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  • June 7, 1862
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The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine, June 7, 1862: Page 13

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    Article GRAND LODGE. ← Page 4 of 5
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Page 13

Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.

Grand Lodge.

for all fche offices of Grand Lodge . They did not want a suite of rooms for the Grand Tyler , robing rooms for the Grand Officers , and robing rooms for other officers , and believed that fche plan as contained in the report involved a large and needless expenditure . Bro . S AVAGE , P . G . D ., rose to order . He wanted to understand AA-hether they AA-ere entering upon the discussion that night , how far they AA-ere to go , and Avhere they were to leave

off for the special Grand Lodge ? The GEAND MASTEE thought it would be better to alloAv Bro . Lloyd to proceed . Bro . LLOATD resumed , and said the Grand Lodge had no power fco grant building leases . That subject had been considered years ' ago , and a committee had come to the resolution that they had no poiver to grant such leases . No person would be foolish enough to accept their leases Avhen the power of granting them was so very doubtful , and they could get no one to purchase the property in ivhich they had invested their money .

Bro . GIEAUD seconded the amendment , believing the question to bo one of the greatest importance . HOAV Avas it possible that they could dispose of their property , AA'hen they had got a Board of General Purposes , ivhich ivas a constantly-changing body . He ivas in fa-A-our of the appointment of a committee of seven members to consider the subject , and to report to the next Grand Lodge as to the best course to be adopted . Ho knciv the practical difficulty Avhich great numbers had in doing AA-hat a feAv Avould do very well , and if they got seven respectable men ( laughter)—he did not mean to insinuate

that any of the bretnren were not respectable ( laughter)—but if they got sei-cn good Masons , ivho kneiv Avhat the Craft required , ivith talent to deal with the question , and report to the next Grand Lodge , that would he the best tribunal ro which they could refer this question .

Bro . HOPWOOD said there ivould be a great difficulty in carrying out the A-iews of the . Board of General Purposes , for he could not understand how they could grant leases or deal Avith the Grand Lodge property . They were not vested ivith the poiver to do so ; they were not a chartered body , and they ivere only represented by trustees , to whom coiiA-eyanees ivere made for certain purposes , and when they died off , others were nominated . The report required a large amount of earnest consideration , and this matter ought to be vested in persons and individuals able judge of it , and given an opinion which should be a guide to the general body .

Bro . METJIOTT asked the Grand Lodge seriously to consider , AA-hether they Avould be justified in adopting the report , or whether they ought to adopt the amendment of Bro . Herbert Lloyd , that the subject be referred to a committee , especially as tho report was not the unanimous report of the Board of General Purposes . He should support the amendment of Bro . Lloyd , because he proposed the only proper tribunal tha tcould deal AA'ith the subject . As the Board of General Purposes , ivas a continually charging body , if the report ivas sent back to them the matter might drag its SIOAV length along for another

12 months , and nothing ivould bo done , and on thafc ground he said that the committee ivas a better tribunal to deal ivith it than the Board of General Purposes . There AA-ere other serious questions , such as , law and finances , ivhich they must bear in mind ; and there should he in thc committee , brethren who ivould seriously attend to the important duties which would devolve upon that committee , ivhich ivould bo a far more competent body than the Board of General Purposes to deal witli the matter which had been elected that night .

Bro . SAKGOOD opposed the amendment but said that as thei- had got a report _ from the Board of General Purposes , and the AA'hole question was in their own hands they should discuss it . He did not wish to see it sont back to ' any other tribunal . They had it in their grasp and the sooner they set to ivork and dealt AA'ith it the bettor it would be for the Craft .

The GEAND MASTEE said he was desirous of gii'ing his own opinion at that moment , and especially so as he thought it might shorten the discussion . He ivas sorry to say that on reference to tlie Boole of Constitutions at page 107 , he found he could not put tlie amendment of Herbert Lloyd . ( The Grand Master here read the laiv which ive haA'e given in another part of thc Magazine . ) That law prevented him from putting the notion of Bro . Herbert Lloyd as it took the matter out of the hands of the Board of General Purposes and in into the hands of

put a committee . He ivas of opinion with Bro . Herbert Lloyd that it woidd be desirable that the alterations of their buildings should he put into the hands of the committee instead of the Board of" General Purposes , but to do so they must first alter the laws . Therefore he proposed to call a special Grand Lodge for the 16 th of July , and at the same time he ivould take care that proper notice were given to enable the Board of General to appoint Committee to into effect the

Purposes a cam- decision of Grand Loelge . If they agreed to that " alteration of the laiA-, the quarterly connnmimicatlon in September might confirm that alteration , and they could set to Avork immediately after . If Grand Lodge agreed with him , he would take care to act in accordance with the law , and not in contradiction of it . He had mentioned the

Grand Lodge.

