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  • April 3, 1869
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The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine, April 3, 1869: Page 8

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    Article MASONIC NOTES AND QUERIES. ← Page 2 of 3 →
Page 8

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Masonic Notes And Queries.

that its landmarks were known long before the revival in 1715 . I may then say , in addition , that all the evidence we now have points umnistakeably to the identity of our speculative with the operative Order . The Constitutions among the Ilarleian MSS ., which once belonged to the Chester Guild of Freemasons

, give us the difference iu sums paid for admission of speculative aud operative members , and these constitutions belong to the end of the 17 th century—at least , they were copied then . In another Harleian MS . we find what are called the " New Articles nr

Constitutions , " which some writers have fixed as being passed by the Grand Assembly in 16 G 0 , and which afford clear evidence of the introduction and rapid increase of the speculative element . The two earliest known admissions of speculative Masons—1645 and 1616—are made into operative lodges . I

must , therefore , utterly dispute the assertion of " Pictus , " that Masonry has no antiquity and is of quite modern date , or that there is any real doubt of the identity between operative and speculative Freemasonry . I believe , on the contrary , after the studies of several yearsthat we are gradually accumulating

, data and documents , authentic facts and genuine evidences from which we shall one day be able to put together ( especially in its connexion with the operative sodalities ) a trustworth y and creditable history of our useful and benevolent Order . —A MASONIC STUDENT .

TREEMASONRY ABOUT TAVO HUNDRED TEARS ODD . I am glad to find "A Masonic Student " has come forward as the champion of the pseudo-great antiquity of Freemasonry , and I shall be happy to hear whatever he or anyone else can say in opposition to the views I have stated at page 22 S " of the Magazine . All

I desire is to get at the truth , and , with a fair field and no favour , I say bring forward your proofs , pile them upon me , and , if they be genuine , of course I am bound to admit them . I intend to give time to any brother who can say anvthing ou the subject . One thing I would like : "A Masonic

Student" refers to certain MSS . at page 250 , will lie say if these , or copies of them , are printed in the Magazine , and , if so , where ? Or , if not , will he mention where any MSS ., or other writing or writ referred to , can be seen , so that all may know exactly what is referred to . I trust that , after the " spar "

is ended and the summing up given , we will be able to say that the true History of Freemasonry lias been advanced a little , however little that advancement may be . As to " a poem on the constitutions of Masonry , " published in J . 0 . Harwell ' s small book , I am not

prepared at present to admit its age to be the 14 th century . The MS . we are told belonged to a collector of the 17 th century . And , as to a MSS . entitled the " Beginning and first foundation of the most worthy Craft of Masonry , with the charges thereto belonging , " which Halliwell says was written about 1600 I

, have to say that the Editor of the Freemasons ' Magazine , July 16 , 1 S 59 , says it " is not more than 130 years old . " However , as to these , more hereafter . —PICTUS ,

DODGE MINUTES , ETC . Under the above heading I iutend to give a few extracts from old minute-books , and the following is

from what I believe to be the oldest extant minutebook of the Glasgow Incorporation of Masons ; said book commences at A . D . 1600 and ends at 16 S 1 . Bro . W . Hill , writer , here had the old minute-book for examination , and the following is what he says about it : —

" Although mention is not unfrequently made of the charter or seal of cause granted by the magistrates in 1551 in favour of the Incorporation ( see December 11 th , 1600 ; 29 th September , 1609 , and 4 th October , 1616 ) , the only notice anent the lodge is in a minute of date 22 nd September , 1620 , to the

following effect : — ' Entry of Apprentices to the Lodge of Glasgow . The last day of december , 1613 years , compeared John Stewart , Deacon of Masons , aud signified to David Slater , Warden of the Lodge of Glasgow , aud to the remenant brethren of that lodge , that he was to enter John Stewart , his apprentice , in the said lodge . Lykas upon the morn being

the first day of January , 1614 years , the said Warden and brethren of the said lodge entered the said John Stewart younger , apprentice to the said John Stewart elder , conform , to the acts and liberty of the lodge . ' What the object of this quotation from the records of the lodge , in the minutes of the Incorporation of this particular date * wasis not very evidentas the

, , quotation is simply interjected without any preface or allusion whatever between a minute respecting the booking of William Millar as servant to Malcolm Suodgrass , and a similar minute recording the booking of James Love as another servant with Malcolm Snodgrass both at one and the same meeting . "

Deacon's Court , anno 1601 . —Andrew Boyd Deacon . Quartermasters .- — -William Dunlop , ante-deacon y Michael Glasgow , George Esdaill , John Boyd , Alexander Stewart , John Raukine . Keepers of the Keys . —William Dunlop , John Boyd . Officer- — -William Ritchie .

