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  • July 10, 1869
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The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine, July 10, 1869: Page 11

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    Article MASONIC NOTES AND QJJERIES. ← Page 3 of 3
    Article MASONIC NOTES AND QJJERIES. Page 3 of 3
Page 11

Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.

Masonic Notes And Qjjeries.

WHEN WAS BEO . THE PBINCE OE WALES & . M . ? A learned brother , J . A . H ., at page 7 of this volume , says , "Long live our Royal Past Grand Master . " "When was H . R . H . the Prince of Wales M . W . G . M . —in 1867 , 1868 , I 860 , or 1870 ? ancl where can he become a P . G . M . until he has been installed as G . M . ? Was he M . W . G . M . before he was initiated , or after ? —A NEW MEMBEE .

LODGE LIST , 1765 . Iu 1765 there were still 113 English lodges surviving older than 1740 , including many provincial lodges now extinct , but it is quite possible there were provincial lodges of old constitution not registered with the Grand Lodge of England . If it were

not so , the spread of Masonry in the provinces in the first 20 years after the foundation of Grand Lod ge would have borne a small proportion to metropolitan extension . —B . B .

This list of yours is apparently not very ancient , hut it is a list on which the old lodges were only 40 years old , and the main portion of the old lodges not more than a quarter of a century . At that time , in 1765 , very few lodges had distinctive names , but they were named after the

publichouses where they met , if they could be said to have names at all , for it will be seen that several lodges have numbers only . On No . 1 there is the curious entry : — "Every fourth Wednesday there is a Master ' s Lodge . " This looks as if No . I had a specialtfor the Master ' s

y degree . Here is a chance for our learned brother Hughan . Further , — " It is also the West India and American Lodge . " No doubt it had much to do in spreading Masonry in America and the West Indies . —ANNOTATOE .

THE CONGEESS ON CELESTIAL MYSTEBIES . Devonport is a School of Masonry , including some learned and zealous Masons , but unless they have provided a few men of science to satisfy the outside world , their decision will be considered of little value . They want—among others—astronomersastrologers

, , Hebraists , Egyptologists , men familiar with the three kinds of cuneiform inscriptions ( the language of one , which is termed Akkad , is not known as yet , unless to Bro . Melville ) , proficients in sytnbology , chronologists , & c—OBSEEVEE .

As the astrolabe (?) was exposed at Nineveh , and is exposed at the British Museum , what ground can there be for supposing that the scientific explanation of it ought to be kept from the public , merely because the alleged interpreter is a Freemason ? This I ask , heeause as yet all discoveries iu the branches of

Syro-Egyptiau science have been freely made known by the Government , the Societies , and by men of science . — W . M . THE MAKE DEGREE . —MASONIC JUEISBEUDENCE . The Mark degree exists and has existed in several countries .

It is not under the ban of constituted authority as un-Masonic . It is permissible to practise it in England , although Grand Lod ge and Grand Chapter do not at this moment , but may again , recognise it as a part of the English Craft system .

Masonic Notes And Qjjeries.

It consequently becomes a question whether Mark lodges must remain isolated as single lodges , without co-operation and without any provision for uniformity of system , or whether they can join together , as 'l ' emplars and others have done , to obtain a common administration , as a Grand Chapter , Grand Lodge ,

Directory , or Grand Conclave . If this can be in any degree permitted , the organization would be called Grand Lodge , because the units are Lodges , and not Grand Conclave or Grand Chapter . There is no harm in calling such a body Grand

Lodge . It does not invade any jurisdiction or privilege of the Grand Lodge of England by such name , any more than the Grand Lodge of England , by calling itself a Grand Lodge , invades any jurisdiction or privilege of the Grand Lodge of Scotland . If a Grand Lodge of Mark Masters elects a G . M .,

he no more affects the M . W . G . M . of England than does the G . M . of the Templars or the G . M . of anything or anyone else . . The spirit of . modern Masonic jurisprudence is to comply with the requirements of the time according to the dictates of common sense . —MAEK .

EOSE CEOIS ( p . 3 ) . Some brother will oblige by giving the Latin of the Latin , or the Latin of the English translations of the interesting article on the Rose Croix , by Dnalxo . Natura renovantur Integra and Igne Nitrum Soris Novenitur are rather puzzling to one not accustomed to Masonic Latin . —A CONST , \ NT READEE .