16 th of July , as being a day about half-ivay between this and the next Grand Lodge , but he could not then positii'ely fix it . He Avould , however , in the meantime take ' care to give notice , so as best to consult the convenience of brethren ; It would bo in the week oithcibefore or after the 16 th of July . BEO . SAEGOOD suggested that they should meet at an earlier hour than 8 o ' clock . The GEAND MASTEE said he would consider that . He miht

sayg it was desirable that great care should be exercised in the selection of the Committee , and if they were seven they should take care to have practical men upon it , whose minds were not biaassed by personal feeling , but would enter fairly and impartially into the consideration of the report of the Board of General Purposes . BEO . GEEEN . —Will the special Grand Lodge take into consideration the alteration of the Booli of Constitutions .

The GEAND MASTEE said he ivould give notice to take into consideration the alteration of the Boole of Constitutions , in addition to the report of the Board of General Purposes . Tlie GEAND REGISTEAE having made a communication to his lordship , The GEAND MASTEE said he wished to make one correction in what he had stated . His attention had been called by the Grand Registrar to the Boole of Constitutions , and he found by reference to

page 22 , that at a edge of emergency they could not make any alteration in the laivs of the Order . Therefore that rule precluded liim . or any other brother from proposing an alteration in the law at anymeeting of emergency of the Grand Lodge . Bro . HAVEKS said he had listened most attentively to his lordship ' s ruling , and having taken some pains to study the Book of Constitutions , he ivas totally at variance ivitli the Grand Registrar in the advice which he had iven to his lordshias he did not find it to be

g p , the true interpretation of the Boole of Constitutions . He knew it was the laiv they must give notice to the Board of Masters of any business to be discussed at their regular meetings . At the late special Grand Lodge , however , no such notice was given to vote an address of condolence to her Majesty , anil if the Grand Registrar ' s ruling was correct , that vote was illegal , as notice of it had not been given to the Board of Masters . That , however , was a subject which did not press at the present

moment , and might be determined at his lordship's leisure . Before he sat doAvn he Avished to say that he had observed Avith great pain the strong- feeling expressed hy brethren in discussing questions upon AA'hich there ought to bo none . They ought to take up subjects and deal ivith them as intelligent Masons , and not alloiv their judgment to be warped ; and at thc next meeting of Grand Lodge he hoped they would hear every individual who had a plan to submit , so that they might adopt that one which wasthe most practicable , the most feasible , and the least expensive .

Having been President of tho Board of General Purposes he said that if that body should not be considered the best qualified to carry this object into effect , and that it could be better entrusted to a committee , then he expressed a hope that they ivould not place on that committee those who were ivedded to a particular scheme ; that they ivould not put on that committee those who by thoughtless extravagance lA-ould spend a large sum of money AA'hich ought to remain in their own hands for the purposes of charit . He must also take occasion to that he thought some

y say of the brethren had rather unwisely set forth that it was not in their power to sell or lease their own property . Now he AA-as not a lawyer , but a man of plain common , sense , and when he knew that they had leased and sold land , not to an individual but to a public body , Avho had erected a building on it , it ivas absurd to say that no ono AA-ould buy of them . They had sold land to the Weslcyan body upon ivhich they had erected their schools , and he had no reason to doubt but that they were perfectly

satisfied with their title . As regarded the reference of this subject to a committee it was impossible that they could have seven men who would all take the same views , and each one must be prepared to give and take upon it . He thought it would be unfair to the Board of General Purposes , who had worked so hard if Grand Lodge refused to receive the plans they had prepared , and he trusted that they would receive them at their next meeting . He ivould say not the plans of the Board of General Purposes only , hut of any other brother

, so that by sifting them at their next meeting they ivould determine ivhat ivas good and what Avas bad and enable them to come to a satisfactory conclusion . He Avished before he sat doAvn , although he knew that he was treading on dangerous ground , to refer to ivhat had taken place that evening . In the heat of the moment they might bo led to use hasty words , but AA'ithout Availing for ivhich should be first , let every one withdraiv them before they parted and then they ivould meet at their next meeting as better friends .

Bro . ROXEUEGH wished to draw the attention of Grand Lodge to the Boole of Constitutions ; which required that there should be no alteration of a law without a notice of motion had been given to a Board of Masters , and he submitted that the Grand Master had no more poiver to propose an alteration of the laiv than any other member of Grand Lodge .

