . R . W . HEDGES Freemasons' Hall , 2 nd May 1878 .

Proxy Voting.

PROXY VOTING .

To the Editor 0 / T HE FREEMASON ' S CHRONICLE . DEAR SIR AND BROTHER , —I havo been spoken to by several Yorkshire brethren on the subject of Proxy Voting at tho coming election for Secretary of tho Girls' School , and I certainly think that it would

be only an net of common justice to Provincial Masons to permit them to record their votes in tho manner suggested . Ifc would bo utterly unreasonable to expect us to attend the ordinary elections of pupils in order to record our votes , and why should wo bo expected to do so in tho case of the election of Secretary ?

I am , yours fraternally , A YORKSHIRE W . M . 2 nd May 1878 .

To the Editor of TnE FREEMASON ' S CHRONICLE . DEAR SIR AND BROTHER , —I have read with considerable attention the letters on this subject which havo appeared in your valuable journal , and fully recognising , as all must , tho great injustice done to the Provinces by tho system of personal voting , I do not see how the law can be altered for this election . There is a third course

open , and ono which will recommend itself to every one who has tho good of our Institutions at heart . Ifc is this . If tho voting must be personal , the votes can be recorded at various centres in England , on the samo principle as at a parliamentary election for a county . The Provincial Grand Secretaries of each Province can act as deputy Chairmen , aud receive tho

balloting papers , which thoy can transmit to tho Chairman 111 London , protected of course by various seals . The Chairman will , after the scrutiny and counting of voting papers , declare tho result of tho poll . This gives the Provincial brethren a chance of recording their votes , and does not practically disoufranchiso them , as tho present system docs . Wo would all think it a

great hardship if in a County Election a voter living in Barrow-in-Furness had to go to Manchester to vote , but hero is something still more monstrous . A Life Governor living in Berwick-on-Tweed or Cornwall is obliged to go to London to record his vote , or else is debarred from exercising his right of choice . As our Institntions mainly depend on voluntary donations for their

maintenance and support , it is above all things necessary to conciliate those from whom wo hope to receivo subscriptions and donations , and the success of tho Institution mainly depends upon the energy and tact which is bronght to bear upon tho ever increasing body of the newly-initiated by those who advocate tho claims of Masonic charity , the chief of whom are the Secretaries of the various Institutions .

I must submit to you tho extreme importance of the vital question—Who is to be the next Secretary ? aud my earnest wish that every brother , Metropolitan and Provincial , will look carefully into a matter which may for many years to come affect the best interests of the Girls' School .

Many of our Provincial brethren take the deepest interest iu the well-being of the Schools , but cannot afford time or expense to go to London to vote on this question , which is all important to them , and I certainly think the privilege might be accorded to them of being able to vote for their own choice , in their own Province . I am , yours fraternally , A CHAIRMAN OF A PROVINCIAL CHARITY COMMITTEE

To the Editor of THE FREEMASON ' CHRONICLE , BEAU SIR AND BROTHER , — Thero aro many of us who feel with " Fair Play" and Bro . Constable regarding proxy voting at the coming election of Secretary , nor do wo think that there need bo any difficulty in the matter . I am , yours fraternall y , ONE OF MANY ,

To the Editor of the FREEMASON ' CHRONICLE . DEAU SIR AND BROTHER , —Your correspondents , Bro . Constable and "Fair Piny , " havo called attention to the disabilities of country voters iu regard to the approaching election of a Secretary to the

Proxy Voting.

Girls School . If such exist , and I admit that your correspondents have fully made out their case , our country brethren who dosiro to vote " must do so under unequal conditions as compared with London brethren . " It seems to me , however , that , to be consistent , your two

correspondents , who cry out against our country brethren being hindered front the exercise 0 / a privilege , should go a step further , and claim for them equality with Londoners in the performance of a duty . Such as is now cast alike upon Masters of Town and Country Lodges under the existing constitution of the Lodgo of Benevolence . Yours fraternally , 29 th April 1878 . 11 . F . GOULD .

