Skip to main content
Museum of Freemasonry

Masonic Periodicals Online

  • Explore
  • Advanced Search
  • Home
  • Explore
  • The Freemason's Chronicle
  • Oct. 20, 1888
  • Page 2
  • MASONRY AT THE BANQUET TABLE.
Current:

The Freemason's Chronicle, Oct. 20, 1888: Page 2

  • Back to The Freemason's Chronicle, Oct. 20, 1888
  • Print image
  • Articles/Ads
    Article MASONRY AT THE BANQUET TABLE. ← Page 2 of 2
    Article COMMENTS ON " FACTS AND FICTIONS." Page 1 of 2
    Article COMMENTS ON " FACTS AND FICTIONS." Page 1 of 2 →
Page 2

Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.

Masonry At The Banquet Table.

importance of the question involved , have formulated a decision which is wholly opposed to the principles of Freemasonry , and which , we venture to think , will speedily be reversed .

Comments On " Facts And Fictions."

COMMENTS ON " FACTS AND FICTIONS . "

BY BROTHER JACOB NORTON . AS far as I know , Brother Hughan did not agree with Brother Sadler's Facts . This I learned from a communication of Bro . Sadler ' s , in the Freemason , some months ago ; but I do not know on what point they

disagreed . Previous to my last trip to England I read part of Brother Sadler ' s " Facts and Fictions , " and when I met my esteemed brother in London I frankly told him that I was not converted to his theory . Brother Sadler ,

however , urged me to give my opinion m print after I had read the whole book . Well ! I have now read the whole book , but my opinion is unchanged . I am sorry to find

fault with Brother Sadler s theory ; I hope , however , that he will not be offended , for I have reluctantly undertaken this task at his request .

An author of a History of the Popes ( whose name I do not remember ) began his book thus : " Tradition ( said he ) was a convicted liar , but as a liar may sometimes tell the truth , listen therefore to what he has to say , but do not

believe a word of his , unless it is supported by reliable evidence . " Now , I cannot say much in favour of the truthfulness of Masonic historians of the last century . They were all , indeed , more or less untruthful . But in my

opinion , Laurence Dermott was the most shameless , impudent , and unscrupulous story-teller of all of them . * First , the Ancients started in 1751 with five or six Lodges , numbering all together between seventy and

eighty members , that is , about a baker ' s dozen for each

Lodge , and these Lodges were dubbed " Time Immemorial . " Now , if those Lodges had been very old , or if they could have traced their pedigree , say to 1716 , Dermott would have furnished the histories of his Lodges ;

but as he did nothing of the kind , and dated them all 1752 , it is therefore highly probably that the said Lodges were organised just for the purpose of forming an

independent Grand Lodge , and that there was nothing " Immemorial " about them , and they had no right to pretend to antiquity , or to the name of " Ancients . "

I shall , however , endeavour to define the line of demarcation between Ancient and Modem Masons , thus : We all know the origin of the Masons' organisation in the Middle Ages was merely for the purpose of getting high

wages , the same as all other guilds did , and the same as our " trade unions " of to-day do . All the guilds used to take into their societies honorary members , that is , lords , gentlemen , or even mechanics of other trades , and the

Masons did the same . The Masons , however , were a secret society , who could recognise each other by a sign , a word , and a grip . They had but one ceremony or

degree ; there are over fifty of the old rituals still preserved , one of which will be found in " Appendix A " in Bro . Sadler ' s book .

In 1717 , some Lodges in London , while they retained the name " Freemasons , " and perhaps the old word and sign or grip too , discarded all the old laws , ceremonies , and usages ; thus , instead of one degree , they invented

three entire new ceremonies or degrees . In short , they turned everything topsy-turvy ; so much so , that if the author of the Halliwell Poem , or of Matthew Cooke ' s MS . had now been allowed to revisit this earth , and while here he had attempted to visit a Lodge constituted after

Comments On " Facts And Fictions."

1723 , he would be regarded as an impostor , and would be refused admission ; and the disappointed visitor , who was the greatest Masonic luminary in his day and generation , would denounce the members of the said Lodges as cmoans and humbugs .

