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Article CORRESPONDENCE. Page 1 of 1 Article THE YORKSHIRE LODGES. Page 1 of 1 Article THE YORKSHIRE LODGES. Page 1 of 1 Article YORKSHIRE PROVINCIAL GRAND LODGES. Page 1 of 1
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Correspondence.
CORRESPONDENCE .
We do "ftot hold ourselves responsible for the oyiuwits o / our Cor . respondents . All l . t' fers must hear the name and address of the Writer , not necessarily for publication , but as a guarantee of good faith . We cannot undertake to return rejected communications .
THE LONDON MUTUAL MASONIC VOTING ASSOCIATION .
To the Editor of the FREEMASON ' S CHRONICLE . DEAR SIR AND BROTHER , —It may interest some of your readers to be reminded of the advantage of combination over the system that has bunn so Ions : ia vogue in London in respect to the elections to our Mnsnnic Institutions . I find , from tho official books , that down
to Juno 1881 , and we cannot come nearer at present , owing to all the works not bnii s yet published , we had in the Aged Masonic Institution , and the Boys' and Pi iris' Schools , a total of 803 annuitants and scholars , of which nnmber the Provincial brethren had secured , by combination and unity , a majority of 307—thus putting the
individual effort and independency of tho Loudon brethren thoroughly in the rear . The Masons in the Provinces are wise in their generation , and I , for one , am willing to give them every praise . Surely
so srood an example is worth following . An examination of the figures annexed may give some idea of the great necessity of London more generously supporting its own Masonio cases .
The votes issued for the April election for the Boys' School were 49 , 890 , ancl votes brought forward from October 1884—7043 ; about 4400 of these belonged to London , the remainder to the Provinces . At the conclusion of the polling the conntry succeeded in placing 18 candidates , with 31 , 910 votes , and 1859 votes to the credit of nine
cases to bo carried forward . London placed—after a tremendous effort—eight successful cases , with 13 , 919 votes , and 4095 to the credit of eight cases standing over to the election in October next . This shows a tremendous difference . If wo look through the lists of votes , & c , published by the Institution , we shall find very little
difference between tho voting strength of London and the Provinces . Now , I wonld liko to ask , why so great a difference exists between the efforts made by Londoners and the efforts of our country brethren . Kent , with 2192 rocorded as her strength , polled for two successful candidates 3692 votes . Warwickshire , with 1238 votes
recorded , was successful with 3644 votes for two cases ; while Hertfordshire , with only 208 recorded , was also successful in securing the return of two candidates , polling 2738 votes . Somo of our London brethren have expressed a desire nofc to part with the control they possess over their votes , although they see the disastrous result
of individual effort . Now , in this Association , the final result , and tho case or cases to be supported , is entirely within the control of tho subscribing members , and it is nofc controlled by any clique . Will thev not emulate their Provincial brethren ? I am afraid I
have trespassed at too groat a length on yonr valuable space , and therefore conclude with asking the Londoners how long will they rest satisfied—having about equal voting strength with the Provincesto plod , plod on , being always behind ; yet having a voting strength of upwards of 22 , 6 * 00 votes ?
I am , Dear Sir and Brother , Yours faithfully and fraternally , G . COOP .
The Yorkshire Lodges.
THE YORKSHIRE LODGES .
To the Editor ofthe FREEMASON ' CHRONICLE . DEAR SIR AND BROTHER , —Kindly allow me a little space to reply to Bro . J . Eamsden Eiley's letter , of the 16 th instant , in your last
issue , in reference to the origiu of the present Lodge No . 208 , at Dewsbury . I regret to differ from Bro . Riley , but " the records are certainly against his numeration . I will trace them as briefly aa I can .