"Tolerance" And The French Question Once More.

"TOLERANCE" AND THE FRENCH QUESTION ONCE MORE .

To the Editor of THE FREEMASON ' CHRONICLE . DEAR SIR AND BROTHER , —I do not proposo to comment at any

length on Bro . Jacob Norton's latest conrteous communication to your columns . I do not think it would bo very profitable ; that is , I do not imagine , if tho controversy bo further prolonged , thoro is tho slightest probability we shall come nearer to an agreement , or that either of us will succeed iu convincing tho other ; and for this reason . There is , to start with , an essential differenco in tho naturo of tho

basis on which each of us rest our argnments . To give one instance only . His definition of morality differs materially from mino It is impossible , therefore , to argue until a common understanding has first of all been arrived at , as to what wo aro arguing abont . Thus brother Norton asks , If atheists are necessarily stupid and immoral ? To which I answer , By no moans , if by " stupid " is meant " meant wanting in

sense , and by " immoral , " not prone to lying , stealing , adultery , and other sins of a like charactor . But I do not take Anderson ' s expres . sion " stupid atheist , " in its ordinary souse , but as convoying the same meaning as the passage I quoted from the Psalms . " Tho fool hath said in his heart there is no God . " Here " fool , " I take ifc , does not mean a person without sense , but an arrogant , self-sufficient , and

dogmatic kind of person , who lays down his opinions tyrannically , and will brook no sort of argument in contradiction . Again , by " the word immoral" I mean to express , and I argue that Anderson did mean to express , not simply one who is not a liar or a thief , bufc one who fails in some essential particulars in the duties he owes towards his Creator and his fellow-creatnros ; who—to be moro precise—refuses

to pay that respectful homage to tho Creator which He has a right to expect , and who declines to be governed by the ordinary obligations which suffice to bind all other men . I can quite conceive of such a person that he is a truth-telling man , that he recognises tho distinction between meum and tuum , but I cannot regard him as a " moral" mau for all that . Thus , until Bro . Norton and I can agree

to lay down ono common acceptation for the terms " stupid" and "immoral , " it is impossiblo we can argue profitably . As to Bro . Norton ' s other question , What harm to Masonry will there be iu admitting a " moral atheist ? " who , I take it , must in tho nature of things be an impossiblo kind of being . Well , tho harm is , that by doing so wo are destroying tho fundamental principles of tho

Craft , as laid down by the founders of our Speculative system . It is very well for Bro . Norton to say , these founders " shared the common prejudices of tho vulgar" against atheists , bufc let us at least give Anderson , Desaguliers , and their compeers , tho credit of knowing what they were about , when they formulated tho new sytem . They saw tho injustice of excluding men from Freemasonry on the score of

religion . Anderson himself was a Scotch Presbyterian , while Desaguliers was an Anglican ; but they took no heed of the atheist except to denounce him , for , as far as I can imagine , this reason , that thoy did not understand how it was possible for a truly moral man to be such . They enlarged the scope of Freemasonry which , in the operative period , was purely Christian , but thoy shuddered at the bare idea of

destroying tho religions character of tho Craft . We in England who have had our charges , & c , & c , handed down to us through successive generations , aro of tho same mind , and what is of tho greatest importance , wo have , in accord with us , the whole of mankind through all ages from tho creation till now , with tho exception of au inlinitesimally small number , who deny aud have always denied , tho

possibility of there being no God . Bro . Norton has admitted that the numbers of atheists is very small . Why , then , I ask , should we be required to alter our Constitutions and stultify the Masonic teaching of all ages at tho dictation of a few ? Why aro we to be denied our undoubted privilege of defining tho principles on which our Society is based ? Why , if it is conceded

that wo have the right of excluding "immoral" men , should wo be denied tho still further and hi gher privilege wo in this country havo always exercised , that of excluding irreligious men . Wo have never required candidates to stato tho nature of their relifions belief . We strictl y forbid tho discussion of religious questions in our Lodges . But wo do not admit those who deny God . This is not

