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Article SPECIAL GRAND LODGE. ← Page 3 of 3 Article SPECIAL GRAND LODGE. Page 3 of 3 Article THE GRAND MASTERS' PROPOSED VISIT TO YORK. Page 1 of 1
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Special Grand Lodge.
" all , " of the words " Present and Past , " and after " officers , " " Deputy Provincial Grand Masters , Provincial Grand Secretaries . " Clauses 58 and 59 passed unaltered . In clause 60 " eight" was substituted for " six " throughout . Clauses 61 and 62 no alteration . Bro . Sir J . B . MONCKTON said that to clause 6 3 an amendment was
proposed by adding the words " a resolution of the Grand Lodge at one Quarterly Communication if confirmed at the next ensuing meeting of Grand Lodge , becomes law . " The Board did not recommend that . —Bro . J AMES STEVENS said he was the mover of the amendment , which had been one of the old Constitutions , but had been eliminated from them , for what reason he did not know , but he thought it important that when a matter had
been solemnly discussed and resolved upon , and that resolution had been confirmed , it should become a law which all officers were bound to see cbsevved . —Bro . Sir J B . MONCKTON said that when laws were passed and confirmed they were laws of course , which no one— -not even the Grand Master—had any right to impede ; but the Board thought it rather against the dignity of Grand Lodge to say that that should be law what was law
already . —Bro . the Rev . J . SIMPSON intervened to raise the question of what was the proper definition of confirmation of the minutes , but the Chairman ruled him out of order , but waived his objection on condition that he would confine himself to the present . —Bro . the Rev . R . J . SIMPSON said he would confine himself to the present and the past , and referred to two decisions given from the chair , one favouring the view that confirmation meant
verification of record , and the other that confirmation was a resolution without which a law decided upon could not take effect . He contended that all resolutions of Grand Lodge , except such as related to money grants , should be finally decided at the lodge at which they were discussed and carried . —Bro . W . W . B . BEACH , Prov . Grand Master Hants and the Isle of Wight , could not agree with Bro . Simpson . Grand Lodge was always able to revise its
decision , and had frequently rejected a portion of the minutes which recorded something done at a previous meeting . He would give one instance . Twentyfive years ago it was decided at one Grand Lodge that the Mark Degree should be recognised by Grand Lodge ; that was carried by a large majority ; but at the next Grand Lodge that portion of the minutes was not confirmed . —Bro . J HAVERS , P . G . W ., was surprised at Bro . Stevens ' s proposal ,
which if made should have been proposed earlier , because the Book of Constitutions provided that no law could be made use of until it had been carried at one Grand Lodge and confirmed at the next . It was important that Grand Lodgeshould not betaken by surprise . As he understood it , minutes were put for confirmation for three reasons—first , to let the brethren not present know what had taken place ; secondly , to see whether they were correctly
recorded ; and , thirdly , that they might be ratified . —Bro . A . E . GLADWELL called attention to the fact that a year or two since , when a question was raised as to whether a brother was in order in moving the non-confirmation of the minutes , the Pro Grand Master had said that he had no hesitation in ruling that in so doing the brother in question was out of order . His own
opinion was that confirmation was equivalent to asking the brethren , " Do you now approve of the decision you then arrived at ? If not , you have now £ . n opportunity of reversing it . " —After a short reply from Bro . STEVENS thequestion wasput thattheclause stand unaltered , and was agreed to . —Bro . STEVENS said he was quite sure that the motion was nqt understood ; he had , in fact , voted against himself .
Clause 64 , no alteration ; also 65 , notwithstanding a proposal to omit it from the Constitutions . Clauses 66 to 71 were passed without alteration . —Bro . MONTAGUE GUEST said he sent in a suggested amendment of rule 66 by addition of the words " other than those sanctioned by the general Committee . " He sent that in for the purpose of preventing anv one being ruled out of . order
by the chair , a serious consideration when brethren came some hundreds of miles to attend Grand Lodge . —Sir J . B . MONCKTON could not recommend the alteration , which he considered an infringement of the rights of the Grand Master . It might by some accident happen that a notice of motion would emanate from the General Committee containing words of religious , political , international importance , when it would be proper that it should be
overruled . —T he Rev . C . J . MARTYN , Deputy Prov . Grand Master Norfolk , seconded Bro . GUEST ' S proposal . —Bro . MCINTYRE said this was not a new law , although the Prov . Grand Master for Dorset was considering it as such and as changing the universal practice of the Craft . He seemed to him to be curtailing the power of the chair , which would be useful in the event of any improper words in a notice having by accident been passed unnoticed by the General Committee . —
In putting the question , the PRO GRAND MASTER said he thought it right to say a few words himself . The proposed alteration would alter what had been the practice for 50 or 60 years , and it seemed to him that unless there were something more than mere theory to be advanced it was not advisable to take away a power which was not likely to be abused . —On being put to Grand Lodge the clause was passed without alteration . Clauses 67 to 71 were also passed unaltered .