Firsfc : Bro . Eiley claims the present No . 208 to have originally been No . 373 . To this I demur ; and here is the record . No . 373 was warranted on 10 th September 176 G , and met at the King ' s Head
Tavern and Coffee House , Islington . It became No . 308 in 1770 , and does nofc appear in any List after 1772 . In fact ifc ceased to exist , and is amongst the number of Lodges stated to have been " erased for not conforming to the Laws . "
Bro . Edey , in his letter , calls this Lodge " 3 Grand Principles , Islington . " I can find no evidence that No . 373 of 10 th September 1766 ever had snch a name . The engraved lists do not at all favour such a supposition , or even that the Lodse ever had any distinctive name beyond the sign of the house in which ifc met .
Second : The next link in Bro . Riley ' s chain is that No . 373 of 1766 became No . 249 in 1780 , 250 in 1781 , and 283 in 1792 . Here again fche records state something entirely different , namely , No . 249 of 1780 was constituted on 4 th December 1766 as No . 380 , and met at the Crown and Thistle , near Tower-hill . Ifc became No . 315 in
1770 , 249 in 1780 , 250 in 1781 , 210 in 1792 , 264 in 1814 , 186 in 1832 , and 160 in 1863 , which number it still retains , as the Lodge Ol Trne Friendship , Rochford , Essex . This Lodge , which obtained its Centenary Warrant in June 1873 , has certainly never been
1 seated in Yorkshire , or connected directly or indirectly with any Yorkshire Lodge . Third : Notwithstanding Bro . Riley's observations , tho evidences compel me to conclude that the present No . 208 is nofc of earlier date than 1772 , and this is its record . Ib was constituted by the name of
The Yorkshire Lodges.
the Lodge of Unanimity , No . 436 , on 21 sfc November 1772 , and met at the Queen ' s Head , Gray ' s Inn Gate , Holborn . It became No . 343 in 1780 , 344 in 1781 , 283 in 1792 , 358 in 1814 , 251 in 1832 , and 208 ( its present number ) in 1863 . It was called tbe Master Mariners ' Lodge in 1790 , and took its present name—Lodge of the three Grand
Principles—in 1793 . The only point of similarity between No . 373 and No . 436 is that they both met at the King ' s Head Tavern , Islington , but as there was a lapse of 22 years betweeu such events that surely is no evidence of identity or continuity . No . 436 removed in 1803 to Dewsbury , as stated by Bro . Eiloy , where ifc still
. I do not quite understand , and should like Bro . Riley to furnish some evidence in proof of , his statement thafc " Unanimity , 436 , of 21 st November 1772 was by no means unanimous as to what its nnmber ought to be , or had a right to be , between 1770
[ i . e ., two years before its Constitution ] and 1792 . " Surely the Warrant of 21 sfc November 1772 with its number 436 ought to be conclusive on that point . The importance of having this disputed matter satisfactorily cleared up must be my apology for occupying so much of yonr
valuable space . The information given above ( whioh I have extracted from the MSS . of my forthcoming work ) will , I trust , be useful at any rate towards the settlement of a question abont whicb there has been evidently some confusion .
I should like to take this opportunity of again expressing my appreciation of Bro . Riley's book as a whole , and with the exception of the few disputed points I heartily concur in your reviewer's estimate of " The Yorkshire Lodges . "
Yours fraternally , JNO . LANE , P . M . 1402 . Torquay , 19 fch September 1885 .
Yorkshire Provincial Grand Lodges.
YORKSHIRE PROVINCIAL GRAND LODGES .
To the Editor of the FREEMASON ' CHRONICLE . DEAR SIR AND BROTHER . —Herewith I enclose " Richard Rich ' Circular , calling Provincial Grand Lodge meeting afc York , of 18 th January 1804 . Had the original been loose , I would not have hesitated to seud it ,
but for eighteen years I have made it a practice fco preserve all suoh documentary evidence , by pasting all I meet with in guard-books . In explanation of the first footnote , ifc is as well to state that from 1750 to the Union , and even later , it was a common practice in Yorkshire to hold reqular meetings at other hostelries than thafc
named in fche Warrant . The latter was held to possess extraordinary powers , and legalise all proceedings under the sanction of its presence . It was frequently carried home by tho Master after the Lodge meeting , and he sometimes lent it in order to give a muchcoveted authority to Masonic meetings of a somewhat mixed
character . In 1803 these erratic habits had become a perfect nuisance to Grand Secretary , and I have read William White ' s letters complaining
bitterly ofthe impossibility of keeping a proper Register unless the Provincial Grand Lodge could control these movements of Lodges . I do not think , however , these customs were confined to Yorkshire , but belonged to the period .