Clerk —( seems to have been some legal gentleman ) . W . P . BUCHAN . THE CHAIR . In reference to the chair , which m Scotland , in certain lodges , is given indiscriminately to any of the members who have previously received the first three

degrees and the Mark ; it has struck me that this ceremony is merely , perhaps , a relic of some ceremony or farce in vogue when the Deacon , or new Master of the lodge , was first introduced as such . ( I am referring to the time previous to A . D . 1700 , before the M . M . degree was invented ) , and at which all members

of the lodge , Apprentices as Avell as Fellow Crafts , enjoyed the pleasure of being present and assisting . According to the Grand Lodge Laws of Scotland , . 1866 ( chap . 21 , sec . 17 ) , the new R . W . M . should be installed in a lodge opened on the Entered Apprentice Degree ; all business being done on that degree . — CHAIRED MASON .

BUZZWINGS . Another farcical advertisement about Buzzwings appeared in the Times in the end of January . —NOTE .

“The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine: 1869-04-03, Page 8” Masonic Periodicals Online, Library and Museum of Freemasonry, 23 May 2025, django:8000/periodicals/mmr/issues/mmr_03041869/page/8/.
  • List
  • Grid
Title Category Page
EARS OF WHEAT FROM A CORNUCOPIA. Article 1
MASONIC CELESTIAL MYSTERIES. Article 3
FREEMASONRY AND CHRISTIANITY. Article 6
MASONIC NOTES AND QUERIES. Article 7
CORRESPONDENCE. Article 9
"THE IRISH CHURCH FROM A MASONIC POINT OF VIEW." Article 10
P.M.'S AND THE WORKING BRETHREN OF LODGES. Article 10
MASONIC ARCHÆOLOGY . — BRITISH MUSEUM. Article 11
Untitled Article 12
MASONIC MEMS. Article 12
MASONIC ARCHÆOLOG ICAL INSTITUTE. Article 13
METROPOLITAN. Article 15
PROVINCIAL. Article 16
SCOTLAND. Article 18
ROYAL ARCH. Article 18
KNIGHTS TEMPLAR. Article 19
DEDICATION OF THE METHAM MASONIC HALL AT PLYMOUTH. Article 19
MASONIC LIFEBOAT FUND. Article 19
PUBLIC AMUSEMENTS. Article 19
MEETINGS OF THE LEARNED SOCIETIES. Article 19
TO CORRESPONDENTS. Article 20
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Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.

Masonic Notes And Queries.

that its landmarks were known long before the revival in 1715 . I may then say , in addition , that all the evidence we now have points umnistakeably to the identity of our speculative with the operative Order . The Constitutions among the Ilarleian MSS ., which once belonged to the Chester Guild of Freemasons

, give us the difference iu sums paid for admission of speculative aud operative members , and these constitutions belong to the end of the 17 th century—at least , they were copied then . In another Harleian MS . we find what are called the " New Articles nr

Constitutions , " which some writers have fixed as being passed by the Grand Assembly in 16 G 0 , and which afford clear evidence of the introduction and rapid increase of the speculative element . The two earliest known admissions of speculative Masons—1645 and 1616—are made into operative lodges . I

must , therefore , utterly dispute the assertion of " Pictus , " that Masonry has no antiquity and is of quite modern date , or that there is any real doubt of the identity between operative and speculative Freemasonry . I believe , on the contrary , after the studies of several yearsthat we are gradually accumulating

, data and documents , authentic facts and genuine evidences from which we shall one day be able to put together ( especially in its connexion with the operative sodalities ) a trustworth y and creditable history of our useful and benevolent Order . —A MASONIC STUDENT .