bigotry . By excluding them we arc acting in obedience to the principles of Masonry . In his remarks on my statement , that , there is no antagonism between religion and Masonry , I am afraid Bro . Norton will have to pardon me for saying that ho has weakened his case very considerably . He has confounded together " Religion in the Abstract " with "Religion in tho Concrete . " The former means simply tho

worship of God , and will include all forms of religions worshi p , while tho latter is confined to ono specific form , as when Bro . Norton may speak of his religion or I of mine . So with virtue and vico . is the case may bo , thero is virtue ( or vice ) in the abstract , and virtue ( or vice ) in the concrete ; the former general , tho latter particular . I cannot help saying that , logically , it is absurd to lay it down that because the Roman Catholics or the Trinitarians and others have denied there is any religious principle iu Freemasonry .

“The Freemason's Chronicle: 1878-05-04, Page 6” Masonic Periodicals Online, Library and Museum of Freemasonry, 13 May 2025, django:8000/periodicals/fcn/issues/fcn_04051878/page/6/.
  • List
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Title Category Page
MASONIC PORTRAITS. (No. 55.) Article 1
GRAND CHAPTER. Article 2
FREEMASONRY IN MASSACHUSETTS. Article 2
THE TIMES AND FREEMASONRY. Article 3
REVIEWS. Article 4
Untitled Ad 4
PROVINCIAL GRAND LODGE OF WEST YORKSHIRE. Article 4
WAS POPE PIUS IX. A MASON? Article 5
CORRESPONDENCE. Article 6
PROXY VOTING. Article 6
"TOLERANCE" AND THE FRENCH QUESTION ONCE MORE. Article 6
" URIM" AND "THUMMIM." Article 7
Old Warrants Article 7
Untitled Ad 7
Untitled Ad 8
Untitled Ad 8
Untitled Ad 8
Untitled Ad 8
Untitled Ad 8
Untitled Ad 8
Untitled Ad 8
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Untitled Ad 8
Untitled Ad 8
Untitled Article 9
OUR WEEKLY BUDGET. Article 9
ANECDOTES IN RELATION TO MILITARY MASONRY. Article 10
DIARY FOR THE WEEK. Article 11
NOTICES OF MEETINGS Article 12
KINGSTON, JAMAICA. Article 13
DISTRICT GRAND LODGE OF EAST JAMAICA. Article 13
Untitled Article 14
Untitled Ad 14
Untitled Article 14
Untitled Ad 14
Untitled Ad 15
Untitled Ad 15
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Correspondence.

CORRESPONDENCE .

We do not hold ourselves responsible for the opinions of owr Correspondents . We cannot undertake to return rejected communications . All Letters must bear the name and address of the Writer , not necessarily for publication , but as a guarantee of good faith .

THE SECRETARYSHIP OP THE GIRLS' SCHOOL . To the Editor of the FREEMASON ' S CHRONICLE . DEAR Sin AND BROTHER , —A report having been circulated that I have withdrawn my candidature for the Secretaryship , will you kindly contradict this , as such a statement is entirely void of foundation .

I am , Dear Sir and Brother , Yours faithfully and fraternally , F . R . W . HEDGES Freemasons' Hall , 2 nd May 1878 .

Proxy Voting.

PROXY VOTING .

To the Editor 0 / T HE FREEMASON ' S CHRONICLE . DEAR SIR AND BROTHER , —I havo been spoken to by several Yorkshire brethren on the subject of Proxy Voting at tho coming election for Secretary of tho Girls' School , and I certainly think that it would

be only an net of common justice to Provincial Masons to permit them to record their votes in tho manner suggested . Ifc would bo utterly unreasonable to expect us to attend the ordinary elections of pupils in order to record our votes , and why should wo bo expected to do so in tho case of the election of Secretary ?

I am , yours fraternally , A YORKSHIRE W . M . 2 nd May 1878 .