“The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine: 1862-06-07, Page 13” Masonic Periodicals Online, Library and Museum of Freemasonry, 4 July 2025, django:8000/periodicals/mmr/issues/mmr_07061862/page/13/.
  • List
  • Grid
Title Category Page
THE GRAND LODGE AND " THE FREEMASONS' MAGAZINE." Article 1
THE GRAND LODGE PROPERTY. Article 2
ANOTHER REGULARITY. Article 3
MASONIC FACTS . Article 4
THE LANDMARKS OF FREEMASONRY. Article 5
ARCHITECTURE OF PALESTINE FROM THE EARLIEST TIMES TO THE CRUSADES. Article 7
MASONIC NOTES AND QUERIES. Article 9
Untitled Article 10
MASONIC MEM. Article 10
GRAND LODGE. Article 10
METROPOLITAN. Article 14
PROVINCIAL. Article 15
ROYAL ARCH. Article 17
MARK HAS0NRY. Article 18
THE WEEK. Article 19
TO CORRESPONDENTS. Article 20
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Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.

Grand Lodge.

for all fche offices of Grand Lodge . They did not want a suite of rooms for the Grand Tyler , robing rooms for the Grand Officers , and robing rooms for other officers , and believed that fche plan as contained in the report involved a large and needless expenditure . Bro . S AVAGE , P . G . D ., rose to order . He wanted to understand AA-hether they AA-ere entering upon the discussion that night , how far they AA-ere to go , and Avhere they were to leave

off for the special Grand Lodge ? The GEAND MASTEE thought it would be better to alloAv Bro . Lloyd to proceed . Bro . LLOATD resumed , and said the Grand Lodge had no power fco grant building leases . That subject had been considered years ' ago , and a committee had come to the resolution that they had no poiver to grant such leases . No person would be foolish enough to accept their leases Avhen the power of granting them was so very doubtful , and they could get no one to purchase the property in ivhich they had invested their money .

Bro . GIEAUD seconded the amendment , believing the question to bo one of the greatest importance . HOAV Avas it possible that they could dispose of their property , AA'hen they had got a Board of General Purposes , ivhich ivas a constantly-changing body . He ivas in fa-A-our of the appointment of a committee of seven members to consider the subject , and to report to the next Grand Lodge as to the best course to be adopted . Ho knciv the practical difficulty Avhich great numbers had in doing AA-hat a feAv Avould do very well , and if they got seven respectable men ( laughter)—he did not mean to insinuate

that any of the bretnren were not respectable ( laughter)—but if they got sei-cn good Masons , ivho kneiv Avhat the Craft required , ivith talent to deal with the question , and report to the next Grand Lodge , that would he the best tribunal ro which they could refer this question .

Bro . HOPWOOD said there ivould be a great difficulty in carrying out the A-iews of the . Board of General Purposes , for he could not understand how they could grant leases or deal Avith the Grand Lodge property . They were not vested ivith the poiver to do so ; they were not a chartered body , and they ivere only represented by trustees , to whom coiiA-eyanees ivere made for certain purposes , and when they died off , others were nominated . The report required a large amount of earnest consideration , and this matter ought to be vested in persons and individuals able judge of it , and given an opinion which should be a guide to the general body .

Bro . METJIOTT asked the Grand Lodge seriously to consider , AA-hether they Avould be justified in adopting the report , or whether they ought to adopt the amendment of Bro . Herbert Lloyd , that the subject be referred to a committee , especially as tho report was not the unanimous report of the Board of General Purposes . He should support the amendment of Bro . Lloyd , because he proposed the only proper tribunal tha tcould deal AA'ith the subject . As the Board of General Purposes , ivas a continually charging body , if the report ivas sent back to them the matter might drag its SIOAV length along for another

12 months , and nothing ivould bo done , and on thafc ground he said that the committee ivas a better tribunal to deal ivith it than the Board of General Purposes . There AA-ere other serious questions , such as , law and finances , ivhich they must bear in mind ; and there should he in thc committee , brethren who ivould seriously attend to the important duties which would devolve upon that committee , ivhich ivould bo a far more competent body than the Board of General Purposes to deal witli the matter which had been elected that night .

Bro . SAKGOOD opposed the amendment but said that as thei- had got a report _ from the Board of General Purposes , and the AA'hole question was in their own hands they should discuss it . He did not wish to see it sont back to ' any other tribunal . They had it in their grasp and the sooner they set to ivork and dealt AA'ith it the bettor it would be for the Craft .

The GEAND MASTEE said he was desirous of gii'ing his own opinion at that moment , and especially so as he thought it might shorten the discussion . He ivas sorry to say that on reference to tlie Boole of Constitutions at page 107 , he found he could not put tlie amendment of Herbert Lloyd . ( The Grand Master here read the laiv which ive haA'e given in another part of thc Magazine . ) That law prevented him from putting the notion of Bro . Herbert Lloyd as it took the matter out of the hands of the Board of General Purposes and in into the hands of

put a committee . He ivas of opinion with Bro . Herbert Lloyd that it woidd be desirable that the alterations of their buildings should he put into the hands of the committee instead of the Board of" General Purposes , but to do so they must first alter the laws . Therefore he proposed to call a special Grand Lodge for the 16 th of July , and at the same time he ivould take care that proper notice were given to enable the Board of General to appoint Committee to into effect the

Purposes a cam- decision of Grand Loelge . If they agreed to that " alteration of the laiA-, the quarterly connnmimicatlon in September might confirm that alteration , and they could set to Avork immediately after . If Grand Lodge agreed with him , he would take care to act in accordance with the law , and not in contradiction of it . He had mentioned the

Grand Lodge.

