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  • March 7, 1863
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  • MASONIC NOTES AND QUERIES.
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The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine, March 7, 1863: Page 10

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    Article MASONIC NOTES AND QUERIES. ← Page 2 of 2
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Masonic Notes And Queries.

other instances of his personal strength , continued the Square , 'but the repetition of them will not be interesting to you . ' Poor Topham ! With all his strength he was as meek as a lamb , and a perfect slave at home , for his termagant helpmate led him a very unquiet life ; and , in the end , ruined him , and forced him from his dwelling . It was at this point of time that Dr . Desaguliers became his friend ancl patron ; for , as a professor of experimental philosophy , betook great interest in his performances .

He placed him in another public-house at the Hermitage , with the sign of the Ship ; ancl , after making him a Mason , established a lodge at bis house , as a means of increasing his business by the introduction of his friends . And , -I must say , the loclge was well conducted , with Bro . Desaguliers at its head as the Master ; and increased rapidly in numbers and respectability . Its cognizance was the redoubtable Thomas Topham matching his strength against that of a horsewith his feet propped by the fragment

, of a wall ; and its name , the Strong-man Lodge . Topham , bowever , unfortunately took to drinking , and the business fell into other hands ; but the lodge , prospered , and was considered a crack establishment when the poor fellow and his patron were no more . " —BOOKWOHM . MONSTER MASONIC MEETING . The centenary of the Grand Lodge of Massachusetts

was celebrated on the 21 th June , 1862 . A procession was formed of 54 » Masonic bodies , composed of 2500 brethren , with 8 bands of music ; ifc was upwards of a mile in length . In the banquetting pavilion , 3000 plates Avere laid . One ¦ thousand pounds of boned turkeys Avas an insignificant item in the bill of fare . TEMPLAR OPERATIVE CONSTITUTIONS

Are there any known Templar documents , or rules , for the governance of the . Operative Masons . The existing Constitutions are those of the Gothic builders , which style is supposed to have been introduced by the Crusaders . —A .

Correspondence.

CORRESPONDENCE .

The Editor is not responsible for the opinions expressed by Correspondents . THE ANTIQUITY OF MASONIC DEGREES . TO THE EDITOR OP THE 1 'ItEEiIASOJtS' MAGAZINE AKD 3 TASOXIG MIRROR . DEAR SIR AND BROTHER , —I should not have ventured again to trespass on your limited space , had it not been for " Delta ' s " letter in the MAGAZINE of to-day .

My answer to it is partly anticipated by your " Notice to Correspondents , " where , as " Delta" will see , you kindly correct the errata in last number , by substituting " sever " for " sneer , " which was a misprint . I hope thafc long before even "Delta" reads these words of mine , he Avill have dismissed from his mind any idea of personality .

I can , I think , safely say that my motto has been defence , not defiance , in everything that I have ventured to advance ; and I may fairly claim for these , my lucubrations , whether sound or unsound , the unchanging Interest and painstaking study of over 20 years as a Mason . Feeling thai ? some of " Delta ' s " remarks aud allusions

concerning myself may be the result of a misconception , -caused by an accidental misprint in my last , I pass them by to day , thou gh I might justly take serious exception to them , especially to one most uumasonic expressiongulled . I am , however , most anxious that our so far -friendly controversy should remain clear of anything like personal rejoinder , and therefore think it better to leave

the matter where it stands . "Delta" asks , however , one question Avhich requires a reply . " What then becomes , " he enquires , " of Ebor ' s boasted agreement between operative and accepted Masonry ?" This query is based on a statement of Preston ' s , that Sir Christopher Wreu was elected Grand Master in 1684 of the Operative Grand Assembly on the death of the Earl oi Arlington .

"NOAV , we all know , " adds "Delta , " "that Sir Christopher Wren Avas not made an Accepted Mason till 1691 . " As "Delta" Avould seemingly put it , Sir Christopher Wren , according to Preston , was elected Grand Master of the Operative Grand Assembly in 1684 ; bufc we have an account of his admission at St . Paul ' s , in 1691 , into

the fraternity of adopted Masons , ergo operative and speculative Masonry are not the same , bufc distinct and separate altogether . JSOAV , to say nothing of the non sei / ai-tar of such an argument , can the facts "Delta" adduces be relied on to prove this supposed decision and contradiction ? The author oi Malta Pa . ut ; es states that Lord Arlington

Avas Grand Master in 1684 , and that Sir Christopher Wren was elected Grand Master in 1685 , so thafc great authorities differ even as to this fact . No doubt ; the author of Multa Pa-aces mentions Wren before 1691—indeed , so for back as 1661 . I agree with '' Delta" that Ave have from Aubrey , as quoted by Bro . Halliwell , the real account of Sir

Christopher Wren ' s admission into the accepted brotherhood in 1691 . But Avhat I contend for is , thafc this accepted brotherhood in 1691 was but the same with tho operative brotherhood in 1684 . . The very words which Aubrey uses—the terms he employs , the place of admission , the names of the coinitiates—all combine to show that Ave have here the

only account on which Ave can safely rely . However it may interfere with other statements , however antagonise received dates , I feel convinced myself thafc Aubrey gives us the true chronology of Sir Christopher Wren ' s admission to the secrets and niA'steries of Freemasonry .