Clause 72 was also passed unaltered , notwithstanding the proposition to insert the word " may" instead of " shall . " Clause 73 , no alteration . Clause 74 passed with substitution of "Wardens" for " officers . " Clause 75 , no alteration . Sir J MONCKTON said that , in clause 76 several alterations were
proposed ; those recommended by the Board were ; In the sixth line to add after the words , " Grand Master" " except in elections by ballot . " In the eighth line to substitute " one hand " for " one of his hands . " In the tenth line to add after the-word " counted" " the counting shall be conducted in the following manner ; " and then add the resolution passed in Grand Lodge in June , 1882 . What the Board did not recommend was the provision for proxy voting . —The clause , with these amendments , was passed , and proxy
voting rejected . Clause 77 , no alteration . Sir J MONCKTON said in clause 78 it was proposed to introduce 104 as 79 altered , so as to read " in colonies and foreign parts the terms District Grand Master and District Grand Lodge are used to distinguish such officers and bodies from Provincial Grand Masters and Provincial Grand Lodges as in England . "—This recommendation was agreed to .
Clause 79 passed , the insertion of the words " or in such remote part of the district as to render it impossible to communicate with him " being rejected . Bro . Sir J B . MONCKTON said in clause 80 there were several alterations deserving of attention . It was proposed that Provincial and District Grand Lodges may enact by their bye-laws that in addition to the above , the Past Masters out of the province or district who have joined lod ges in the province or district shall be members of Provincial or District Grand Lodge . —Bro , C . D , Hut DRURY spoke against the proposal . He
Special Grand Lodge.
thought it should not be permissive , but should either be withdrawn altogether or else made absolute . Bro . Drury went on to instance the hardship of a brother who was a Past Master , and had been obliged to move into another province , finding when he joined a lodge of that province that though a P . M . he ranked in the lodge with its youngest members . Moreover , he had no vote in Provincial Grand Lodge . Hundreds of P . Ms , were
affected by it , and it was a matter that gave more trouble in the provinces than any other . He would move that " A Past Master joining a lodge should be considered a P . M . of the lodge . " No notice of this amendment having been given it was ruled out of order . —Bro . the Rev . C . J . ARNOLD said that the proposal before the Grand Lod ge was proposed by the Province of Surrey , and the amendment was to this effect , that a note be placed
at the end of this particular section that that would be the position of a joining P . M ., because otherwise he would have been excluded from the membership and privilege of Grand Lodge . They therefore proposed that a P . M . of one province who joined a lod ge in another province should take the rank of a P . M . in that other province . —The proposal was seconded by the Rev . J . S . BROWNRIGG , and the Rev . R . J . SIMPSON , and opposed by the
Rev . AMROSE HALL , P . G . C—Bro . MCINTYRE thought that brethren had been speaking upon a subject dealt with in alater clause . That was clause 1 S 6 . He would most respectfully ask the Pro G . Master to rule that Grand Lodge could not deal with the status a Past Master was to have in his lodge ; that must be dealt with in another place . —Bro . MONTAGUE GUEST said as it appeared to be the opinion of grand Lodge that the amendment should not
be allowed he must give way , but he thought it would be far better that Grand Lodge should decide that there should be a bye-law having the effect suggested instead of making the matter permissive . —Bro . H . S . ALLPASS thought it would be much better if the proposal by the Board of General Purposes was absolute and not permissive . —Lord HOLMESDALE
supported the proposals of the Board . He thought the provinces ought to decide whether they would or would not admit joining Past Masters as members of Provincial Grand Lodge . —Alter some remarks by the Pro Grand Master the clause reading " Provincial and District Grand Masters shall enact by their bye-laws " was passed .