To the Editor of TnE FREEMASON ' S CHRONICLE . DEAR SIR AND BROTHER , —I have read with considerable attention the letters on this subject which havo appeared in your valuable journal , and fully recognising , as all must , tho great injustice done to the Provinces by tho system of personal voting , I do not see how the law can be altered for this election . There is a third course

open , and ono which will recommend itself to every one who has tho good of our Institutions at heart . Ifc is this . If tho voting must be personal , the votes can be recorded at various centres in England , on the samo principle as at a parliamentary election for a county . The Provincial Grand Secretaries of each Province can act as deputy Chairmen , aud receive tho

balloting papers , which thoy can transmit to tho Chairman 111 London , protected of course by various seals . The Chairman will , after the scrutiny and counting of voting papers , declare tho result of tho poll . This gives the Provincial brethren a chance of recording their votes , and does not practically disoufranchiso them , as tho present system docs . Wo would all think it a

great hardship if in a County Election a voter living in Barrow-in-Furness had to go to Manchester to vote , but hero is something still more monstrous . A Life Governor living in Berwick-on-Tweed or Cornwall is obliged to go to London to record his vote , or else is debarred from exercising his right of choice . As our Institntions mainly depend on voluntary donations for their

maintenance and support , it is above all things necessary to conciliate those from whom wo hope to receivo subscriptions and donations , and the success of tho Institution mainly depends upon the energy and tact which is bronght to bear upon tho ever increasing body of the newly-initiated by those who advocate tho claims of Masonic charity , the chief of whom are the Secretaries of the various Institutions .

I must submit to you tho extreme importance of the vital question—Who is to be the next Secretary ? aud my earnest wish that every brother , Metropolitan and Provincial , will look carefully into a matter which may for many years to come affect the best interests of the Girls' School .

Many of our Provincial brethren take the deepest interest iu the well-being of the Schools , but cannot afford time or expense to go to London to vote on this question , which is all important to them , and I certainly think the privilege might be accorded to them of being able to vote for their own choice , in their own Province . I am , yours fraternally , A CHAIRMAN OF A PROVINCIAL CHARITY COMMITTEE

To the Editor of THE FREEMASON ' CHRONICLE , BEAU SIR AND BROTHER , — Thero aro many of us who feel with " Fair Play" and Bro . Constable regarding proxy voting at the coming election of Secretary , nor do wo think that there need bo any difficulty in the matter . I am , yours fraternall y , ONE OF MANY ,

To the Editor of the FREEMASON ' CHRONICLE . DEAU SIR AND BROTHER , —Your correspondents , Bro . Constable and "Fair Piny , " havo called attention to the disabilities of country voters iu regard to the approaching election of a Secretary to the

Proxy Voting.

Girls School . If such exist , and I admit that your correspondents have fully made out their case , our country brethren who dosiro to vote " must do so under unequal conditions as compared with London brethren . " It seems to me , however , that , to be consistent , your two

correspondents , who cry out against our country brethren being hindered front the exercise 0 / a privilege , should go a step further , and claim for them equality with Londoners in the performance of a duty . Such as is now cast alike upon Masters of Town and Country Lodges under the existing constitution of the Lodgo of Benevolence . Yours fraternally , 29 th April 1878 . 11 . F . GOULD .

"Tolerance" And The French Question Once More.

"TOLERANCE" AND THE FRENCH QUESTION ONCE MORE .

To the Editor of THE FREEMASON ' CHRONICLE . DEAR SIR AND BROTHER , —I do not proposo to comment at any

length on Bro . Jacob Norton's latest conrteous communication to your columns . I do not think it would bo very profitable ; that is , I do not imagine , if tho controversy bo further prolonged , thoro is tho slightest probability we shall come nearer to an agreement , or that either of us will succeed iu convincing tho other ; and for this reason . There is , to start with , an essential differenco in tho naturo of tho

basis on which each of us rest our argnments . To give one instance only . His definition of morality differs materially from mino It is impossible , therefore , to argue until a common understanding has first of all been arrived at , as to what wo aro arguing abont . Thus brother Norton asks , If atheists are necessarily stupid and immoral ? To which I answer , By no moans , if by " stupid " is meant " meant wanting in