The dividing line , therefore , between ancient and modern Masons should be between those who adhered to the old ritual and old laws , and those who after 1717 discarded everything that was old ( as explained above ) and adopted

entire new forms . Now , there is no doubt that such Lodges existed both in England and in Scotland after 1717 , and these migbt consistently have been called " Ancients , " but as soon as these Lodges enrolled themselves under the

new Constitution they ceased to be ancxents ; thus in 1721 Desaguliers visited the Edinburgh Lodge , then it was an ancient Lodge , but after he impregnated the said Lodge with the new forms , ceremonies and degrees , it ceased to

be ancient . In 1736 the Grand Lodge of Scotland was formed under the new Constitution , and a great many Scotch Lodges which joined the Grand Lodge became modems ; other Scotch . Lodges , however , retained the old

forms . These might consistently have been denominated as ancients . In England the Alnwick Lodge , whose records still exist from 1701 to 1757 , though it admitted outsiders of their trade as honorary members , still

it adhered to the old forms , Constitution , and usages , and it had but one degree , it was , therefore , really and truly a Lodge of ancients . But the six Lodges that formed a Grand Lodge in London in 1752 had not only three degrees

but had also a fourth degree , viz ., the Royal Arch , and its Constitution was entirely , or almost so , copied from the Constitution of the Moderns . It was , therefore , sheer impudence on the part of Dermott to palm them off as ancient Masons .

Second , it was impertinent on the part of Dermott to claim descent from the York Masons . Bro . Sadler indeed denies that such a claim was ever made ( see 7 th Chapter of " Facts and Fictions " ) . Bro . Sadler , however , never saw

a Warrant of the Ancients older than 1772 ; but Bro . Brennan , in his History , printed in 1875 , on page 368 , prints a copy of a Warrant from Dermott to Erasmus James Philips , at Halifax , Nova Scotia , which begins thus :

" We , the Grand Lodge of Free and Accepted ( York ) Masons . " It is evident , therefore , that before the revival of the York Grand Lodge he claimed authority from York ,

but after the York Grand Lodge was revived he changed the phrase into " According to the old Constitutions granted by His Royal Highness Prince Edwin at York . "

Third , the dubbing of his Constitutions " Ahiman Rezon " was designed to impose on his dupes that he was a Hebrew scholar . The said words , however , are not Hebrew , and were a pure invention of Dermott . Fourth , Dermott says

that" Several eminent Craftsmen in Scotland , Ireland , America , and other parts abroad and at home , importuned me to give them some account of what is called Modern Masonry in London . "

And here follows a series of questions and answers , among which are the following , viz .: — " Whether there is any material difference between the Ancients and Moderns . "

Answer , " A great deal , because an Ancient Mason cannot only make himself known to his brother , but in case of necessity can discover his very thoughts to bim in the presence of a Modern without ( his ) being able to distinguish that either of them are Freemasons . " This is certainly a ivhopper , but here is something

equally good , — " The number of Antient Masons , compared with the Moderns being as ninety-nine to one , proves the universality of the old Order , and the utility thereof appears by the love and respect shown to the brethren in

consequence of their superior abilities m conversation with , and distinguishing the Masons of all countries and denominations , a circumstance peculiar to Ancient Masons . " And he follows up the above

thus" I am so well acquainted with the truth of what I have just now asserted that I am not in the least apprehensive of being contradicted . " The reader must doubtless be desirous to learn about the

precise period of the deterioration of the London Grand Lodge of 1717 , which produced such disastrous results , as described above . Here therefore is Bro . Dermott ' s answer ,

he says" The innovation was made in the reign of King George

“The Freemason's Chronicle: 1888-10-20, Page 2” Masonic Periodicals Online, Library and Museum of Freemasonry, 23 April 2026, django:8000/periodicals/fcn/issues/fcn_20101888/page/2/.
  • List
  • Grid
Title Category Page
MASONRY AT THE BANQUET TABLE. Article 1
COMMENTS ON " FACTS AND FICTIONS." Article 2
PERSONAL WORTH. Article 3
PROV. GRAND LODGE OF SUSSEX. Article 4
NOTICES OF MEETINGS. Article 6
OLD ENGLAND LODGE, No. 1790. Article 7
Untitled Ad 7
Untitled Ad 8
Untitled Ad 8
Untitled Ad 8
Untitled Ad 8
Untitled Ad 8
Untitled Ad 8
Untitled Ad 8
Untitled Ad 8
Untitled Ad 8
Untitled Article 8
LAYING THE MEMORIAL STONE OF THE CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL AT LEICESTER. Article 8
LAYING THE MEMORIAL STONE OF THE VICTORIA PUBLIC LIBRARY AT GRANGEMOUTH. Article 9
CORRESPONDENCE. Article 10
THE THEATRES, &c. Article 10
PRUDENCE LODGE, No. 2069. Article 11
REVIEWS. Article 11
Untitled Ad 11
Untitled Ad 11
DIARY FOR THE WEEK. Article 12
A NEW HALL FOR HULL. Article 13
Untitled Ad 13
Untitled Ad 13
LIST OF RARE AND VALUABLE WORKS ON FREEMASONRY. Article 14
Untitled Ad 15
Untitled Ad 15
Untitled Ad 15
Untitled Ad 15
Untitled Ad 15
Untitled Ad 15
Untitled Ad 15
Untitled Ad 16
Untitled Ad 16
Untitled Ad 16
Untitled Ad 16
Untitled Ad 16
Untitled Ad 16
Untitled Ad 16
Untitled Ad 16
Untitled Ad 16
Untitled Ad 16
Untitled Ad 16
Page 1