Clause Si was passed substituting on the 3 th line " whom he may think fit" for " may be thought ; " on the 9 th line " those" for ''that , " and adding at the end " except that of summoning the Provincial or District Grand Lodge to meet for the purposes of installation . " We hope to continue our report of the discussion on the remaining clauses next week .
The Grand Masters' Proposed Visit To York.
THE GRAND MASTERS' PROPOSED VISIT TO YORK .
On Wednesday next the Prince of Wales , as Grand Master of England , will lay the foundation-stone of the New Institute for Art , Science , and Literature in the ancient city of York . An especial Grand Lodge will be opened in the Guildhall at 1 * 0 . 15 a . m ., which W . Masters , Wardens , and Past Masters of the several lodges have been invited to attend , and the brethren of the York lodges in an especial degree , as well as of those in the province of N . and E . Yorkshire and its neighbour of W . Yorkshire
may be relied upon to do their utmost in order to give all possible splendour to the occasion , so as to make it worthy in all respects of the fair fame of the legendary birthplace of English Freemasonry . There will likewise , in all probability , be a large concourse of Craftsmen from other parts of England , anxious to do honour in the first instance to our Royal Grand Master , and in the next to the venerable capital of the north ; and , in these circumstances , a glance at the claims of York Masonry may not be unacceptable to our readers .
It is unnecessary we should do more than refer to the legend which connects King Athelstan , a near descendant ot Alfred , the greatest of our Anglo-Saxon monarchs , with the origin of Freemasonry in this country . Whether at the instance of Prince Edwin , his so-styled son , or not , it is probable that he granted a charter to the Masonic , as to other , Guilds , and it is just as possible that this Prince Edwin may have caused the first assembly
of Masons in England to be held in York . What more immediatel y concerns us is that , even in connection with Masonry in its Modern or Speculative aspect , there is no other city in the world which is richer in historical associations with the Mason Craft than that of York . At the time when the Grand Lodge of England was established in London there was in York a lodge dating probably from the seventeenth century . It is on record that
in 1705 its Master , or President , was Sir George Tempest . Towards the close of the year 1725 , its chief assumed the style and title of Grand Master , and the lodge itself came to be designated as the " Grand Lodge of All England , " to distinguish it , in accordance with the legend already referred to —that the Mj . son assemblies were originally held in York—from the Grand Lodge of England" in London . But , though claiming for itself this
superior distinction , it maintained relations of a friendly character with the Southern Grand Lodge . The latter , as will be seen on reference to the pages of Findel , was referred to by Bro . Drake in 1726 , and in 1767 Bro . Lambert , Grand Secretary , York , writing to Bro . Spencer , Grand Secretary , London , informs him that the Lodge No . 259 , in Stonegate , York , which had been constituted by the Grand Lodge , London , 12 th January ,
1761 , had discontinued meeting , and after imparting sundry other particulars respecting his Grand Lodge , adds ; " In all that appertains to the general good , and especially that of the fraternity at large , this Grand Lodge" ( of York ) "is ever read y to work in concert with the one in London , and demonstrate all proper respect for any information or advice she may impart . "
As to the influence of the Grand Lodge of All England , York , whatever it may have been in the city itself , the Grand Lodge of England in London appears to have granted warrants freel y for the establishment of lodges both there and in the country . Several of these are still flourishing and notably York Lodge , No . 236 , originally , Union Lodge , No . 1777 , as well as present No . 61 , Halifax , founded in 1738 ; No . 123 , Richmond , dating
from 1763 ; No . 139 , Sheffield , from 1765 ; No . 154 , Wakefield , from 1766 ; No . 242 , Doncaster , from 1780 ; No . 250 , Hull , from 1783 ; Nos . 264 and 265 , Batley and Keighley respectively , from 1788 ; No . 275 , Hudersneld , from 1789 , See . In addition there are some 10 lodges still on the roll of Grand Lodge , whose warrants of constitution were granted during the years 1792-97 , when the York Grand Lodge was no more ; and it may
lurther be mentioned that besides the Lodge 259 , Stonegate , York , referred to by Bro . Grand Secretary Lambert as being defunct in 1767 , an Apollo Lodge , York , was constituted by the " Moderns " as No . 450 in 1773 . became which No . 290 in 1792 and subsequently died out . There are also lodges still flourishing , such as No , 57 , Hull , No , 149 , Meltham , which were founded by the " Ancients . "
Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.