The history of those times is still so confused , our own Masonic annals are so scanty , and , I must add , so unsatisfactory , thafc little reliance can he placed on the conflicting tradition of our OAVU historians . Aubrey ' s statement ignores , I quite admit , any previous connection of Sir Christopher Wren with the Craft—ignores , too , the claim of his assumed Grand Mastership , whether

in 1684 or 1655 , unless one is prepared to adopt " Delta ' s " hypothesis of the distinct existence then of operative and speculative Masonry . But yet Aubrey ' s account seems so straightforward and matter of fact , that unless we could suppose him to be altogether incorrect in his dates , we cannot remove the force of his contemporary witness .

But , in saying this , I by no means acquiesce in " Delta ' s " favourite assertion , that operative and speculative Masonry was , even in 1691 , altogether distinct . I may observe that neither Preston nor the author of Multa Fauces , whether their chronology be correct or not , have the slightest doubt thafc the Grand Lodge of 1717 ivas the legitimate successor of the Operative

Assembly in 1684 . All that " Delta" does establish is what I have also sought to establish , thafc our historical dates aud chronology require a careful revision—but revision is not disavowal—amendment is not destruction . " Delta , " on . the contrary , would ruthlessly sweep away all our Craft traditions previous to 1717 , aud make Masonry then the revival of an adulfc Order preserved

mysteriously in the bosom of a Templar or Hose Croix Chapter . Here we end , as Ave began , as far as the poles asunder . There is no historical difficulty in supposing thafc Sir Christopher Wreu was not admitted to our Order till 1691 , —as he did not ; die till 1723—and St . Paul's was not completed till 1710 , though " nearly completed " in

1691 . If the speculative and operative lodges were so distinct ; in 1691 , as "Delta" will have ifc , why should Sir Christopher Wreu go to St . Paul ' s—the great gathering place of Operative Masons—to be made a Speculative Mason ? Tours fraternally , February 28 th , 1863 . EBOE .

“The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine: 1863-03-07, Page 10” Masonic Periodicals Online, Library and Museum of Freemasonry, 13 May 2025, django:8000/periodicals/mmr/issues/mmr_07031863/page/10/.
  • List
  • Grid
Title Category Page
THE FREEMASONS' MAGAZINE AND THE CRAFT. Article 1
GRAND LODGE. Article 1
SCOTLAND. Article 2
ON THE ARCH AND ARCADES. Article 5
Untitled Article 8
MASONIC NOTES AND QUERIES. Article 9
CORRESPONDENCE. Article 10
THE BOYS' SCHOOL. Article 11
THE BOARD OF BENEVOLENCE. Article 11
NEW MASONIC HALL FOR MANCHESTER. Article 11
THE MASONIC MIRROR. Article 12
GRAND LODGE. Article 12
METROPOLITAN. Article 13
PROVINCIAL. Article 14
CHINA. Article 16
ROYAL ARCH. Article 16
ANCIENT AND ACCEPTED RITE. Article 16
Untitled Article 16
Poetry. Article 17
NOT LOST. Article 17
THE WEEK. Article 18
TO CORRESPONDENTS. Article 20
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Masonic Notes And Queries.

other instances of his personal strength , continued the Square , 'but the repetition of them will not be interesting to you . ' Poor Topham ! With all his strength he was as meek as a lamb , and a perfect slave at home , for his termagant helpmate led him a very unquiet life ; and , in the end , ruined him , and forced him from his dwelling . It was at this point of time that Dr . Desaguliers became his friend ancl patron ; for , as a professor of experimental philosophy , betook great interest in his performances .

He placed him in another public-house at the Hermitage , with the sign of the Ship ; ancl , after making him a Mason , established a lodge at bis house , as a means of increasing his business by the introduction of his friends . And , -I must say , the loclge was well conducted , with Bro . Desaguliers at its head as the Master ; and increased rapidly in numbers and respectability . Its cognizance was the redoubtable Thomas Topham matching his strength against that of a horsewith his feet propped by the fragment

, of a wall ; and its name , the Strong-man Lodge . Topham , bowever , unfortunately took to drinking , and the business fell into other hands ; but the lodge , prospered , and was considered a crack establishment when the poor fellow and his patron were no more . " —BOOKWOHM . MONSTER MASONIC MEETING . The centenary of the Grand Lodge of Massachusetts

was celebrated on the 21 th June , 1862 . A procession was formed of 54 » Masonic bodies , composed of 2500 brethren , with 8 bands of music ; ifc was upwards of a mile in length . In the banquetting pavilion , 3000 plates Avere laid . One ¦ thousand pounds of boned turkeys Avas an insignificant item in the bill of fare . TEMPLAR OPERATIVE CONSTITUTIONS

Are there any known Templar documents , or rules , for the governance of the . Operative Masons . The existing Constitutions are those of the Gothic builders , which style is supposed to have been introduced by the Crusaders . —A .

Correspondence.

CORRESPONDENCE .