sense , and by " immoral , " not prone to lying , stealing , adultery , and other sins of a like charactor . But I do not take Anderson ' s expres . sion " stupid atheist , " in its ordinary souse , but as convoying the same meaning as the passage I quoted from the Psalms . " Tho fool hath said in his heart there is no God . " Here " fool , " I take ifc , does not mean a person without sense , but an arrogant , self-sufficient , and

dogmatic kind of person , who lays down his opinions tyrannically , and will brook no sort of argument in contradiction . Again , by " the word immoral" I mean to express , and I argue that Anderson did mean to express , not simply one who is not a liar or a thief , bufc one who fails in some essential particulars in the duties he owes towards his Creator and his fellow-creatnros ; who—to be moro precise—refuses

to pay that respectful homage to tho Creator which He has a right to expect , and who declines to be governed by the ordinary obligations which suffice to bind all other men . I can quite conceive of such a person that he is a truth-telling man , that he recognises tho distinction between meum and tuum , but I cannot regard him as a " moral" mau for all that . Thus , until Bro . Norton and I can agree

to lay down ono common acceptation for the terms " stupid" and "immoral , " it is impossiblo we can argue profitably . As to Bro . Norton ' s other question , What harm to Masonry will there be iu admitting a " moral atheist ? " who , I take it , must in tho nature of things be an impossiblo kind of being . Well , tho harm is , that by doing so wo are destroying tho fundamental principles of tho

Craft , as laid down by the founders of our Speculative system . It is very well for Bro . Norton to say , these founders " shared the common prejudices of tho vulgar" against atheists , bufc let us at least give Anderson , Desaguliers , and their compeers , tho credit of knowing what they were about , when they formulated tho new sytem . They saw tho injustice of excluding men from Freemasonry on the score of

religion . Anderson himself was a Scotch Presbyterian , while Desaguliers was an Anglican ; but they took no heed of the atheist except to denounce him , for , as far as I can imagine , this reason , that thoy did not understand how it was possible for a truly moral man to be such . They enlarged the scope of Freemasonry which , in the operative period , was purely Christian , but thoy shuddered at the bare idea of

destroying tho religions character of tho Craft . We in England who have had our charges , & c , & c , handed down to us through successive generations , aro of tho same mind , and what is of tho greatest importance , wo have , in accord with us , the whole of mankind through all ages from tho creation till now , with tho exception of au inlinitesimally small number , who deny aud have always denied , tho

possibility of there being no God . Bro . Norton has admitted that the numbers of atheists is very small . Why , then , I ask , should we be required to alter our Constitutions and stultify the Masonic teaching of all ages at tho dictation of a few ? Why aro we to be denied our undoubted privilege of defining tho principles on which our Society is based ? Why , if it is conceded

that wo have the right of excluding "immoral" men , should wo be denied tho still further and hi gher privilege wo in this country havo always exercised , that of excluding irreligious men . Wo have never required candidates to stato tho nature of their relifions belief . We strictl y forbid tho discussion of religious questions in our Lodges . But wo do not admit those who deny God . This is not

bigotry . By excluding them we arc acting in obedience to the principles of Masonry . In his remarks on my statement , that , there is no antagonism between religion and Masonry , I am afraid Bro . Norton will have to pardon me for saying that ho has weakened his case very considerably . He has confounded together " Religion in the Abstract " with "Religion in tho Concrete . " The former means simply tho

worship of God , and will include all forms of religions worshi p , while tho latter is confined to ono specific form , as when Bro . Norton may speak of his religion or I of mine . So with virtue and vico . is the case may bo , thero is virtue ( or vice ) in the abstract , and virtue ( or vice ) in the concrete ; the former general , tho latter particular . I cannot help saying that , logically , it is absurd to lay it down that because the Roman Catholics or the Trinitarians and others have denied there is any religious principle iu Freemasonry .

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