Page 1

2 Articles
Page 2

Page 2

3 Articles
Page 3

Page 3

3 Articles
Page 4

Page 4

2 Articles
Page 5

Page 5

2 Articles
Page 6

Page 6

2 Articles
Page 7

Page 7

4 Articles
Page 8

Page 8

11 Articles
Page 9

Page 9

3 Articles
Page 10

Page 10

3 Articles
Page 11

Page 11

4 Articles
Page 12

Page 12

2 Articles
Page 13

Page 13

5 Articles
Page 14

Page 14

2 Articles
Page 15

Page 15

7 Articles
Page 16

Page 16

11 Articles
Page 2

Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.

Masonry At The Banquet Table.

importance of the question involved , have formulated a decision which is wholly opposed to the principles of Freemasonry , and which , we venture to think , will speedily be reversed .

Comments On " Facts And Fictions."

COMMENTS ON " FACTS AND FICTIONS . "

BY BROTHER JACOB NORTON . AS far as I know , Brother Hughan did not agree with Brother Sadler's Facts . This I learned from a communication of Bro . Sadler ' s , in the Freemason , some months ago ; but I do not know on what point they

disagreed . Previous to my last trip to England I read part of Brother Sadler ' s " Facts and Fictions , " and when I met my esteemed brother in London I frankly told him that I was not converted to his theory . Brother Sadler ,

however , urged me to give my opinion m print after I had read the whole book . Well ! I have now read the whole book , but my opinion is unchanged . I am sorry to find

fault with Brother Sadler s theory ; I hope , however , that he will not be offended , for I have reluctantly undertaken this task at his request .

An author of a History of the Popes ( whose name I do not remember ) began his book thus : " Tradition ( said he ) was a convicted liar , but as a liar may sometimes tell the truth , listen therefore to what he has to say , but do not

believe a word of his , unless it is supported by reliable evidence . " Now , I cannot say much in favour of the truthfulness of Masonic historians of the last century . They were all , indeed , more or less untruthful . But in my

opinion , Laurence Dermott was the most shameless , impudent , and unscrupulous story-teller of all of them . * First , the Ancients started in 1751 with five or six Lodges , numbering all together between seventy and

eighty members , that is , about a baker ' s dozen for each

Lodge , and these Lodges were dubbed " Time Immemorial . " Now , if those Lodges had been very old , or if they could have traced their pedigree , say to 1716 , Dermott would have furnished the histories of his Lodges ;

but as he did nothing of the kind , and dated them all 1752 , it is therefore highly probably that the said Lodges were organised just for the purpose of forming an

independent Grand Lodge , and that there was nothing " Immemorial " about them , and they had no right to pretend to antiquity , or to the name of " Ancients . "

I shall , however , endeavour to define the line of demarcation between Ancient and Modem Masons , thus : We all know the origin of the Masons' organisation in the Middle Ages was merely for the purpose of getting high

wages , the same as all other guilds did , and the same as our " trade unions " of to-day do . All the guilds used to take into their societies honorary members , that is , lords , gentlemen , or even mechanics of other trades , and the

Masons did the same . The Masons , however , were a secret society , who could recognise each other by a sign , a word , and a grip . They had but one ceremony or

degree ; there are over fifty of the old rituals still preserved , one of which will be found in " Appendix A " in Bro . Sadler ' s book .

In 1717 , some Lodges in London , while they retained the name " Freemasons , " and perhaps the old word and sign or grip too , discarded all the old laws , ceremonies , and usages ; thus , instead of one degree , they invented

three entire new ceremonies or degrees . In short , they turned everything topsy-turvy ; so much so , that if the author of the Halliwell Poem , or of Matthew Cooke ' s MS . had now been allowed to revisit this earth , and while here he had attempted to visit a Lodge constituted after

Comments On " Facts And Fictions."