The Editor is not responsible for the opinions expressed by Correspondents . THE ANTIQUITY OF MASONIC DEGREES . TO THE EDITOR OP THE 1 'ItEEiIASOJtS' MAGAZINE AKD 3 TASOXIG MIRROR . DEAR SIR AND BROTHER , —I should not have ventured again to trespass on your limited space , had it not been for " Delta ' s " letter in the MAGAZINE of to-day .

My answer to it is partly anticipated by your " Notice to Correspondents , " where , as " Delta" will see , you kindly correct the errata in last number , by substituting " sever " for " sneer , " which was a misprint . I hope thafc long before even "Delta" reads these words of mine , he Avill have dismissed from his mind any idea of personality .

I can , I think , safely say that my motto has been defence , not defiance , in everything that I have ventured to advance ; and I may fairly claim for these , my lucubrations , whether sound or unsound , the unchanging Interest and painstaking study of over 20 years as a Mason . Feeling thai ? some of " Delta ' s " remarks aud allusions

concerning myself may be the result of a misconception , -caused by an accidental misprint in my last , I pass them by to day , thou gh I might justly take serious exception to them , especially to one most uumasonic expressiongulled . I am , however , most anxious that our so far -friendly controversy should remain clear of anything like personal rejoinder , and therefore think it better to leave

the matter where it stands . "Delta" asks , however , one question Avhich requires a reply . " What then becomes , " he enquires , " of Ebor ' s boasted agreement between operative and accepted Masonry ?" This query is based on a statement of Preston ' s , that Sir Christopher Wreu was elected Grand Master in 1684 of the Operative Grand Assembly on the death of the Earl oi Arlington .

"NOAV , we all know , " adds "Delta , " "that Sir Christopher Wren Avas not made an Accepted Mason till 1691 . " As "Delta" Avould seemingly put it , Sir Christopher Wren , according to Preston , was elected Grand Master of the Operative Grand Assembly in 1684 ; bufc we have an account of his admission at St . Paul ' s , in 1691 , into

the fraternity of adopted Masons , ergo operative and speculative Masonry are not the same , bufc distinct and separate altogether . JSOAV , to say nothing of the non sei / ai-tar of such an argument , can the facts "Delta" adduces be relied on to prove this supposed decision and contradiction ? The author oi Malta Pa . ut ; es states that Lord Arlington

Avas Grand Master in 1684 , and that Sir Christopher Wren was elected Grand Master in 1685 , so thafc great authorities differ even as to this fact . No doubt ; the author of Multa Pa-aces mentions Wren before 1691—indeed , so for back as 1661 . I agree with '' Delta" that Ave have from Aubrey , as quoted by Bro . Halliwell , the real account of Sir

Christopher Wren ' s admission into the accepted brotherhood in 1691 . But Avhat I contend for is , thafc this accepted brotherhood in 1691 was but the same with tho operative brotherhood in 1684 . . The very words which Aubrey uses—the terms he employs , the place of admission , the names of the coinitiates—all combine to show that Ave have here the

only account on which Ave can safely rely . However it may interfere with other statements , however antagonise received dates , I feel convinced myself thafc Aubrey gives us the true chronology of Sir Christopher Wren ' s admission to the secrets and niA'steries of Freemasonry .

The history of those times is still so confused , our own Masonic annals are so scanty , and , I must add , so unsatisfactory , thafc little reliance can he placed on the conflicting tradition of our OAVU historians . Aubrey ' s statement ignores , I quite admit , any previous connection of Sir Christopher Wren with the Craft—ignores , too , the claim of his assumed Grand Mastership , whether

in 1684 or 1655 , unless one is prepared to adopt " Delta ' s " hypothesis of the distinct existence then of operative and speculative Masonry . But yet Aubrey ' s account seems so straightforward and matter of fact , that unless we could suppose him to be altogether incorrect in his dates , we cannot remove the force of his contemporary witness .

But , in saying this , I by no means acquiesce in " Delta ' s " favourite assertion , that operative and speculative Masonry was , even in 1691 , altogether distinct . I may observe that neither Preston nor the author of Multa Fauces , whether their chronology be correct or not , have the slightest doubt thafc the Grand Lodge of 1717 ivas the legitimate successor of the Operative

Assembly in 1684 . All that " Delta" does establish is what I have also sought to establish , thafc our historical dates aud chronology require a careful revision—but revision is not disavowal—amendment is not destruction . " Delta , " on . the contrary , would ruthlessly sweep away all our Craft traditions previous to 1717 , aud make Masonry then the revival of an adulfc Order preserved

mysteriously in the bosom of a Templar or Hose Croix Chapter . Here we end , as Ave began , as far as the poles asunder . There is no historical difficulty in supposing thafc Sir Christopher Wreu was not admitted to our Order till 1691 , —as he did not ; die till 1723—and St . Paul's was not completed till 1710 , though " nearly completed " in

1691 . If the speculative and operative lodges were so distinct ; in 1691 , as "Delta" will have ifc , why should Sir Christopher Wreu go to St . Paul ' s—the great gathering place of Operative Masons—to be made a Speculative Mason ? Tours fraternally , February 28 th , 1863 . EBOE .

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