Special Grand Lodge.
" all , " of the words " Present and Past , " and after " officers , " " Deputy Provincial Grand Masters , Provincial Grand Secretaries . " Clauses 58 and 59 passed unaltered . In clause 60 " eight" was substituted for " six " throughout . Clauses 61 and 62 no alteration . Bro . Sir J . B . MONCKTON said that to clause 6 3 an amendment was
proposed by adding the words " a resolution of the Grand Lodge at one Quarterly Communication if confirmed at the next ensuing meeting of Grand Lodge , becomes law . " The Board did not recommend that . —Bro . J AMES STEVENS said he was the mover of the amendment , which had been one of the old Constitutions , but had been eliminated from them , for what reason he did not know , but he thought it important that when a matter had
been solemnly discussed and resolved upon , and that resolution had been confirmed , it should become a law which all officers were bound to see cbsevved . —Bro . Sir J B . MONCKTON said that when laws were passed and confirmed they were laws of course , which no one— -not even the Grand Master—had any right to impede ; but the Board thought it rather against the dignity of Grand Lodge to say that that should be law what was law
already . —Bro . the Rev . J . SIMPSON intervened to raise the question of what was the proper definition of confirmation of the minutes , but the Chairman ruled him out of order , but waived his objection on condition that he would confine himself to the present . —Bro . the Rev . R . J . SIMPSON said he would confine himself to the present and the past , and referred to two decisions given from the chair , one favouring the view that confirmation meant
verification of record , and the other that confirmation was a resolution without which a law decided upon could not take effect . He contended that all resolutions of Grand Lodge , except such as related to money grants , should be finally decided at the lodge at which they were discussed and carried . —Bro . W . W . B . BEACH , Prov . Grand Master Hants and the Isle of Wight , could not agree with Bro . Simpson . Grand Lodge was always able to revise its
decision , and had frequently rejected a portion of the minutes which recorded something done at a previous meeting . He would give one instance . Twentyfive years ago it was decided at one Grand Lodge that the Mark Degree should be recognised by Grand Lodge ; that was carried by a large majority ; but at the next Grand Lodge that portion of the minutes was not confirmed . —Bro . J HAVERS , P . G . W ., was surprised at Bro . Stevens ' s proposal ,
which if made should have been proposed earlier , because the Book of Constitutions provided that no law could be made use of until it had been carried at one Grand Lodge and confirmed at the next . It was important that Grand Lodgeshould not betaken by surprise . As he understood it , minutes were put for confirmation for three reasons—first , to let the brethren not present know what had taken place ; secondly , to see whether they were correctly
recorded ; and , thirdly , that they might be ratified . —Bro . A . E . GLADWELL called attention to the fact that a year or two since , when a question was raised as to whether a brother was in order in moving the non-confirmation of the minutes , the Pro Grand Master had said that he had no hesitation in ruling that in so doing the brother in question was out of order . His own
opinion was that confirmation was equivalent to asking the brethren , " Do you now approve of the decision you then arrived at ? If not , you have now £ . n opportunity of reversing it . " —After a short reply from Bro . STEVENS thequestion wasput thattheclause stand unaltered , and was agreed to . —Bro . STEVENS said he was quite sure that the motion was nqt understood ; he had , in fact , voted against himself .
Clause 64 , no alteration ; also 65 , notwithstanding a proposal to omit it from the Constitutions . Clauses 66 to 71 were passed without alteration . —Bro . MONTAGUE GUEST said he sent in a suggested amendment of rule 66 by addition of the words " other than those sanctioned by the general Committee . " He sent that in for the purpose of preventing anv one being ruled out of . order
by the chair , a serious consideration when brethren came some hundreds of miles to attend Grand Lodge . —Sir J . B . MONCKTON could not recommend the alteration , which he considered an infringement of the rights of the Grand Master . It might by some accident happen that a notice of motion would emanate from the General Committee containing words of religious , political , international importance , when it would be proper that it should be
overruled . —T he Rev . C . J . MARTYN , Deputy Prov . Grand Master Norfolk , seconded Bro . GUEST ' S proposal . —Bro . MCINTYRE said this was not a new law , although the Prov . Grand Master for Dorset was considering it as such and as changing the universal practice of the Craft . He seemed to him to be curtailing the power of the chair , which would be useful in the event of any improper words in a notice having by accident been passed unnoticed by the General Committee . —
In putting the question , the PRO GRAND MASTER said he thought it right to say a few words himself . The proposed alteration would alter what had been the practice for 50 or 60 years , and it seemed to him that unless there were something more than mere theory to be advanced it was not advisable to take away a power which was not likely to be abused . —On being put to Grand Lodge the clause was passed without alteration . Clauses 67 to 71 were also passed unaltered .
