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  • The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine
  • Dec. 19, 1868
  • Page 9
  • MASONIC NOTES AND QUERIES.
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The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine, Dec. 19, 1868: Page 9

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    Article MASONIC NOTES AND QUERIES. ← Page 2 of 3 →
Page 9

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Masonic Notes And Queries.

to which the MSS . are somewhat contradictory in themselves , inasmuch as whilst the arfc claims an Eastern origin aud an introduction into this country in the time of the Romans , it is brought doAvn as a geometrical school of Euclid , through Charles Martel ( the English tradition of whose brotherhood has been

recently confirmed by ancient French documents on stone-masonry ) to the organization of an English architectural guild by King Athelstan , on the model of similar associations elseAvhere existing . In Norway the "Heims Kringla" ( translated byS . Laing ) seems to imply a foreign derivation , and the establishment

of the guilds by King Olaf Kyrre ( 1069—93 ) , and may possibly be of English derivation , as King Hakon was educated at the Court of Athelstan of England , as his foster son . These stone-masons' guilds existed in England doAvn to about 1650 and in Scotland to 1721 in their

, , original state , but there seems to have been too little stone building iu England or in Norway to render it probable either that the English association could date beyond ( at auy rate ) the time of Athelstan , or that the Runic marks could have been gathered in either country .

Conde , however , in his " Dominion of the Arabs in Spain , " shows the perfect state of stone work there and in the East , and informs ns that in the 7 th cenfcurv 12 , 000 stone-cutters were emnloved on the

great Alamja at Damascus : various inscriptions are given also , as existing in Spain , showing the state of the art » in that country , where , until about A . D . 1000 , the Runes were in use , then prohibited by the Holy Father ; and it seems highly probable that these secret architectural schools passed , according to tradition , to

Charles Martel and the French , from the Arabs through Spain , and gathered Runic marks—in addition to the older forms—in the latter country . What renders this view still more probable is , that whilst it agrees with traditional history , there is also great resemblance of the present three degrees of

Freemasonry to certain secret associations now existing amongst the Dervishes of Turkey , the Druses , & c , which , with the Arabian association of the " House of Solomon " ( 10 th century ) ancl the three Degrees of Knighthood ( Page , Esquire , ancl Knight ) —not to mention the Brotherhood of the Rosy Cross

, which claimed an Arabic origin—may easily , as implied by the resemblance of ceremonial rites , have been derived from the ancient reli g ious mysteries , of Avhich the latest description is found in Apulieus' Matamorphosis , who in the 2 nd century describes his initiation into three degrees of the Isis . We Avant a

reliable account collected from all sources of these secret associations , as it is possible that many of the Gnostic sects Avere derived from the scattered mysteries of Isis , Eeusis , aud Mithras . —A

MASONIC CHARTERS . Bro . Oneal Haye ' s letter , interesting in itself , seems to require to he supplemented by a correct transcri pt of the Latin Charter itself , or , at any rate , of that part of it in AA'hich mention is made of tho " fraternity . " If , thereforeBro . Oneal Haye would kindl

, y take this trouble , he Avould not only confer a favour on Masonic students like myself , but Avould further the common cause of Masonic inquiry and historical accuracy . —A MASONIC STUDENT .

BRO . D ' ASSIGNT . Bro . Hughan will render a great service to "Notes and Queries " and to Masonic students , beyond those he has already conferred , by printing further details from D'Assigny . Such , for instance , as the names of the Masters of the Dublin Lodges . We want more of this personal matter . Such a note as he has made of the female Freemason is very valuable . —NOTA .

FREEMASONRY AND CHRISTIANITY . Bro . A . O . Haye asks sarcastically if Bro . White , IS , can point out anything Christian between the 4 th ancl 17 th degrees inclusive . When Bro . Haye has himself become a real Rose Croix Mason , under the English Constitution , he will know that the 14 th

ends the Jewish , or Temple of King Solomon degrees , and that the 17 th degree is Christian . I am , however , quite ready to agree with Bro . Haye that Christianity is not to be found in Craft Masonry , and it is only in the higher degrees that Judaism and Theism cease and Christianity begins . —Red > J < .

CENTENARIES IN 1869 . The note of Bro . Hughan upon me is a very good one . Although I know , by having seen some warrants , that the numbers do not indicate the real antiquity of the lodges , I AV . IS guided by the Grand Loclge of England Caleudar in choosing the nine ,

which he has reduced to one . NOAV he has got something else to do—as he has old Calendars and I have only neAV—that is , to take from the earlier numbers on the list such " ancient" lodges as may chance to have a centenary in 1769 , for the reduced list created by him is only a list of the " moderns . " —NOTA .