1723 , he would be regarded as an impostor , and would be refused admission ; and the disappointed visitor , who was the greatest Masonic luminary in his day and generation , would denounce the members of the said Lodges as cmoans and humbugs .

The dividing line , therefore , between ancient and modern Masons should be between those who adhered to the old ritual and old laws , and those who after 1717 discarded everything that was old ( as explained above ) and adopted

entire new forms . Now , there is no doubt that such Lodges existed both in England and in Scotland after 1717 , and these migbt consistently have been called " Ancients , " but as soon as these Lodges enrolled themselves under the

new Constitution they ceased to be ancxents ; thus in 1721 Desaguliers visited the Edinburgh Lodge , then it was an ancient Lodge , but after he impregnated the said Lodge with the new forms , ceremonies and degrees , it ceased to

be ancient . In 1736 the Grand Lodge of Scotland was formed under the new Constitution , and a great many Scotch Lodges which joined the Grand Lodge became modems ; other Scotch . Lodges , however , retained the old

forms . These might consistently have been denominated as ancients . In England the Alnwick Lodge , whose records still exist from 1701 to 1757 , though it admitted outsiders of their trade as honorary members , still

it adhered to the old forms , Constitution , and usages , and it had but one degree , it was , therefore , really and truly a Lodge of ancients . But the six Lodges that formed a Grand Lodge in London in 1752 had not only three degrees

but had also a fourth degree , viz ., the Royal Arch , and its Constitution was entirely , or almost so , copied from the Constitution of the Moderns . It was , therefore , sheer impudence on the part of Dermott to palm them off as ancient Masons .

Second , it was impertinent on the part of Dermott to claim descent from the York Masons . Bro . Sadler indeed denies that such a claim was ever made ( see 7 th Chapter of " Facts and Fictions " ) . Bro . Sadler , however , never saw

a Warrant of the Ancients older than 1772 ; but Bro . Brennan , in his History , printed in 1875 , on page 368 , prints a copy of a Warrant from Dermott to Erasmus James Philips , at Halifax , Nova Scotia , which begins thus :

" We , the Grand Lodge of Free and Accepted ( York ) Masons . " It is evident , therefore , that before the revival of the York Grand Lodge he claimed authority from York ,

but after the York Grand Lodge was revived he changed the phrase into " According to the old Constitutions granted by His Royal Highness Prince Edwin at York . "

Third , the dubbing of his Constitutions " Ahiman Rezon " was designed to impose on his dupes that he was a Hebrew scholar . The said words , however , are not Hebrew , and were a pure invention of Dermott . Fourth , Dermott says

that" Several eminent Craftsmen in Scotland , Ireland , America , and other parts abroad and at home , importuned me to give them some account of what is called Modern Masonry in London . "

And here follows a series of questions and answers , among which are the following , viz .: — " Whether there is any material difference between the Ancients and Moderns . "

Answer , " A great deal , because an Ancient Mason cannot only make himself known to his brother , but in case of necessity can discover his very thoughts to bim in the presence of a Modern without ( his ) being able to distinguish that either of them are Freemasons . " This is certainly a ivhopper , but here is something

equally good , — " The number of Antient Masons , compared with the Moderns being as ninety-nine to one , proves the universality of the old Order , and the utility thereof appears by the love and respect shown to the brethren in

consequence of their superior abilities m conversation with , and distinguishing the Masons of all countries and denominations , a circumstance peculiar to Ancient Masons . " And he follows up the above

thus" I am so well acquainted with the truth of what I have just now asserted that I am not in the least apprehensive of being contradicted . " The reader must doubtless be desirous to learn about the

precise period of the deterioration of the London Grand Lodge of 1717 , which produced such disastrous results , as described above . Here therefore is Bro . Dermott ' s answer ,

he says" The innovation was made in the reign of King George

  • Prev page
  • 1
  • You're on page2
  • 3
  • 16
  • Next page
  • Accredited Museum Designated Outstanding Collection
  • LIBRARY AND MUSEUM CHARITABLE TRUST OF THE UNITED GRAND LODGE OF ENGLAND REGISTERED CHARITY NUMBER 1058497 / ALL RIGHTS RESERVED © 2026

  • Accessibility statement

  • Designed, developed, and maintained by King's Digital Lab

We use cookies to track usage and preferences.

Privacy & cookie policy