TEAS OE BIGHT . A correspondent in your last number wishes to know why the Tear of Light of Masons should differ with the clerical Anno Mundi : and also he desires to be informed when stars were first adopted in Masonry . Without reference to the conflicting opinions of various nations as to the date of Creation ,

let it suffice that our own clericals do not agree aa to whether it took place 4 , 000 or 4 , 004 before the birth of the Saviour . The days set forth in Creation are by some interpreted to mean years . The first verse of Genesis records the beginning by the creation of heaven and earth . Light , or the sun , was

not brought forth until the fourth day or year , hence the 4 , 000 and the 4 , 004 . Masons date from the sun ; therefore they add 4 , 000 to Anno Domini , and this year is with them the year of light 5869 . The same correspondent wishes Bro . Buchan to tell him when stars were first used in Masonry ? By doing so through your Magazine , Bro . Buchan will not only oblige Bro . Nekum but likewise—HENEX MEIVTLIE .

BEO . MELVILLE AND HIS ASTBOLABE . Bro . Melville is quite welcome to believe his Assyrian monument an astrolabe , a warming-pan , or a chamber-jug , but he must allow others to believe their own eyes . No mysberious intimations will enable anyone to restore sciences which never existed and never were lost . —J . W . M .

TEE Historical Commissioners have got so fur into their work as to have appointed four travelling deputies—one each for England , Ireland , Scotland , and Wales—who will have to visit country houses , and report on the literary treasures which may be found in them .

“The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine: 1869-07-10, Page 11” Masonic Periodicals Online, Library and Museum of Freemasonry, 15 July 2025, django:8000/periodicals/mmr/issues/mmr_10071869/page/11/.
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Title Category Page
Untitled Article 1
FREEMASONS' HALL. Article 1
CHIPS OF FOREIGN ASHLAR. Article 1
ON TREE AND SERPENT WORSHIP, AS EXEMPLIFIED BY SOME RECENTLY DISCOVERED INDIAN MONUMENTS. Article 3
OPINION OF FREEMASONRY EXPRESSED BY THE EARL OF DERBY. Article 6
THE PALESTINE EXPLORATION FUND. Article 7
ANCIENT LODGES. Article 8
MASONIC NOTES AND QJJERIES. Article 9
CORRESPONDENCE. Article 12
BRO. MELVILLE'S DISCOVERIES. Article 12
THE EARLS WOOD IDIOT ASYLUM. Article 13
GRAND LODGE CALENDAR. Article 13
A COMPARISON. Article 13
REDUCTION IN PRICE OF THE "MAGAZINE." Article 15
ROYAL MASONIC INSTITUTION FOR BOYS. Article 15
METROPOLITAN. Article 16
PROVINCIAL. Article 16
IRELAND. Article 17
ROYAL ARCH. Article 18
Obituary. Article 18
Poetry. Article 19
THE "MORNING ADVERTISER" AND FREEMASONRY. Article 19
LIST OF LODGE, &c., MEETINGS FOR WEEK ENDING 17TH JULY, 1869. Article 20
TO CORRESPONDENTS. Article 20
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Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.

Masonic Notes And Qjjeries.

WHEN WAS BEO . THE PBINCE OE WALES & . M . ? A learned brother , J . A . H ., at page 7 of this volume , says , "Long live our Royal Past Grand Master . " "When was H . R . H . the Prince of Wales M . W . G . M . —in 1867 , 1868 , I 860 , or 1870 ? ancl where can he become a P . G . M . until he has been installed as G . M . ? Was he M . W . G . M . before he was initiated , or after ? —A NEW MEMBEE .

LODGE LIST , 1765 . Iu 1765 there were still 113 English lodges surviving older than 1740 , including many provincial lodges now extinct , but it is quite possible there were provincial lodges of old constitution not registered with the Grand Lodge of England . If it were

not so , the spread of Masonry in the provinces in the first 20 years after the foundation of Grand Lod ge would have borne a small proportion to metropolitan extension . —B . B .

This list of yours is apparently not very ancient , hut it is a list on which the old lodges were only 40 years old , and the main portion of the old lodges not more than a quarter of a century . At that time , in 1765 , very few lodges had distinctive names , but they were named after the

publichouses where they met , if they could be said to have names at all , for it will be seen that several lodges have numbers only . On No . 1 there is the curious entry : — "Every fourth Wednesday there is a Master ' s Lodge . " This looks as if No . I had a specialtfor the Master ' s

y degree . Here is a chance for our learned brother Hughan . Further , — " It is also the West India and American Lodge . " No doubt it had much to do in spreading Masonry in America and the West Indies . —ANNOTATOE .