Clause 72 was also passed unaltered , notwithstanding the proposition to insert the word " may" instead of " shall . " Clause 73 , no alteration . Clause 74 passed with substitution of "Wardens" for " officers . " Clause 75 , no alteration . Sir J MONCKTON said that , in clause 76 several alterations were
proposed ; those recommended by the Board were ; In the sixth line to add after the words , " Grand Master" " except in elections by ballot . " In the eighth line to substitute " one hand " for " one of his hands . " In the tenth line to add after the-word " counted" " the counting shall be conducted in the following manner ; " and then add the resolution passed in Grand Lodge in June , 1882 . What the Board did not recommend was the provision for proxy voting . —The clause , with these amendments , was passed , and proxy
voting rejected . Clause 77 , no alteration . Sir J MONCKTON said in clause 78 it was proposed to introduce 104 as 79 altered , so as to read " in colonies and foreign parts the terms District Grand Master and District Grand Lodge are used to distinguish such officers and bodies from Provincial Grand Masters and Provincial Grand Lodges as in England . "—This recommendation was agreed to .
Clause 79 passed , the insertion of the words " or in such remote part of the district as to render it impossible to communicate with him " being rejected . Bro . Sir J B . MONCKTON said in clause 80 there were several alterations deserving of attention . It was proposed that Provincial and District Grand Lodges may enact by their bye-laws that in addition to the above , the Past Masters out of the province or district who have joined lod ges in the province or district shall be members of Provincial or District Grand Lodge . —Bro , C . D , Hut DRURY spoke against the proposal . He
Special Grand Lodge.
thought it should not be permissive , but should either be withdrawn altogether or else made absolute . Bro . Drury went on to instance the hardship of a brother who was a Past Master , and had been obliged to move into another province , finding when he joined a lodge of that province that though a P . M . he ranked in the lodge with its youngest members . Moreover , he had no vote in Provincial Grand Lodge . Hundreds of P . Ms , were
affected by it , and it was a matter that gave more trouble in the provinces than any other . He would move that " A Past Master joining a lodge should be considered a P . M . of the lodge . " No notice of this amendment having been given it was ruled out of order . —Bro . the Rev . C . J . ARNOLD said that the proposal before the Grand Lod ge was proposed by the Province of Surrey , and the amendment was to this effect , that a note be placed
at the end of this particular section that that would be the position of a joining P . M ., because otherwise he would have been excluded from the membership and privilege of Grand Lodge . They therefore proposed that a P . M . of one province who joined a lod ge in another province should take the rank of a P . M . in that other province . —The proposal was seconded by the Rev . J . S . BROWNRIGG , and the Rev . R . J . SIMPSON , and opposed by the
Rev . AMROSE HALL , P . G . C—Bro . MCINTYRE thought that brethren had been speaking upon a subject dealt with in alater clause . That was clause 1 S 6 . He would most respectfully ask the Pro G . Master to rule that Grand Lodge could not deal with the status a Past Master was to have in his lodge ; that must be dealt with in another place . —Bro . MONTAGUE GUEST said as it appeared to be the opinion of grand Lodge that the amendment should not
be allowed he must give way , but he thought it would be far better that Grand Lodge should decide that there should be a bye-law having the effect suggested instead of making the matter permissive . —Bro . H . S . ALLPASS thought it would be much better if the proposal by the Board of General Purposes was absolute and not permissive . —Lord HOLMESDALE
supported the proposals of the Board . He thought the provinces ought to decide whether they would or would not admit joining Past Masters as members of Provincial Grand Lodge . —Alter some remarks by the Pro Grand Master the clause reading " Provincial and District Grand Masters shall enact by their bye-laws " was passed .