Yours fraternally , J . RAMSDEN RILEY . Bradford , 22 nd September 1885 .
PROVINCIAL GRAND LODGE FOR THE COUNTY OT YORK . RICHARD RICH , Esq ., P . G . M .
Right Worshipfnl , You are hereby acquainted , that the Provincial Grand Master will hold a Provincial Grand Lodge and General Communication for the said County , in the Provincial Grand Lodge-Room , Blake Street , York , on Wednesday , the 18 th day of January next , precisely at
Twelve o clock at Noon ; when and where the attendance of yourself and the Wardens of your Lodge is required . At ; the same time and place yoa must produce to the Provincial Grand Master a List of fche Members of your Lodge , and pay into the hands of the Provincial Grand Treasnrer , or his Assistants , the sum of two guineas from the
fund of your Lodge , towards the defrayment of present contingencies , and likewise such monies as shall be due therefrom to the Charity , Hall , and Liquidation Funds , in order thafc they may be transmitted
and paid into each respective fund of the Graud Lodge previous to the next Quarterly Communication , which will be holden afc Freemasons' Hall , Londou , on Wednesday the 8 th day of February following .
By order of the P . G . M . JOHN WATSON , York , 18 fch Dec . 1803 . Provincial Grand Secretary . An answer is expected ( post-paid ) on or before the 1 st of January , and say what number of Brethren from your Lodge is likelv to
attend , and inform me at the same time at what house , and on what evenings , your Lodge is usually held . 8 ^ " Dinner Tickets , 10 s 6 d each , exclusive of the two guineas to
be paid from your Lodge . * # * Any brother , being a Member of a regular Lodge under the Constitution of tho Grand Lodge of England , may appear in the Provincial Grand Lodge , but is nob entitled to vote .
Copied by me , from the Original in my possession , 19 th September 1885 . J . RAMSDEN RILEY .
Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.
Correspondence.
CORRESPONDENCE .
We do "ftot hold ourselves responsible for the oyiuwits o / our Cor . respondents . All l . t' fers must hear the name and address of the Writer , not necessarily for publication , but as a guarantee of good faith . We cannot undertake to return rejected communications .
THE LONDON MUTUAL MASONIC VOTING ASSOCIATION .
To the Editor of the FREEMASON ' S CHRONICLE . DEAR SIR AND BROTHER , —It may interest some of your readers to be reminded of the advantage of combination over the system that has bunn so Ions : ia vogue in London in respect to the elections to our Mnsnnic Institutions . I find , from tho official books , that down
to Juno 1881 , and we cannot come nearer at present , owing to all the works not bnii s yet published , we had in the Aged Masonic Institution , and the Boys' and Pi iris' Schools , a total of 803 annuitants and scholars , of which nnmber the Provincial brethren had secured , by combination and unity , a majority of 307—thus putting the
individual effort and independency of tho Loudon brethren thoroughly in the rear . The Masons in the Provinces are wise in their generation , and I , for one , am willing to give them every praise . Surely
so srood an example is worth following . An examination of the figures annexed may give some idea of the great necessity of London more generously supporting its own Masonio cases .