C ORK CATHEDRAL AND CORK GUILDS . Among the curiosities of Dr . Nelligan sold last Aveek Avas the old mace of the Cork Guilds . This leads me to ask , Avas there a guild of Masons there ? So to another affair . The first Cathedral built in Ireland since the Reformation is Cork Cathedral , by

Bro . William Barges , of No . 10 . The first in England AVUS St . Paul ' s , built by Bro . Sir C . Wren , and Freemasons claim a part in it , as the Lodge of Antiquity attests . The Cork Freemasons haA'e o ; iven a Avindow to Cork Cathedral , why should not English Freemasons have a Avindow there ? About : 6200 Avould provide a suitable memorial . —UNION .

SCOTS NOT SCOTCH . We say— " Mary , Queen of Scots , " " Picts and Scots , " the "Scots Magazine , '' the "Scotsman , " and the " Scots Greys . " " Scotch " I have always understood to be a vulgarism , which , although sanctioned by the names of Burns and Scott , Avas condemned by

Hume , Henry Mackenzie , Henry Erskine , and the Avriters in the "Scots Magazine . " Public bodies never call themselves " Scotch / ' but Scottish , " or "Scots , ' as the " Scots Law Society , " "Royal Scottish Academy . " The matter , however , appears totally uuAvorthy of Bros . Buchan and Lyon . — ANTHONY ONEAL HAYE .

ROSICRUCIANS ( p . 471 ) . Which exposition of the Rosicrucians wc are to receive , who can tell ? hut from thafc of Bro . Oneal Haye it is satisfactory to learn that the present society has nothing to do AA'ith Freemasonry . We question it whether the older society , which Bro .

“The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine: 1868-12-19, Page 9” Masonic Periodicals Online, Library and Museum of Freemasonry, 9 May 2025, django:8000/periodicals/mmr/issues/mmr_19121868/page/9/.
  • List
  • Grid
Title Category Page
THE KNIGHTS TEMPLARS. Article 1
CHAPTER XI. Article 4
MASONIC DISCIPLINE.—III. Article 5
THE SIX DAYS' WORK OF CREATION IN HONOUR OF MASONRY. Article 7
MASONIC NOTES AND QUERIES. Article 8
CORRESPONDENCE. Article 10
BRO. MANNINGHAM AND BRO. FINDEL. Article 11
BRO. MANNINGHAM. Article 11
FREEMASONRY AND CHRISTIANITY. Article 11
SHAKESPEARE A FREEMASON. Article 12
MASONIC MEMS. Article 12
METROPOLITAN. Article 13
PROVINCIAL. Article 13
SCOTLAND. Article 16
ISLE OF MAN. Article 16
ROYAL ARCH. Article 17
MARK MASONRY. Article 17
MASONIC LIFEBOAT FUND. Article 17
PUBLIC AMUSEMENTS. Article 20
METROPOLITAN LODGE MEETINGS, ETC., FOR THE WEEK ENDING DECEMBER 26TH , 1868. Article 20
Poetry. Article 20
TO CORRESPONDENTS. Article 20
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Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.

Masonic Notes And Queries.

to which the MSS . are somewhat contradictory in themselves , inasmuch as whilst the arfc claims an Eastern origin aud an introduction into this country in the time of the Romans , it is brought doAvn as a geometrical school of Euclid , through Charles Martel ( the English tradition of whose brotherhood has been

recently confirmed by ancient French documents on stone-masonry ) to the organization of an English architectural guild by King Athelstan , on the model of similar associations elseAvhere existing . In Norway the "Heims Kringla" ( translated byS . Laing ) seems to imply a foreign derivation , and the establishment

of the guilds by King Olaf Kyrre ( 1069—93 ) , and may possibly be of English derivation , as King Hakon was educated at the Court of Athelstan of England , as his foster son . These stone-masons' guilds existed in England doAvn to about 1650 and in Scotland to 1721 in their

, , original state , but there seems to have been too little stone building iu England or in Norway to render it probable either that the English association could date beyond ( at auy rate ) the time of Athelstan , or that the Runic marks could have been gathered in either country .