THE CONGEESS ON CELESTIAL MYSTEBIES . Devonport is a School of Masonry , including some learned and zealous Masons , but unless they have provided a few men of science to satisfy the outside world , their decision will be considered of little value . They want—among others—astronomersastrologers

, , Hebraists , Egyptologists , men familiar with the three kinds of cuneiform inscriptions ( the language of one , which is termed Akkad , is not known as yet , unless to Bro . Melville ) , proficients in sytnbology , chronologists , & c—OBSEEVEE .

As the astrolabe (?) was exposed at Nineveh , and is exposed at the British Museum , what ground can there be for supposing that the scientific explanation of it ought to be kept from the public , merely because the alleged interpreter is a Freemason ? This I ask , heeause as yet all discoveries iu the branches of

Syro-Egyptiau science have been freely made known by the Government , the Societies , and by men of science . — W . M . THE MAKE DEGREE . —MASONIC JUEISBEUDENCE . The Mark degree exists and has existed in several countries .

It is not under the ban of constituted authority as un-Masonic . It is permissible to practise it in England , although Grand Lod ge and Grand Chapter do not at this moment , but may again , recognise it as a part of the English Craft system .

Masonic Notes And Qjjeries.

It consequently becomes a question whether Mark lodges must remain isolated as single lodges , without co-operation and without any provision for uniformity of system , or whether they can join together , as 'l ' emplars and others have done , to obtain a common administration , as a Grand Chapter , Grand Lodge ,

Directory , or Grand Conclave . If this can be in any degree permitted , the organization would be called Grand Lodge , because the units are Lodges , and not Grand Conclave or Grand Chapter . There is no harm in calling such a body Grand

Lodge . It does not invade any jurisdiction or privilege of the Grand Lodge of England by such name , any more than the Grand Lodge of England , by calling itself a Grand Lodge , invades any jurisdiction or privilege of the Grand Lodge of Scotland . If a Grand Lodge of Mark Masters elects a G . M .,

he no more affects the M . W . G . M . of England than does the G . M . of the Templars or the G . M . of anything or anyone else . . The spirit of . modern Masonic jurisprudence is to comply with the requirements of the time according to the dictates of common sense . —MAEK .

EOSE CEOIS ( p . 3 ) . Some brother will oblige by giving the Latin of the Latin , or the Latin of the English translations of the interesting article on the Rose Croix , by Dnalxo . Natura renovantur Integra and Igne Nitrum Soris Novenitur are rather puzzling to one not accustomed to Masonic Latin . —A CONST , \ NT READEE .

TEAS OE BIGHT . A correspondent in your last number wishes to know why the Tear of Light of Masons should differ with the clerical Anno Mundi : and also he desires to be informed when stars were first adopted in Masonry . Without reference to the conflicting opinions of various nations as to the date of Creation ,

let it suffice that our own clericals do not agree aa to whether it took place 4 , 000 or 4 , 004 before the birth of the Saviour . The days set forth in Creation are by some interpreted to mean years . The first verse of Genesis records the beginning by the creation of heaven and earth . Light , or the sun , was

not brought forth until the fourth day or year , hence the 4 , 000 and the 4 , 004 . Masons date from the sun ; therefore they add 4 , 000 to Anno Domini , and this year is with them the year of light 5869 . The same correspondent wishes Bro . Buchan to tell him when stars were first used in Masonry ? By doing so through your Magazine , Bro . Buchan will not only oblige Bro . Nekum but likewise—HENEX MEIVTLIE .

BEO . MELVILLE AND HIS ASTBOLABE . Bro . Melville is quite welcome to believe his Assyrian monument an astrolabe , a warming-pan , or a chamber-jug , but he must allow others to believe their own eyes . No mysberious intimations will enable anyone to restore sciences which never existed and never were lost . —J . W . M .

TEE Historical Commissioners have got so fur into their work as to have appointed four travelling deputies—one each for England , Ireland , Scotland , and Wales—who will have to visit country houses , and report on the literary treasures which may be found in them .

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