The votes issued for the April election for the Boys' School were 49 , 890 , ancl votes brought forward from October 1884—7043 ; about 4400 of these belonged to London , the remainder to the Provinces . At the conclusion of the polling the conntry succeeded in placing 18 candidates , with 31 , 910 votes , and 1859 votes to the credit of nine
cases to bo carried forward . London placed—after a tremendous effort—eight successful cases , with 13 , 919 votes , and 4095 to the credit of eight cases standing over to the election in October next . This shows a tremendous difference . If wo look through the lists of votes , & c , published by the Institution , we shall find very little
difference between tho voting strength of London and the Provinces . Now , I wonld liko to ask , why so great a difference exists between the efforts made by Londoners and the efforts of our country brethren . Kent , with 2192 rocorded as her strength , polled for two successful candidates 3692 votes . Warwickshire , with 1238 votes
recorded , was successful with 3644 votes for two cases ; while Hertfordshire , with only 208 recorded , was also successful in securing the return of two candidates , polling 2738 votes . Somo of our London brethren have expressed a desire nofc to part with the control they possess over their votes , although they see the disastrous result
of individual effort . Now , in this Association , the final result , and tho case or cases to be supported , is entirely within the control of tho subscribing members , and it is nofc controlled by any clique . Will thev not emulate their Provincial brethren ? I am afraid I
have trespassed at too groat a length on yonr valuable space , and therefore conclude with asking the Londoners how long will they rest satisfied—having about equal voting strength with the Provincesto plod , plod on , being always behind ; yet having a voting strength of upwards of 22 , 6 * 00 votes ?
I am , Dear Sir and Brother , Yours faithfully and fraternally , G . COOP .
The Yorkshire Lodges.
THE YORKSHIRE LODGES .
To the Editor ofthe FREEMASON ' CHRONICLE . DEAR SIR AND BROTHER , —Kindly allow me a little space to reply to Bro . J . Eamsden Eiley's letter , of the 16 th instant , in your last
issue , in reference to the origiu of the present Lodge No . 208 , at Dewsbury . I regret to differ from Bro . Riley , but " the records are certainly against his numeration . I will trace them as briefly aa I can .
Firsfc : Bro . Eiley claims the present No . 208 to have originally been No . 373 . To this I demur ; and here is the record . No . 373 was warranted on 10 th September 176 G , and met at the King ' s Head
Tavern and Coffee House , Islington . It became No . 308 in 1770 , and does nofc appear in any List after 1772 . In fact ifc ceased to exist , and is amongst the number of Lodges stated to have been " erased for not conforming to the Laws . "
Bro . Edey , in his letter , calls this Lodge " 3 Grand Principles , Islington . " I can find no evidence that No . 373 of 10 th September 1766 ever had snch a name . The engraved lists do not at all favour such a supposition , or even that the Lodse ever had any distinctive name beyond the sign of the house in which ifc met .
Second : The next link in Bro . Riley ' s chain is that No . 373 of 1766 became No . 249 in 1780 , 250 in 1781 , and 283 in 1792 . Here again fche records state something entirely different , namely , No . 249 of 1780 was constituted on 4 th December 1766 as No . 380 , and met at the Crown and Thistle , near Tower-hill . Ifc became No . 315 in
1770 , 249 in 1780 , 250 in 1781 , 210 in 1792 , 264 in 1814 , 186 in 1832 , and 160 in 1863 , which number it still retains , as the Lodge Ol Trne Friendship , Rochford , Essex . This Lodge , which obtained its Centenary Warrant in June 1873 , has certainly never been
1 seated in Yorkshire , or connected directly or indirectly with any Yorkshire Lodge . Third : Notwithstanding Bro . Riley's observations , tho evidences compel me to conclude that the present No . 208 is nofc of earlier date than 1772 , and this is its record . Ib was constituted by the name of
The Yorkshire Lodges.
the Lodge of Unanimity , No . 436 , on 21 sfc November 1772 , and met at the Queen ' s Head , Gray ' s Inn Gate , Holborn . It became No . 343 in 1780 , 344 in 1781 , 283 in 1792 , 358 in 1814 , 251 in 1832 , and 208 ( its present number ) in 1863 . It was called tbe Master Mariners ' Lodge in 1790 , and took its present name—Lodge of the three Grand
Principles—in 1793 . The only point of similarity between No . 373 and No . 436 is that they both met at the King ' s Head Tavern , Islington , but as there was a lapse of 22 years betweeu such events that surely is no evidence of identity or continuity . No . 436 removed in 1803 to Dewsbury , as stated by Bro . Eiloy , where ifc still
. I do not quite understand , and should like Bro . Riley to furnish some evidence in proof of , his statement thafc " Unanimity , 436 , of 21 st November 1772 was by no means unanimous as to what its nnmber ought to be , or had a right to be , between 1770
[ i . e ., two years before its Constitution ] and 1792 . " Surely the Warrant of 21 sfc November 1772 with its number 436 ought to be conclusive on that point . The importance of having this disputed matter satisfactorily cleared up must be my apology for occupying so much of yonr
valuable space . The information given above ( whioh I have extracted from the MSS . of my forthcoming work ) will , I trust , be useful at any rate towards the settlement of a question abont whicb there has been evidently some confusion .