Conde , however , in his " Dominion of the Arabs in Spain , " shows the perfect state of stone work there and in the East , and informs ns that in the 7 th cenfcurv 12 , 000 stone-cutters were emnloved on the

great Alamja at Damascus : various inscriptions are given also , as existing in Spain , showing the state of the art » in that country , where , until about A . D . 1000 , the Runes were in use , then prohibited by the Holy Father ; and it seems highly probable that these secret architectural schools passed , according to tradition , to

Charles Martel and the French , from the Arabs through Spain , and gathered Runic marks—in addition to the older forms—in the latter country . What renders this view still more probable is , that whilst it agrees with traditional history , there is also great resemblance of the present three degrees of

Freemasonry to certain secret associations now existing amongst the Dervishes of Turkey , the Druses , & c , which , with the Arabian association of the " House of Solomon " ( 10 th century ) ancl the three Degrees of Knighthood ( Page , Esquire , ancl Knight ) —not to mention the Brotherhood of the Rosy Cross

, which claimed an Arabic origin—may easily , as implied by the resemblance of ceremonial rites , have been derived from the ancient reli g ious mysteries , of Avhich the latest description is found in Apulieus' Matamorphosis , who in the 2 nd century describes his initiation into three degrees of the Isis . We Avant a

reliable account collected from all sources of these secret associations , as it is possible that many of the Gnostic sects Avere derived from the scattered mysteries of Isis , Eeusis , aud Mithras . —A

MASONIC CHARTERS . Bro . Oneal Haye ' s letter , interesting in itself , seems to require to he supplemented by a correct transcri pt of the Latin Charter itself , or , at any rate , of that part of it in AA'hich mention is made of tho " fraternity . " If , thereforeBro . Oneal Haye would kindl

, y take this trouble , he Avould not only confer a favour on Masonic students like myself , but Avould further the common cause of Masonic inquiry and historical accuracy . —A MASONIC STUDENT .

BRO . D ' ASSIGNT . Bro . Hughan will render a great service to "Notes and Queries " and to Masonic students , beyond those he has already conferred , by printing further details from D'Assigny . Such , for instance , as the names of the Masters of the Dublin Lodges . We want more of this personal matter . Such a note as he has made of the female Freemason is very valuable . —NOTA .

FREEMASONRY AND CHRISTIANITY . Bro . A . O . Haye asks sarcastically if Bro . White , IS , can point out anything Christian between the 4 th ancl 17 th degrees inclusive . When Bro . Haye has himself become a real Rose Croix Mason , under the English Constitution , he will know that the 14 th

ends the Jewish , or Temple of King Solomon degrees , and that the 17 th degree is Christian . I am , however , quite ready to agree with Bro . Haye that Christianity is not to be found in Craft Masonry , and it is only in the higher degrees that Judaism and Theism cease and Christianity begins . —Red > J < .

CENTENARIES IN 1869 . The note of Bro . Hughan upon me is a very good one . Although I know , by having seen some warrants , that the numbers do not indicate the real antiquity of the lodges , I AV . IS guided by the Grand Loclge of England Caleudar in choosing the nine ,

which he has reduced to one . NOAV he has got something else to do—as he has old Calendars and I have only neAV—that is , to take from the earlier numbers on the list such " ancient" lodges as may chance to have a centenary in 1769 , for the reduced list created by him is only a list of the " moderns . " —NOTA .

C ORK CATHEDRAL AND CORK GUILDS . Among the curiosities of Dr . Nelligan sold last Aveek Avas the old mace of the Cork Guilds . This leads me to ask , Avas there a guild of Masons there ? So to another affair . The first Cathedral built in Ireland since the Reformation is Cork Cathedral , by

Bro . William Barges , of No . 10 . The first in England AVUS St . Paul ' s , built by Bro . Sir C . Wren , and Freemasons claim a part in it , as the Lodge of Antiquity attests . The Cork Freemasons haA'e o ; iven a Avindow to Cork Cathedral , why should not English Freemasons have a Avindow there ? About : 6200 Avould provide a suitable memorial . —UNION .

SCOTS NOT SCOTCH . We say— " Mary , Queen of Scots , " " Picts and Scots , " the "Scots Magazine , '' the "Scotsman , " and the " Scots Greys . " " Scotch " I have always understood to be a vulgarism , which , although sanctioned by the names of Burns and Scott , Avas condemned by

Hume , Henry Mackenzie , Henry Erskine , and the Avriters in the "Scots Magazine . " Public bodies never call themselves " Scotch / ' but Scottish , " or "Scots , ' as the " Scots Law Society , " "Royal Scottish Academy . " The matter , however , appears totally uuAvorthy of Bros . Buchan and Lyon . — ANTHONY ONEAL HAYE .

ROSICRUCIANS ( p . 471 ) . Which exposition of the Rosicrucians wc are to receive , who can tell ? hut from thafc of Bro . Oneal Haye it is satisfactory to learn that the present society has nothing to do AA'ith Freemasonry . We question it whether the older society , which Bro .

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