16 th of July , as being a day about half-ivay between this and the next Grand Lodge , but he could not then positii'ely fix it . He Avould , however , in the meantime take ' care to give notice , so as best to consult the convenience of brethren ; It would bo in the week oithcibefore or after the 16 th of July . BEO . SAEGOOD suggested that they should meet at an earlier hour than 8 o ' clock . The GEAND MASTEE said he would consider that . He miht

sayg it was desirable that great care should be exercised in the selection of the Committee , and if they were seven they should take care to have practical men upon it , whose minds were not biaassed by personal feeling , but would enter fairly and impartially into the consideration of the report of the Board of General Purposes . BEO . GEEEN . —Will the special Grand Lodge take into consideration the alteration of the Booli of Constitutions .

The GEAND MASTEE said he ivould give notice to take into consideration the alteration of the Boole of Constitutions , in addition to the report of the Board of General Purposes . Tlie GEAND REGISTEAE having made a communication to his lordship , The GEAND MASTEE said he wished to make one correction in what he had stated . His attention had been called by the Grand Registrar to the Boole of Constitutions , and he found by reference to

page 22 , that at a edge of emergency they could not make any alteration in the laivs of the Order . Therefore that rule precluded liim . or any other brother from proposing an alteration in the law at anymeeting of emergency of the Grand Lodge . Bro . HAVEKS said he had listened most attentively to his lordship ' s ruling , and having taken some pains to study the Book of Constitutions , he ivas totally at variance ivitli the Grand Registrar in the advice which he had iven to his lordshias he did not find it to be

g p , the true interpretation of the Boole of Constitutions . He knew it was the laiv they must give notice to the Board of Masters of any business to be discussed at their regular meetings . At the late special Grand Lodge , however , no such notice was given to vote an address of condolence to her Majesty , anil if the Grand Registrar ' s ruling was correct , that vote was illegal , as notice of it had not been given to the Board of Masters . That , however , was a subject which did not press at the present

moment , and might be determined at his lordship's leisure . Before he sat doAvn he Avished to say that he had observed Avith great pain the strong- feeling expressed hy brethren in discussing questions upon AA'hich there ought to bo none . They ought to take up subjects and deal ivith them as intelligent Masons , and not alloiv their judgment to be warped ; and at thc next meeting of Grand Lodge he hoped they would hear every individual who had a plan to submit , so that they might adopt that one which wasthe most practicable , the most feasible , and the least expensive .

Having been President of tho Board of General Purposes he said that if that body should not be considered the best qualified to carry this object into effect , and that it could be better entrusted to a committee , then he expressed a hope that they ivould not place on that committee those who were ivedded to a particular scheme ; that they ivould not put on that committee those who by thoughtless extravagance lA-ould spend a large sum of money AA'hich ought to remain in their own hands for the purposes of charit . He must also take occasion to that he thought some

y say of the brethren had rather unwisely set forth that it was not in their power to sell or lease their own property . Now he AA-as not a lawyer , but a man of plain common , sense , and when he knew that they had leased and sold land , not to an individual but to a public body , Avho had erected a building on it , it ivas absurd to say that no ono AA-ould buy of them . They had sold land to the Weslcyan body upon ivhich they had erected their schools , and he had no reason to doubt but that they were perfectly

satisfied with their title . As regarded the reference of this subject to a committee it was impossible that they could have seven men who would all take the same views , and each one must be prepared to give and take upon it . He thought it would be unfair to the Board of General Purposes , who had worked so hard if Grand Lodge refused to receive the plans they had prepared , and he trusted that they would receive them at their next meeting . He ivould say not the plans of the Board of General Purposes only , hut of any other brother

, so that by sifting them at their next meeting they ivould determine ivhat ivas good and what Avas bad and enable them to come to a satisfactory conclusion . He Avished before he sat doAvn , although he knew that he was treading on dangerous ground , to refer to ivhat had taken place that evening . In the heat of the moment they might bo led to use hasty words , but AA'ithout Availing for ivhich should be first , let every one withdraiv them before they parted and then they ivould meet at their next meeting as better friends .

Bro . ROXEUEGH wished to draw the attention of Grand Lodge to the Boole of Constitutions ; which required that there should be no alteration of a law without a notice of motion had been given to a Board of Masters , and he submitted that the Grand Master had no more poiver to propose an alteration of the laiv than any other member of Grand Lodge .

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