TREEMASONRY ABOUT TAVO HUNDRED TEARS ODD . I am glad to find "A Masonic Student " has come forward as the champion of the pseudo-great antiquity of Freemasonry , and I shall be happy to hear whatever he or anyone else can say in opposition to the views I have stated at page 22 S " of the Magazine . All

I desire is to get at the truth , and , with a fair field and no favour , I say bring forward your proofs , pile them upon me , and , if they be genuine , of course I am bound to admit them . I intend to give time to any brother who can say anvthing ou the subject . One thing I would like : "A Masonic

Student" refers to certain MSS . at page 250 , will lie say if these , or copies of them , are printed in the Magazine , and , if so , where ? Or , if not , will he mention where any MSS ., or other writing or writ referred to , can be seen , so that all may know exactly what is referred to . I trust that , after the " spar "

is ended and the summing up given , we will be able to say that the true History of Freemasonry lias been advanced a little , however little that advancement may be . As to " a poem on the constitutions of Masonry , " published in J . 0 . Harwell ' s small book , I am not

prepared at present to admit its age to be the 14 th century . The MS . we are told belonged to a collector of the 17 th century . And , as to a MSS . entitled the " Beginning and first foundation of the most worthy Craft of Masonry , with the charges thereto belonging , " which Halliwell says was written about 1600 I

, have to say that the Editor of the Freemasons ' Magazine , July 16 , 1 S 59 , says it " is not more than 130 years old . " However , as to these , more hereafter . —PICTUS ,

DODGE MINUTES , ETC . Under the above heading I iutend to give a few extracts from old minute-books , and the following is

from what I believe to be the oldest extant minutebook of the Glasgow Incorporation of Masons ; said book commences at A . D . 1600 and ends at 16 S 1 . Bro . W . Hill , writer , here had the old minute-book for examination , and the following is what he says about it : —

" Although mention is not unfrequently made of the charter or seal of cause granted by the magistrates in 1551 in favour of the Incorporation ( see December 11 th , 1600 ; 29 th September , 1609 , and 4 th October , 1616 ) , the only notice anent the lodge is in a minute of date 22 nd September , 1620 , to the

following effect : — ' Entry of Apprentices to the Lodge of Glasgow . The last day of december , 1613 years , compeared John Stewart , Deacon of Masons , aud signified to David Slater , Warden of the Lodge of Glasgow , aud to the remenant brethren of that lodge , that he was to enter John Stewart , his apprentice , in the said lodge . Lykas upon the morn being

the first day of January , 1614 years , the said Warden and brethren of the said lodge entered the said John Stewart younger , apprentice to the said John Stewart elder , conform , to the acts and liberty of the lodge . ' What the object of this quotation from the records of the lodge , in the minutes of the Incorporation of this particular date * wasis not very evidentas the

, , quotation is simply interjected without any preface or allusion whatever between a minute respecting the booking of William Millar as servant to Malcolm Suodgrass , and a similar minute recording the booking of James Love as another servant with Malcolm Snodgrass both at one and the same meeting . "

Deacon's Court , anno 1601 . —Andrew Boyd Deacon . Quartermasters .- — -William Dunlop , ante-deacon y Michael Glasgow , George Esdaill , John Boyd , Alexander Stewart , John Raukine . Keepers of the Keys . —William Dunlop , John Boyd . Officer- — -William Ritchie .

Clerk —( seems to have been some legal gentleman ) . W . P . BUCHAN . THE CHAIR . In reference to the chair , which m Scotland , in certain lodges , is given indiscriminately to any of the members who have previously received the first three

degrees and the Mark ; it has struck me that this ceremony is merely , perhaps , a relic of some ceremony or farce in vogue when the Deacon , or new Master of the lodge , was first introduced as such . ( I am referring to the time previous to A . D . 1700 , before the M . M . degree was invented ) , and at which all members

of the lodge , Apprentices as Avell as Fellow Crafts , enjoyed the pleasure of being present and assisting . According to the Grand Lodge Laws of Scotland , . 1866 ( chap . 21 , sec . 17 ) , the new R . W . M . should be installed in a lodge opened on the Entered Apprentice Degree ; all business being done on that degree . — CHAIRED MASON .

BUZZWINGS . Another farcical advertisement about Buzzwings appeared in the Times in the end of January . —NOTE .

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