Clause Si was passed substituting on the 3 th line " whom he may think fit" for " may be thought ; " on the 9 th line " those" for ''that , " and adding at the end " except that of summoning the Provincial or District Grand Lodge to meet for the purposes of installation . " We hope to continue our report of the discussion on the remaining clauses next week .
The Grand Masters' Proposed Visit To York.
THE GRAND MASTERS' PROPOSED VISIT TO YORK .
On Wednesday next the Prince of Wales , as Grand Master of England , will lay the foundation-stone of the New Institute for Art , Science , and Literature in the ancient city of York . An especial Grand Lodge will be opened in the Guildhall at 1 * 0 . 15 a . m ., which W . Masters , Wardens , and Past Masters of the several lodges have been invited to attend , and the brethren of the York lodges in an especial degree , as well as of those in the province of N . and E . Yorkshire and its neighbour of W . Yorkshire
may be relied upon to do their utmost in order to give all possible splendour to the occasion , so as to make it worthy in all respects of the fair fame of the legendary birthplace of English Freemasonry . There will likewise , in all probability , be a large concourse of Craftsmen from other parts of England , anxious to do honour in the first instance to our Royal Grand Master , and in the next to the venerable capital of the north ; and , in these circumstances , a glance at the claims of York Masonry may not be unacceptable to our readers .
It is unnecessary we should do more than refer to the legend which connects King Athelstan , a near descendant ot Alfred , the greatest of our Anglo-Saxon monarchs , with the origin of Freemasonry in this country . Whether at the instance of Prince Edwin , his so-styled son , or not , it is probable that he granted a charter to the Masonic , as to other , Guilds , and it is just as possible that this Prince Edwin may have caused the first assembly
of Masons in England to be held in York . What more immediatel y concerns us is that , even in connection with Masonry in its Modern or Speculative aspect , there is no other city in the world which is richer in historical associations with the Mason Craft than that of York . At the time when the Grand Lodge of England was established in London there was in York a lodge dating probably from the seventeenth century . It is on record that
in 1705 its Master , or President , was Sir George Tempest . Towards the close of the year 1725 , its chief assumed the style and title of Grand Master , and the lodge itself came to be designated as the " Grand Lodge of All England , " to distinguish it , in accordance with the legend already referred to —that the Mj . son assemblies were originally held in York—from the Grand Lodge of England" in London . But , though claiming for itself this
superior distinction , it maintained relations of a friendly character with the Southern Grand Lodge . The latter , as will be seen on reference to the pages of Findel , was referred to by Bro . Drake in 1726 , and in 1767 Bro . Lambert , Grand Secretary , York , writing to Bro . Spencer , Grand Secretary , London , informs him that the Lodge No . 259 , in Stonegate , York , which had been constituted by the Grand Lodge , London , 12 th January ,
1761 , had discontinued meeting , and after imparting sundry other particulars respecting his Grand Lodge , adds ; " In all that appertains to the general good , and especially that of the fraternity at large , this Grand Lodge" ( of York ) "is ever read y to work in concert with the one in London , and demonstrate all proper respect for any information or advice she may impart . "
As to the influence of the Grand Lodge of All England , York , whatever it may have been in the city itself , the Grand Lodge of England in London appears to have granted warrants freel y for the establishment of lodges both there and in the country . Several of these are still flourishing and notably York Lodge , No . 236 , originally , Union Lodge , No . 1777 , as well as present No . 61 , Halifax , founded in 1738 ; No . 123 , Richmond , dating
from 1763 ; No . 139 , Sheffield , from 1765 ; No . 154 , Wakefield , from 1766 ; No . 242 , Doncaster , from 1780 ; No . 250 , Hull , from 1783 ; Nos . 264 and 265 , Batley and Keighley respectively , from 1788 ; No . 275 , Hudersneld , from 1789 , See . In addition there are some 10 lodges still on the roll of Grand Lodge , whose warrants of constitution were granted during the years 1792-97 , when the York Grand Lodge was no more ; and it may
lurther be mentioned that besides the Lodge 259 , Stonegate , York , referred to by Bro . Grand Secretary Lambert as being defunct in 1767 , an Apollo Lodge , York , was constituted by the " Moderns " as No . 450 in 1773 . became which No . 290 in 1792 and subsequently died out . There are also lodges still flourishing , such as No , 57 , Hull , No , 149 , Meltham , which were founded by the " Ancients . "