I should like to take this opportunity of again expressing my appreciation of Bro . Riley's book as a whole , and with the exception of the few disputed points I heartily concur in your reviewer's estimate of " The Yorkshire Lodges . "
Yours fraternally , JNO . LANE , P . M . 1402 . Torquay , 19 fch September 1885 .
Yorkshire Provincial Grand Lodges.
YORKSHIRE PROVINCIAL GRAND LODGES .
To the Editor of the FREEMASON ' CHRONICLE . DEAR SIR AND BROTHER . —Herewith I enclose " Richard Rich ' Circular , calling Provincial Grand Lodge meeting afc York , of 18 th January 1804 . Had the original been loose , I would not have hesitated to seud it ,
but for eighteen years I have made it a practice fco preserve all suoh documentary evidence , by pasting all I meet with in guard-books . In explanation of the first footnote , ifc is as well to state that from 1750 to the Union , and even later , it was a common practice in Yorkshire to hold reqular meetings at other hostelries than thafc
named in fche Warrant . The latter was held to possess extraordinary powers , and legalise all proceedings under the sanction of its presence . It was frequently carried home by tho Master after the Lodge meeting , and he sometimes lent it in order to give a muchcoveted authority to Masonic meetings of a somewhat mixed
character . In 1803 these erratic habits had become a perfect nuisance to Grand Secretary , and I have read William White ' s letters complaining
bitterly ofthe impossibility of keeping a proper Register unless the Provincial Grand Lodge could control these movements of Lodges . I do not think , however , these customs were confined to Yorkshire , but belonged to the period .
Yours fraternally , J . RAMSDEN RILEY . Bradford , 22 nd September 1885 .
PROVINCIAL GRAND LODGE FOR THE COUNTY OT YORK . RICHARD RICH , Esq ., P . G . M .
Right Worshipfnl , You are hereby acquainted , that the Provincial Grand Master will hold a Provincial Grand Lodge and General Communication for the said County , in the Provincial Grand Lodge-Room , Blake Street , York , on Wednesday , the 18 th day of January next , precisely at
Twelve o clock at Noon ; when and where the attendance of yourself and the Wardens of your Lodge is required . At ; the same time and place yoa must produce to the Provincial Grand Master a List of fche Members of your Lodge , and pay into the hands of the Provincial Grand Treasnrer , or his Assistants , the sum of two guineas from the
fund of your Lodge , towards the defrayment of present contingencies , and likewise such monies as shall be due therefrom to the Charity , Hall , and Liquidation Funds , in order thafc they may be transmitted
and paid into each respective fund of the Graud Lodge previous to the next Quarterly Communication , which will be holden afc Freemasons' Hall , Londou , on Wednesday the 8 th day of February following .
By order of the P . G . M . JOHN WATSON , York , 18 fch Dec . 1803 . Provincial Grand Secretary . An answer is expected ( post-paid ) on or before the 1 st of January , and say what number of Brethren from your Lodge is likelv to
attend , and inform me at the same time at what house , and on what evenings , your Lodge is usually held . 8 ^ " Dinner Tickets , 10 s 6 d each , exclusive of the two guineas to
be paid from your Lodge . * # * Any brother , being a Member of a regular Lodge under the Constitution of tho Grand Lodge of England , may appear in the Provincial Grand Lodge , but is nob entitled to vote .
Copied by me , from the Original in my possession , 19 th September 1885 . J . RAMSDEN RILEY .